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There is no pending land deal... (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Thenose
  • Start date Jan 2, 2015
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letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #71
boatang said:
Simon,
if you are still on here,
I am sure I remember that the Football League said, just before the return to the Ricoh, that they were satisfied with the evidence that they had seen of progress on the new stadium. Could they be reminded of this, as they are the ones who could most easily have stopped the whole mess of the last 2 years.
What evidence could they have possibly seen, if there is none? Or were they just taking what they though would be the path of least resistance?
Click to expand...
They must have seen those drawings on the back of a dirty napkin.
 
L

LB87ccfc

Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #72
letsallsingtogether said:
They must have seen those drawings on the back of a dirty napkin.
Click to expand...

Correct, and because the FL are just as corrupt, were happy with the evidence supplied.
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #73
RFC said:
No don't try to put words in my mouth, what I'm saying is that due to 'commercial sensitivity' they wouldn't receive a comment one way or the other. They're not obliged to, it all depends on how the question they asked was phrased!
Click to expand...

Is that because it is already full with TF cock in it?

Sorry but couldn't resist
 

Neutral Fan

Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #74
torchomatic said:
Agree on that. Although I live over that way it wouldn't be right for CCFC to be over here.
Click to expand...

Shame that not all people in Cov take the same view about RFC Franchise Wasps.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #75
Neutral Fan said:
Shame that not all people in Cov take the same view about RFC Franchise Wasps.
Click to expand...

Sadly you are sounding as deranged as RFC with every post.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #76
Neutral Fan said:
Shame that not all people in Cov take the same view about RFC Franchise Wasps.
Click to expand...

What has a Fugby club got to do with Coventry City Football Club?
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #77
Thenose said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-stadium-investigation-8373299
Click to expand...

Maybe we should send a FOI request to Sandra Garlick - she seems to know where it is
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #78
RegTheDonk said:
Maybe we should send a FOI request to Sandra Garlick - she seems to know where it is
Click to expand...

Good point. I wonder if the Coventry and Warwickshire chamber of commerce are covered by FOI law?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #79
Sensible solution is for the trust to approach the dean and ask him to approach fisher and waggott for the information and if he is satisfied accept his word
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #80
oldfiver said:
But if they cannot comment for commercial reasons but the answer is "yes" - how are they supposed to reply?

They cannot say "no comment" because that leads to speculation why they did not say "no"
Click to expand...

They do though, they point out that informnation has been witheld, and give reasons why said information has been witheld.

A flat out lie is a big no no and would see big sackings.
 
S

SimonGilbert

Telegraph Tea Boy
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #81
skybluetony176 said:
Good point. I wonder if the Coventry and Warwickshire chamber of commerce are covered by FOI law?
Click to expand...

They're not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

skybluedan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #82
RFC said:
Just because you believe everything you read in the CT, nothing to get out of by the way.

Anticipation is the key word, watch & wait!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Dont believe what you read in the CT? But believe what people write on here?
Oh the irony of it all,
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #83
Sky Blue Pete said:
Sensible solution is for the trust to approach the dean and ask him to approach fisher and waggott for the information and if he is satisfied accept his word
Click to expand...

You’re not the first person to propose using the church as an intermediary. Isn’t it just brilliant that whilst the club are boasting about their ability to communicate with fans and be “pillars of the community”, people are seriously having to suggest a priest as a go-between to see if they are telling the truth!

Tim Fisher, CCFC chairman, said: “I am not minded to comment on anything in detail until the land deal is done.” You don’t need to comment in detail Fisher, just stop being smug and provide the innocent explanation as to why all the FOI requests have drawn a blank.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #84
SimonGilbert said:
Granted - it's pretty similar, but there are a couple more organisations on the list now our FOIs have been included - Environment Agency and Dept for Culture, Media and Sport.

We have been submitting regular FOIs, and I believe the Trust have adopted a similar strategy. We ran a similar story last year.

About time for an update - and not everyone reads SBT. They should, but they don't.
Click to expand...

Fair one mate. Carry on.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #85
SimonGilbert said:
That's the beauty of the FOI Act for us journalists.

This is how Nuneaton and Bedworth chose to respond last time: “From time to time the planning service receives confidential consultations on draft proposals prior to the receipt of formal planning applications. Often these enquiries do not reach formal planning application stage.“Except where it is in the public interest to do so, the service neither confirms nor denies the existence of such enquiries.
“This should not be taken as an indication that any particular enquiry has or has not been received.”

The FOI request eventually forced them to confirm they had held talks with the club, but they were at a very early stage and nothing came of them.

Coun Harvey said: “As per our previous statement, the council’s policy, along with data protection laws, mean that we never confirm or deny speculation on conversations that may or may not have taken place between officers and third parties.
“However, in this instance the third party developer has released information that has enabled the media to deduce through a process of elimination that we have been approached.“Under those circumstances I can confirm that an enquiry has been made by a developer to council officers, however this was of a very speculative nature and at an early stage.
“Since that initial exploratory contact we have received no further approach and we are therefore not considering any proposal for any particular location.”
Click to expand...

But it was not the FOI request that led to the disclosure but the developer doing so which meant the matter was no longer confidential
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #86
martcov said:
Was there an FOI about the Wasps deal? What does 6 to 12 months mean? Either it was being discussed 12 months before or it was being discussed 6 months before. Or was it discussed between 12 and 6 months before and then nothing happened for 6 months? Make your mind up o knowledgeable one.
Click to expand...

WASPS first showed interest 2 years before the deal
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #87
oldfiver said:
But it was not the FOI request that led to the disclosure but the developer doing so which meant the matter was no longer confidential
Click to expand...

But they still replied as confidential in that earlier round in this later round they've come back with a straight no, not s confidential as the earlier round.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #88
SimonGilbert said:
They're not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

So can we just beat it out of them then?
 
S

SimonGilbert

Telegraph Tea Boy
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #89
oldfiver said:
But it was not the FOI request that led to the disclosure but the developer doing so which meant the matter was no longer confidential
Click to expand...

The second part is kind of irrelevant in terms of how the FOI request works. (It was also wrong. No developer had disclosed information. I think they got confused).

The first part is key. They couldn't deny discussions, because they had happened. They can withhold information in certain circumstances - but they have to be open about the fact they are withholding information.

Organisations cannot deliberately mislead in response to FOIs. If they do, they open themselves up to investigation by the Information Commissioner.

That's something most would be extremely eager to avoid as it can lead to criminal prosecutions and fines. https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/what-we-do/taking-action-data-protection-and-electronic-marketing/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #90
I've just realised the under 'SimonGilbert' and his info on the left hand side, his SBT position is Telegraph Tea Boy! Love it!
 
S

skybluericoh

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #91
torchomatic said:
Nice to hear a council is helping out its local football club though, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Very nice. People forget that CCC did help CCFC to finish the Ricoh. Just a shame that a hedge fund then tried to weaken the company that the council set up to finish the project and get it on the very cheap. If they had been decent they could have got it just cheaply. Still good job they (SISU) weren't interested in it anyway. Bring on the new ground timmyboy ...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #92
oldfiver said:
WASPS first showed interest 2 years before the deal
Click to expand...

So. RFC was refering to meaningful discussions. Showing interest is something else. That wasn't either his point or my point.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #93
skybluericoh said:
Very nice. People forget that CCC did help CCFC to finish the Ricoh. Just a shame that a hedge fund then tried to weaken the company that the council set up to finish the project and get it on the very cheap. If they had been decent they could have got it just cheaply. Still good job they (SISU) weren't interested in it anyway. Bring on the new ground timmyboy ...
Click to expand...

Of course if the caring council and Higgs didn't charge us £1.2m a year in rent we might never had needed to be 'rescued' by SISU.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #94
chiefdave said:
Of course if the caring council and Higgs didn't charge us £1.2m a year in rent we might never had needed to be 'rescued' by SISU.
Click to expand...

Yes they should not have bothered taking over the stadium and left us homeless :facepalm:
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #95
italiahorse said:
Yes they should not have bothered taking over the stadium and left us homeless :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Where did I say they should have done that? Pretty much any other solution anyone can think of would have been better for CCFC. CCC could have lent the club the few million they actually put in themselves so we would have retained full ownership. They could have given us a rent to buy deal. All sorts of options that didn't leave the football club paying for everything but getting nothing.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #96
chiefdave said:
Where did I say they should have done that? Pretty much any other solution anyone can think of would have been better for CCFC. CCC could have lent the club the few million they actually put in themselves so we would have retained full ownership. They could have given us a rent to buy deal. All sorts of options that didn't leave the football club paying for everything but getting nothing.
Click to expand...

Pssst, option to buy back Highfield Road
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #97
Deleted member 5849 said:
Pssst, option to buy back Highfield Road
Click to expand...

Did indeed exist, of course it would have needed financing so maybe instead of taking on the Ricoh project the council could have given the club a low interest loan to buy back HR. I'm betting they never made an offer to do anything like that.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 2, 2015
  • #98
chiefdave said:
Where did I say they should have done that? Pretty much any other solution anyone can think of would have been better for CCFC. CCC could have lent the club the few million they actually put in themselves so we would have retained full ownership. They could have given us a rent to buy deal. All sorts of options that didn't leave the football club paying for everything but getting nothing.
Click to expand...

So CCC take on all the risk and debt and then finance the club until they can afford to buy the stadium.
Got to admire your sky blue scenario.
Every CCFC fan including myself would love that to work but in reality the club could never bridge the gap once they dropped out the PL.
Should have stayed at HR
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #99
chiefdave said:
Where did I say they should have done that? Pretty much any other solution anyone can think of would have been better for CCFC. CCC could have lent the club the few million they actually put in themselves so we would have retained full ownership. They could have given us a rent to buy deal. All sorts of options that didn't leave the football club paying for everything but getting nothing.
Click to expand...

They did
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #100
bigfatronssba said:
They did
Click to expand...

I think he meant that we paid rent and it was ours after x amount of time. Wasn't it a rental deal but had to buy it on top?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #101
chiefdave said:
Where did I say they should have done that? Pretty much any other solution anyone can think of would have been better for CCFC. CCC could have lent the club the few million they actually put in themselves so we would have retained full ownership. They could have given us a rent to buy deal. All sorts of options that didn't leave the football club paying for everything but getting nothing.
Click to expand...

A bit like they have lent WASPS £14m ( £13m ? )
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #102
Deleted member 5849 said:
Pssst, option to buy back Highfield Road
Click to expand...

Highfield Road was technically not supposed to be sold for housing but a way was "found"

And it wasn't SISU who were involved
 

Sky Blue Kid

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #103
@ Oldfiver.....Very true, but SISU are the core of all the s**t since 14/12/07 No amount of shovelling is going to get them out of it either
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #104
Nick said:
I think he meant that we paid rent and it was ours after x amount of time. Wasn't it a rental deal but had to buy it on top?
Click to expand...

Exactly, if we'd seen out the full term of the lease we'd have paid £60m and yet had no access to no revenues, ACL on the other hand would have paid £21m and received access to all revenues. The council put in, from memory, £10m and Higgs paid £6.5m (although that was not all new money coming in). I don't see how anyone can argue we didn't get the worst of the deal by a long way. Our football club was basically financing other organisations ownership.

We know CCC can access borrowing at below market rate, they have done that for a now Wasps owned ACL so why couldn't they have done it for us? They could have provisioned a loan for £21m and given us full ownership of ACL. Given a lower interest rate and longer repayment term instead of £1.2m a year in rent we would have paid less than half that, and instead of receiving no revenues we would have received all of them. Had that happened there's a chance we would never of needed SISU to 'rescue' us, never had to go on rent strike therefore no administration and no move to Sixfields.

oldfiver said:
A bit like they have lent WASPS £14m ( £13m ? )
Click to expand...

Italia seems to think they couldn't do that due to the risk of non-payment but they don't seem to have a problem lending the money when ACL is owned by a traditionally London based rugby club losing millions a year, how is lending to us a risk but not to them?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 3, 2015
  • #105
chiefdave said:
Of course if the caring council and Higgs didn't charge us £1.2m a year in rent we might never had needed to be 'rescued' by SISU.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, do you know how much SISU/Arvo take out in combined interest and management fees? Is it less than the extortionate ACL rent? Is CCFC/Otium ( the club ) on an equivalent to a rent to buy scheme ( in this case are we repaying the loans and Investors through management fees and one day becoming clear of debt and "free") with SISU/Otium? Or are we just paying interest and management fees for no future return - i.e. for ever?
 
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