The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (19 Viewers)

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 24, 2018

I'm enjoying this idea that the eu enriches the citizens of all its nations......ha.

Yep it's true, Bulgaria, Romania, greece etc. Are all a little richer since joining the eu......but relative to the eu primary nations, they are becoming poorer by the year.....

Boiled, condensed and precipitated exploitation.

Kingokings204 · Mar 24, 2018

shmmeee said:
Well yeah, that’s the nature of a free trade area. It also makes its citizens richer than the alternative and is more effective at tackling things like climate change and tax avoidance than a groupnof atomised competitive nations.

You could argue the same about MPs being bound by treaties, were still members of the WTO, NATO, etc. It’s basic social contract stuff, trade a little agency for a little safety and prosperity.

It’s not free trade, we pay around 20b a year to the EU. Certainly not free.

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Tax avoidance? What about Luxembourg or even closer to home Jersey? Who was the president of Luxembourg whilst blatant tax avoidance was ongoing?

There is no president of Luxemburg. It is a Grand Duchy.

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
It’s not free trade, we pay around 20b a year to the EU. Certainly not free.

More like 10 bn.

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I'm enjoying this idea that the eu enriches the citizens of all its nations......ha.

Yep it's true, Bulgaria, Romania, greece etc. Are all a little richer since joining the eu......but relative to the eu primary nations, they are becoming poorer by the year.....

Boiled, condensed and precipitated exploitation.

Really? Where do you get your „facts“ from? C.A. or Breitbart?

fernandopartridge · Mar 24, 2018

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I'm enjoying this idea that the eu enriches the citizens of all its nations......ha.

Yep it's true, Bulgaria, Romania, greece etc. Are all a little richer since joining the eu......but relative to the eu primary nations, they are becoming poorer by the year.....

Boiled, condensed and precipitated exploitation.

Yep. How exactly is it beneficial to extract their educated youth to provide cheap labour in the richer countries? Exactly whom does it benefit?

fernandopartridge · Mar 24, 2018

martcov said:
There is no president of Luxemburg. It is a Grand Duchy.

Whatever, it's got Juncker's fingerprints all over it

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

You can tell Brexit is going down by the amount of BS flying around. It must be difficult to slag Corbyn off at the same time as saying the EU is a capitalist club and the EUSSR. Full time disinformation.

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Whatever, it's got Juncker's fingerprints all over it

What is the current policy and who has Crown Dependencies where people can stash their ill gotten gains?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 24, 2018

martcov said:
Really? Where do you get your „facts“ from? C.A. or Breitbart?

The figures are out there and freely available...gross, per capita, cost of living etc.. ...which ever way you look at it...its clear to see....unless you don't wanna see it of course?

fernandopartridge · Mar 24, 2018

martcov said:
What is the current policy and who has Crown Dependencies where people can stash their ill gotten gains?

I referenced that in my first post you berk. Why has the EU done nothing about Jersey since 1975?

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
I referenced that in my first post you berk. Why has the EU done nothing about Jersey since 1975?

I know for a fact that they have clamped down. I used to be a partner in a Jerey off shore company. Jersey is Bailiwick.

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
The figures are out there and freely available...gross, per capita, cost of living etc.. ...which ever way you look at it...its clear to see....unless you don't wanna see it of course?

I was in Romania before they were in the EU. They are a lot better off now.

fernandopartridge · Mar 24, 2018

martcov said:
I was in Romania before they were in the EU. They are a lot better off now.

Nothing like facts

martcov · Mar 24, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Nothing like facts

No.

skybluetony176 · Mar 24, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
I referenced that in my first post you berk. Why has the EU done nothing about Jersey since 1975?

Because it’s not part of the EU. There is nothing that they can do. Same as the Isle of Man.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
No.

More lies from the resident Eu troll

https://www.etuc.org/press/workers-7-eu-countries-worse-today-8-years-ago#.Wrbp0GKnyEc

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
More lies from the resident Eu troll

https://www.etuc.org/press/workers-7-eu-countries-worse-today-8-years-ago#.Wrbp0GKnyEc

2008 was the year of the world wide crash. The years before had seen a massive wage rise in some Eastern European countries as the they recovered from communism. The countries that had the fastest wage rises were hit the hardest. Such as Estonia. It depends on which year you start your calculation. You can get the result you want.

Kingokings204 · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
More like 10 bn.

20b gross. 10b net. Still not free trade is it?

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

One view from Bulgaria:

„Despite the slow progress, we are happier than a decade ago or so it seems. Compared to ten years ago, a larger percentage of Bulgarians and Romanians are satisfied with the lives they lead, as the Eurobarometer public opinion reports from 2007 and 2016 show.“

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
20b gross
. 10b net. Still not free trade is it?

What percentage of our GPD is that?

What percentage of our GDP is trade in the CU and SM?

What percentage of our GDP is fishing out of interest?

Ashdown · Mar 25, 2018

Are you still seeing Nazi's on every street corner Mart ??

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
More lies from the resident Eu troll

https://www.etuc.org/press/workers-7-eu-countries-worse-today-8-years-ago#.Wrbp0GKnyEc

„The minimum salary in Romania rose ten times its nominal value in less than 20 years. This helps to explain the transformation that the Romanian economy is facing, attracting a number of companies, investors and immigrants to the country.“

Depends when you start counting. Wages growing now.

Ashdown · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
One view from Bulgaria:

„Despite the slow progress, we are happier than a decade ago or so it seems. Compared to ten years ago, a larger percentage of Bulgarians and Romanians are satisfied with the lives they lead, as the Eurobarometer public opinion reports from 2007 and 2016 show.“

What a pile of crap, my mate has 3 properties in Bulgaria, he has laughed so much at how much of OUR EU money has been pumped into this former Axis country to build up their infrastructure.........just whilst ours has been falling apart at the seams !! They have some lovely Ski resorts now for mainly Germans to attend, all furnished and paid for by EU funding.

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
More lies from the resident Eu troll

https://www.etuc.org/press/workers-7-eu-countries-worse-today-8-years-ago#.Wrbp0GKnyEc

„Average net wages in Romania increased by a real 9.5% y/y in Q4 2017, according to bne IntelliNewscalculations based on statistics office data.

Much slower rates are expected starting January 2018, after the government made broad income taxation and social security contribution reforms — although major (and unrealistic) wage hikes are still being promised by the ruling coalition as of March.

The 9.5% y/y rise in Q4 is a very robust rate in absolute terms, but still the weakest performance in two and a half years.“

Plenty of lies around as you point out.

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Ashdown said:
What a pile of crap, my mate has 3 properties in Bulgaria, he has laughed so much at how much of OUR EU money has been pumped into this former Axis country to build up their infrastructure.........just whilst ours has been falling apart at the seams !! They have some lovely Ski resorts now for mainly Germans to attend, all furnished and paid for by EU funding.

They are doing well as the EU has improved the EU. The % of „our money“ compared to our GDP funding Bulgaria is negligible.

The more these countries grow, the better for us. Peace and prosperity in Europe benefits us immensely.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
„The minimum salary in Romania rose ten times its nominal value in less than 20 years. This helps to explain the transformation that the Romanian economy is facing, attracting a number of companies, investors and immigrants to the country.“

Depends when you start counting. Wages growing now.

Well no as you said they were better off when they joined the EU which is why I chose 10 years - that’s when they’ve been in the Eu

I’m just exposing your lie that’s all

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Ashdown said:
What a pile of crap, my mate has 3 properties in Bulgaria, he has laughed so much at how much of OUR EU money has been pumped into this former Axis country to build up their infrastructure.........just whilst ours has been falling apart at the seams !! They have some lovely Ski resorts now for mainly Germans to attend, all furnished and paid for by EU funding.

Are the ski resorts free for Germans?

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
Well no as you said they were better off when they joined the EU which is why I chose 10 years - that’s when they’ve been in the Eu

I’m just exposing your lie that’s all

You chose 10 years, which is correct, but you forgot to except 2008 and 2009 where the weakest countries got hit the worst by the world recession. Apart from that Bulgaria, as an example, has seen continuous wage growth. As with all these recovering countries the wealth and wage growth is concentrated in the large cities.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
They are doing well as the EU has improved the EU. The % of „our money“ compared to our GDP funding Bulgaria is negligible.

The more these countries grow, the better for us. Peace and prosperity in Europe benefits us immensely.

Read some articles on what Bulgarians think. The big con is that Eu membership means increased industrialisation and employment purely as wages are outrageously low. Governments remain corrupt and people remain poor.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
You chose 10 years, which is correct, but you forgot to except 2008 and 2009 where the weakest countries got hit the worst by the world recession. Apart from that Bulgaria, as an example, has seen continuous wage growth. As with all these recovering countries the wealth and wage growth is concentrated in the large cities.

You said better since the Eu - just showing your lies for your Nazi brethren that’s all

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Ashdown said:
Are you still seeing Nazi's on every street corner Mart ??

No, not in my area. We had the least AFD votes in the whole state in my area and I banned the Nazi football hooligans from my pub. So we are Nazi free... at the moment...

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
You said better since the Eu - just showing your lies for your Nazi brethren that’s all

Yes. Technically you are right, but you are twisting the facts to suit your argument and your quote is from the unions who have an agenda. The reality is now and the last 5 years even if there was a big blip 10 years ago.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2018

martcov said:
Yes. Technically you are right, but you are twisting the facts to suit your argument and your quote is from the unions who have an agenda. The reality is now and the last 5 years even if there was a big blip 10 years ago.

So you are saying that a decline had nothing to do with the Eu but subsequent increase from a low base (which happens in every country post collapse) does.

That’s not true is it? How’s the construction industry and health systems doing over there?

martcov · Mar 25, 2018

Grendel said:
Read some articles on what Bulgarians think. The big con is that Eu membership means increased industrialisation and employment purely as wages are outrageously low. Governments remain corrupt and people remain poor.

I thought investment and jobs were good things. You are right about corruption, but that has been endemic since the communist era. It has to be fought.

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