The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (54 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

but it was obvious from the start that this was how the EU were going to approach things

Before that even. I’m sure we all remember the leave campaign saying how we need to leave because the EU is a protectionist organisation. The EU’s stance really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

 

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[Astute]

I know it's a challenge for you to understand but the website deleted the orginal article after it was looking positive and the webmasters of the website redirected that article to the new one saying that it wasn't so positive.

It's not that hard to understand.

Which part of my post makes you say or think I don't understand?

When it looked like they were negotiating a deal you said it proves those wrong that the EU doesn't want a deal. But when I read it the link showed they are not interested in making a deal....at least just yet.

 

[Astute]

Perhaps it's due to the UK wishing to align itself more to American standards to secure a trade deal? This would mean there would need to be checks to ensure that banned goods were not entering into the EU.

It would be fine if the UK agreed to maintain its current standards in the long-term but that we all know that won't be happening.

So where do you take this from?

A perhaps with no foundations.

 

[Sick Boy]

So where do you take this from?

A perhaps with no foundations.

It's going to be a key point as to why it is such an important issue and why they would be looking to keep NI in the SM and CU.

“We are just saying that on the island there are two countries, we need to fund the capacity for certain issues relating to the internal market and customs union, that we need to ensure the Good Friday agreement can function ... We need to ensure there is regulatory consistency, alignment.”

EU publishes plan to keep Northern Ireland in customs union

 

[Astute]

We will have to abide by the same EU regulations even if there are no tariffs in order to avoid border controls. We haven’t got to trade negotiations yet as we will not agree to applying EU regulations. The discussion is about regulatory frameworks. At the moment we have a FTA on tariffs and regulations. You cannot get better. It is called the single market and customs union. But the UK does not want it because of people like you. You won’t accept the 4 freedoms which make the SM and CU. No one in the EU wants to alter the rules to suit Astute and Co‘s dislike of freedom of movement. The UK and Astute are saying, if you want to sell to us, you must change the rules. And you call that dictating to the UK? Jesus wept.

Yes Mr EU. Straight out of the EU rule book they don't keep to themselves.

So answer the same question I have asked you countless times. Would the problem of Ireland be much easier sorting out a trade deal than sorting out the problem with Ireland not knowing what kind of trade deal there will be?

If you disagree I will know that you are just coming out with crap and excuses and will let you argue with yourself from now.

 

[Astute]

1 in 10 is less than 1 in 8.

12% is 1 in 10?

 

[Astute]

but it was obvious from the start that this was how the EU were going to approach things, whether you me or anyone else agrees or disagrees with their stance is irrelevant.

If the government have been relying on the EU taking a different approach than they're even stupider than I though. From the outset, when people were talking about German car manufacturers lobbying the German government the BDI said they wouldn't allow that to happen.

From the start was after the vote.

If I knew then what I know now there is a good chance I would have voted leave. I detest bullies and bullying.

 

[Astute]

Before that even. I’m sure we all remember the leave campaign saying how we need to leave because the EU is a protectionist organisation. The EU’s stance really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

So does that make it right?

Dies that give them the right to dictate to us?

 

[Sick Boy]

Which part of my post makes you say or think I don't understand?

When it looked like they were negotiating a deal you said it proves those wrong that the EU doesn't want a deal. But when I read it the link showed they are not interested in making a deal....at least just yet.

The origal link was to the first version of the article when several news sources that a deal had been struck.

Raab then flew put to Brussels to try and resolve some outstanding issues and they broke down.

The website that article was on then deleted their original article and wrote the new updated one.

They then redirected to url of the original article to the updated one.

 

[Astute]

It's going to be a key point as to why it is such an important issue and why they would be looking to keep NI in the SM and CU.

“We are just saying that on the island there are two countries, we need to fund the capacity for certain issues relating to the internal market and customs union, that we need to ensure the Good Friday agreement can function ... We need to ensure there is regulatory consistency, alignment.”

EU publishes plan to keep Northern Ireland in customs union

It would all be about negotiating going forward and what would cause problems in the future.

But we are stuck at stage 1 which is Ireland. And I said from day 1 that we wouldn't be able to solve it without knowing what any sort of trade deal looks like. It was designed to make it fail.

Does this make you happy?

 

[Sick Boy]

So does that make it right?

Dies that give them the right to dictate to us?

It shouldn't come as a surprise, it was always going to be the case that it would have the clout in negotiations, despite what was predicted on here and by ministers.

Suck it up and get used to it, it's going to be the way in trade deals with the likes of the USA as well.

 

[Sick Boy]

It would all be about negotiating going forward and what would cause problems in the future.

But we are stuck at stage 1 which is Ireland. And I said from day 1 that we wouldn't be able to solve it without knowing what any sort of trade deal looks like. It was designed to make it fail.

Does this make you happy?

No it wasn't at all, it's due to the issue of Ireland being so complex and the Good Friday Agreement. Most people on the mainland are completely ignorant about Northern Ireland.

How can it be based on 'what a trade deal looks like', especially with the UK, which will inevitably be reducing standards in the future?

The fact you think all we it needs is a 'Free Trade Deal' to maintain an open border while not being aligned in regulations is hilarious.

 

[Astute]

The origal link was to the first version of the article when several news sources that a deal had been struck.

Raab then flew put to Brussels to try and resolve some outstanding issues and they broke down.

The website that article was on then deleted their original article and wrote the new updated one.

They then redirected to url of the original article to the updated one.

Yes I know.

On the first update you commented that people were wrong to say the EU didn't want to negotiate.

Is this correct so far?

Then they changed the story so you could see that the EU doesn't want a deal.

Is this correct so far?

 

[skybluetony176]

So does that make it right?

Dies that give them the right to dictate to us?

What’s right got to do with it? It’s the way it was always going to be. We knew that when we voted leave.

Dictate? Stop being childish. We’ve triggered article 50 dictating that we’re leaving. The red lines were always there from the off from the EU. Nothing has changed since the day before the referendum. This is just the reality of brexit and the reality of what people voted for. Deal with it. Like an adult.

 

[Astute]

It shouldn't come as a surprise, it was always going to be the case that it would have the clout in negotiations, despite what was predicted on here and by ministers.

Suck it up and get used to it, it's going to be the way in trade deals with the likes of the USA as well.

I said as soon as the order for the so called negotiations came out that the order was wrong and that I thought that they didn't want to negotiate. They are trying to force us to stay in the EU.

Suck it up?

Would prefer to leave with no deal.

Their idea of a deal is taking what they can from us and making it hard for us to make deals elsewhere in the world. There is no way it will get passed through the UK government. No side would agree to it. So we might as well agree to a no deal ASAP.

And that would cause pandemonium in the EU. They have trillions invested in London. Their rules mean it would all have to be removed. But it isn't like a bank account. There isn't money just sitting there. I would guess it would cause the EU to collapse. Good news for those who detest bullies and bullying.

 

[Astute]

No it wasn't at all, it's due to the issue of Ireland being so complex and the Good Friday Agreement. Most people on the mainland are completely ignorant about Northern Ireland.

How can it be based on 'what a trade deal looks like', especially with the UK, which will inevitably be reducing standards in the future?

The fact you think all we it needs is a 'Free Trade Deal' to maintain an open border while not being aligned in regulations is hilarious.

Where did you get this false information from?

So are you saying a free trade deal would not make the Ireland situation much easier?

The rest is hearsay. A favourite tactic of those who are pro EU.

 

[Astute]

What’s right got to do with it? It’s the way it was always going to be. We knew that when we voted leave.

Dictate? Stop being childish. We’ve triggered article 50 dictating that we’re leaving. The red lines were always there from the off from the EU. Nothing has changed since the day before the referendum. This is just the reality of brexit and the reality of what people voted for. Deal with it. Like an adult.

Good morning UKIP voting EU lover Tony.

We have been dictated to for years. Now it is obvious even to the blind. So should we stay in the EU just because we are getting bullied and dictated to?

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes I know.

On the first update you commented that people were wrong to say the EU didn't want to negotiate.

Is this correct so far?

Then they changed the story so you could see that the EU doesn't want a deal.

Is this correct so far?

Haha that's one way to spin it if you were a rabid Brexiteer.

 

[Sick Boy]

Where did you get this false information from?

So are you saying a free trade deal would not make the Ireland situation much easier?

The rest is hearsay. A favourite tactic of those who are pro EU.

I am going to presume you are on the wind up as this is getting ridiculous and you clearly don't understand the issues

 

[Astute]

Haha that's one way to spin it if you were a rabid Brexiteer.

So you didn't say that?

 

[Sick Boy]

I said as soon as the order for the so called negotiations came out that the order was wrong and that I thought that they didn't want to negotiate. They are trying to force us to stay in the EU.

Suck it up?

Would prefer to leave with no deal.

Their idea of a deal is taking what they can from us and making it hard for us to make deals elsewhere in the world. There is no way it will get passed through the UK government. No side would agree to it. So we might as well agree to a no deal ASAP.

And that would cause pandemonium in the EU. They have trillions invested in London. Their rules mean it would all have to be removed. But it isn't like a bank account. There isn't money just sitting there. I would guess it would cause the EU to collapse. Good news for those who detest bullies and bullying.

They aren't trying to make the UK stay in. The fact that you think a trade deal should negotiated before the Withdrawal agreement is a classic.

It would only work if the UK agreed to alignment with the EU to ensure an open border, and if it tried to deviate away from these it would then make the initial trade talks a huge waste of time.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you didn't say that?

I have no idea what you're on about but you clearly have a warped perspective on it. Perhaps the UK doesn't want to make a deal?

 

[Astute]

I am going to presume you are on the wind up as this is getting ridiculous and you clearly don't understand the issues

So why didn't you answer to the full answer I gave yesterday? Not one comment from anyone.

Explain one thing. How can we decide where borders will be and what they will have to do at borders if we don't know what they will have to do at the borders?

 

[Astute]

I have no idea what you're on about but you clearly have a warped perspective on it. Perhaps the UK doesn't want to make a deal?

Post of the year

 

[Sick Boy]

So why didn't you answer to the full answer I gave yesterday? Not one comment from anyone.

Explain one thing. How can we decide where borders will be and what they will have to do at borders if we don't know what they will have to do at the borders?

Exactly, so the idea of negotiating a trade deal before a withdrawal agreement is pointless. The issue isn't about trade but regulations; how can you have an open border between 2 countries when one has goods that are banned in the other?

 

[Sick Boy]

Post of the year

I am just emulating what you do. You take the EU not caving into British demands to mean it doesn't want a deal, rhetoric straight from the UK tabloids.

 

[Astute]

Exactly, so the idea of negotiating a trade deal before a withdrawal agreement is pointless. The issue isn't about trade but regulations; how can you have an open border between 2 countries when one has goods that are banned in the other?

Why Can’t U.K. Solve the Irish Border Problem in Brexit?

Progress on the Irish border issue will require both sides to start talking trade | Open Europe

 

[Astute]

I am just emulating what you do. You take the EU not caving into British demands to mean it doesn't want a deal, rhetoric straight from the UK tabloids.

Is it?

So when did the EU try to negotiate?

 

[Sick Boy]

Is it?

So when did the EU try to negotiate?

They've been negotiating for months with the UK, including the last week.

It's going to be interesting when you finally realise the likes of the USA are going to be far more aggressive in their demands compared to the EU, especially as they know that they will be able to dictate terms in their favour.

 

[clint van damme]

From the start was after the vote.

If I knew then what I know now there is a good chance I would have voted leave. I detest bullies and bullying.

but the rights and wrongs of it are irrelevant. we've been lead up the garden path by our politicians who should have anticipated this.
It was glaringly obvious what was going to happen.

 

[Astute]

They've been negotiating for months with the UK, including the last week.

It's going to be interesting when you finally realise the likes of the USA are going to be far more aggressive in their demands compared to the EU, especially as they know that they will be able to dictate terms in their favour.

They have just had a meeting that went nowhere. Negotiated? If there had been negotiations they would have got somewhere.

 

[Astute]

but the rights and wrongs of it are irrelevant. we've been lead up the garden path by our politicians who should have anticipated this.
It was glaringly obvious what was going to happen.

Yet who disagrees with this?

It doesn't mean in any way we should be dictated to. Full stop.

 

[clint van damme]

Yet who disagrees with this?

It doesn't mean in any way we should be dictated to. Full stop.

Which means we'll leave with no deal.
That will hurt us.

 

[clint van damme]

They have just had a meeting that went nowhere. Negotiated? If there had been negotiations they would have got somewhere.

so it's OK for the DUP, with 10 sitting MPs, to be totally inflexible but not a block of 27 countries?
Like I say, this should have been anticipated. Seems like the government was hoping on the EU bending over backwards to accommodate us.
Look to the start of the thread, I said one of my main reasons for voting remain was I didn't trust the tories to be able to deliver Brexit successfully, unfortunately they're actually performing worse than I could have imagined.

 

[Astute]

Which means we'll leave with no deal.
That will hurt us.

Which is what I have been saying.

It will hurt us. It will hurt millions throughout the EU. And if they don't do anything to solve their London problem because of their rules they have stated they will be hit much harder than us. Their rules stop them from taking their business to another city outside the EU. And no city inside the EU has the capability to take over at short notice. I don't think it would even be possible before the end of March.

They either don't understand how serious the situation is, are still just playing hard ball for as long as they can....or the worse scenario is they don't care about the damage caused as long as it damages us.