The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Such a big issue that reading the article was the first time I realised it had changed in the first place!
Same. Maybe I’ve just got too many important things going on in my life to be bothered by so something so irrelevant.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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True and obvious.....but it wont stop the morons parroting shit like "they know what they voted for".....which in itself is deeply ironic for those that voted to remain within a expansionist neo-liberal project in which they have next to no say in matters....
We have a brexit that we didn’t apparently vote for (that’s according to prominent brexiteers by the way not me, I think we got exactly what we voted for) and tax rises we voted in a majority government to ensure wouldn’t happen. What say do we exactly have by leaving?
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
True and obvious.....but it wont stop the morons parroting shit like "they know what they voted for".....which in itself is deeply ironic for those that voted to remain within a expansionist neo-liberal project in which they have next to no say in matters....
As opposed to those that voted for an isolationist libertarian project in which they have next to no say in matters?
 
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skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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I'm not too sure that's likely. You seem to spend half of it posting links into this thread.
Okay, let me put it another way. When I’m in the pub having a drink with whoever there’s enough going on in my life that I don’t feel the need to inspect a glass to see if it has a CE mark instead of a crown to feel like I’ve had a victory in life. If it’s a victory it’s a hollow one, it means absolutely fuck all. Like fish being happier, or the colour of a passport.
 

PVA

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Apr 22, 2011
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I presume the leavers living over in Spain are perfectly understanding of this, given their fondness of kicking foreigners out of a country


 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Just a thought. With Boris delaying brexit again does this mean that the only people who have delivered brexit is the EU.
 

CCFCSteve

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Aug 11, 2011
3,227
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Still not taking back control

I don’t think we ever want much in the way of trade barriers or as little as possible outside CU/single market. It was probably as much tit for tat as the EU wanted to protect the bloc (understandable as it’s a trade bloc, or should be) so we would apply same trade rules here. We want it as streamlined as possible. Always said that after trade deal there should be a year or so for businesses and logistics to acclimatise. We’ve just done that anyway, EU hasnt.

I’m with Shmmeee on this but could never say it before for fear of being told
I’m not owning my vote 😊 but five years after brexit a lot of these issues aren’t brexit but poor planning and implementation by government with a chunk of covid thrown in ie the hgv driver shortage wouldnt have been much of an issue without covid by all accounts (delayed tests/licensing), the profession has not attracting younger people in because of shit wages and conditions (plugging gap with cheap foreign labour) and the government has the ability to flex migration rules to attract certain professions…what any country should have in a normal world ! If they haven’t done so, that’s down that’s down to them

Johnson will live or die by the perceived success of brexit and levelling up, covid aside.

Edit - if EU had ever offered frictionless trade under current EU rules and regs (not having to follow their future amends) without unfettered freedom of movement we would’ve snapped their hand off. Never going to happen though and will damage both economies because of it
 

Sick Boy

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Sep 29, 2008
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Verona, Italy
IMO, it’s inevitable that the England and Wales will end up rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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IMO, it’s inevitable that the England and Wales will end up rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union.
Maybe, but that is quite some time away. If we did apply to rejoin we'd have worse terms than when we left. Taking on the Euro would be a prerequisite and we wouldn't have the same rebates we had before. Even though I voted to remain, rejoining on different terms is quite a different thing.

We had a pretty decent deal and influence and we've thrown that away for a load of empty promises and a rhetoric that all our problems were down to EU citizens taking all the jobs whilst simultaneously bleeding the country dry with benefit claims.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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I don’t think we ever want much in the way of trade barriers or as little as possible outside CU/single market. It was probably as much tit for tat as the EU wanted to protect the bloc (understandable as it’s a trade bloc, or should be) so we would apply same trade rules here. We want it as streamlined as possible. Always said that after trade deal there should be a year or so for businesses and logistics to acclimatise. We’ve just done that anyway, EU hasnt.

I’m with Shmmeee on this but could never say it before for fear of being told
I’m not owning my vote 😊 but five years after brexit a lot of these issues aren’t brexit but poor planning and implementation by government with a chunk of covid thrown in ie the hgv driver shortage wouldnt have been much of an issue without covid by all accounts (delayed tests/licensing), the profession has not attracting younger people in because of shit wages and conditions (plugging gap with cheap foreign labour) and the government has the ability to flex migration rules to attract certain professions…what any country should have in a normal world ! If they haven’t done so, that’s down that’s down to them

Johnson will live or die by the perceived success of brexit and levelling up, covid aside.

Edit - if EU had ever offered frictionless trade under current EU rules and regs (not having to follow their future amends) without unfettered freedom of movement we would’ve snapped their hand off. Never going to happen though and will damage both economies because of it
Quite a few of us had a very strong feeling that the planning and execution would be a complete fuck-up from the start.
 
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skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Maybe, but that is quite some time away. If we did apply to rejoin we'd have worse terms than when we left. Taking on the Euro would be a prerequisite and we wouldn't have the same rebates we had before. Even though I voted to remain, rejoining on different terms is quite a different thing.

We had a pretty decent deal and influence and we've thrown that away for a load of empty promises and a rhetoric that all our problems were down to EU citizens taking all the jobs whilst simultaneously bleeding the country dry with benefit claims.
Not strictly true. We don’t have to join as full EU members. We can apply to join the EEA, the DCFTA, do bilateral agreements like Switzerland or have the best of both worlds (as one Tory MP put it) and have the same arrangement as a quarter of the UK, Northern Ireland.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
28,095
12,199
313
I don’t think we ever want much in the way of trade barriers or as little as possible outside CU/single market. It was probably as much tit for tat as the EU wanted to protect the bloc (understandable as it’s a trade bloc, or should be) so we would apply same trade rules here. We want it as streamlined as possible. Always said that after trade deal there should be a year or so for businesses and logistics to acclimatise. We’ve just done that anyway, EU hasnt.

I’m with Shmmeee on this but could never say it before for fear of being told
I’m not owning my vote 😊 but five years after brexit a lot of these issues aren’t brexit but poor planning and implementation by government with a chunk of covid thrown in ie the hgv driver shortage wouldnt have been much of an issue without covid by all accounts (delayed tests/licensing), the profession has not attracting younger people in because of shit wages and conditions (plugging gap with cheap foreign labour) and the government has the ability to flex migration rules to attract certain professions…what any country should have in a normal world ! If they haven’t done so, that’s down that’s down to them

Johnson will live or die by the perceived success of brexit and levelling up, covid aside.

Edit - if EU had ever offered frictionless trade under current EU rules and regs (not having to follow their future amends) without unfettered freedom of movement we would’ve snapped their hand off. Never going to happen though and will damage both economies because of it
Worth pointing out that the poor planning was undertaken by the same crowd that sold brexit. Listen to idiots like this and side with them at your peril. Just look at the people telling you it was a good idea, the rogues gallery of elitism, idiots, grifters, tax dodgers etc selling it should have been reason enough to know it was a bad idea from the concept.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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Not strictly true. We don’t have to join as full EU members. We can apply to join the EEA, the DCFTA, do bilateral agreements like Switzerland or have the best of both worlds (as one Tory MP put it) and have the same arrangement as a quarter of the UK, Northern Ireland.
I meant if we reapplied to be full members, which I can't see happening for a very, very long time.
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Edit - if EU had ever offered frictionless trade under current EU rules and regs (not having to follow their future amends) without unfettered freedom of movement we would’ve snapped their hand off. Never going to happen though and will damage both economies because of it
Can you clarify this? I thought the point of Brexit was to enable regulatory divergence. Are you saying that trade friction shouldn’t have come in until one of us diverged in that area?

I can see the appeal. Of course whining that the EU want to make membership of the EU as attractive as possible is a little silly.
 

Sick Boy

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Sep 29, 2008
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Verona, Italy
Maybe, but that is quite some time away. If we did apply to rejoin we'd have worse terms than when we left. Taking on the Euro would be a prerequisite and we wouldn't have the same rebates we had before. Even though I voted to remain, rejoining on different terms is quite a different thing.

We had a pretty decent deal and influence and we've thrown that away for a load of empty promises and a rhetoric that all our problems were down to EU citizens taking all the jobs whilst simultaneously bleeding the country dry with benefit claims.
Why would the country have to take on the Euro? I mean something similar to EEA membership.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Edit - if EU had ever offered frictionless trade under current EU rules and regs (not having to follow their future amends) without unfettered freedom of movement we would’ve snapped their hand off. Never going to happen though and will damage both economies because of it
It’s without doubt damaging our economy. Off the top of my head hasn’t Germany’s exports to is grown since 2016 whereas ours has dropped? Ireland has reported growth with the UK over the last 12 months as have other EU countries. Any losses the EU may have suffered (not really reading that there’s any) is shared, as project fear predicted our losses are far far bigger and a hit we take 100% on our own.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Why would the country have to take on the Euro? I mean something similar to EEA membership.
I think he’s talking about full membership. Any new EU members who join do so on the understanding that they’ll join the EURO at some stage, we along with Denmark had a veto on joining the EURO. We lost our veto when we left so if we ever do rejoin as full EU members basically brexits lasting legacy will be the scrapping of the pound and the adoption of the EURO.
 
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PVA

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Apr 22, 2011
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On track? On track! Remind me Mr Frost, when did we leave the EU?

Nice of you to have given the EU another 9 months of competitive advantage over the UK though.

Good work.

"Meanwhile, some EU officials suspect Britain’s border control regime is not yet fully ready for the new regime, although Frost insisted the government was “on track” to deliver the new systems.
Under Frost’s proposals, customs declarations and controls will be introduced on January 1 2022 as planned, but safety and security declarations will not be needed until July 1 2022."
 

Sick Boy

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I think he’s talking about full membership. Any new EU members who join do so on the understanding that they’ll join the EURO at some stage, we along with Denmark had a veto on joining the EURO. We lost our veto when we left so if we ever do rejoin as full EU members basically brexits lasting legacy will be the scrapping of the pound and the adoption of the EURO.
Yeah I’m aware of that but that’s something different to rejoining the SM and CU.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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On track? On track! Remind me Mr Frost, when did we leave the EU?

Nice of you to have given the EU another 9 months of competitive advantage over the UK though.

Good work.

"Meanwhile, some EU officials suspect Britain’s border control regime is not yet fully ready for the new regime, although Frost insisted the government was “on track” to deliver the new systems.
Under Frost’s proposals, customs declarations and controls will be introduced on January 1 2022 as planned, but safety and security declarations will not be needed until July 1 2022."
Remember when we held all the cards. We’re now postponing the implementation of the oven ready deal because the man who negotiated admits it’s gash and is now looking to renegotiate it. Thank god the EU is implementing brexit from their side otherwise it wouldn’t have been delivered at all. All hail the EU, saviours of brexit.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Why do you assume they voted leave?
Go on some of the expat forums. There was an awful lot of them who voted for it. I couldn’t say hand on heart it was the majority but it was at least in line with how people voted in the uk dependent upon age. You’ll also see that in the majority of cases the people being asked to leave are ones who took exception to being asked to apply for residency, surrender their UK license for a Spanish one etc. Basically being treated like a foreigner after voting to be treated like a foreigner.

(edit) should add I’m specifically talking about expats who retired to Spain and the so called starlings who voted leave and like to spend the winter months in the Costa’s.
 
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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Why would the country have to take on the Euro? I mean something similar to EEA membership.
If we reapplied for full membership the EU would insist that we had to take it on before even considering. They'd never let us back in on the deal we had when we left. They'd have to set a precedent that it's not worth leaving. If they just let us rejoin with the perks we had when we left others would just think they'd have a go at it alone if they could just rejoin as if nothing had happened.
 

JAM See

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Apr 29, 2017
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Around 8 years ago I used to work with a guy over here who voted leave - makes no sense whatsoever that someone who doesn’t even live in the country could vote on it while EU nationals paying taxes weren’t.
Where's 'here'?
 

Hertsccfc

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Apr 29, 2018
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Around 8 years ago I used to work with a guy over here who voted leave - makes no sense whatsoever that someone who doesn’t even live in the country could vote on it while EU nationals paying taxes weren’t.
Was scandalous that EU nationals here couldn't vote