The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Wonder if any of this is at least partially tied into the leak prior to second lockdown
If Cummings didn’t get the push for his antics during lockdown, I can’t see why he would now.

I wonder if it isn’t the Brexit Boys jumping ship before reality hits TBH. The time where you can bullshit and bluster is very quickly coming to an end. Bidens election seems to have given Johnson a kick up the arse now he doesn’t have a Brexit supporter in the White House.

I suspect you’re about to see London Mayor era Johnson again and the Vote Leave lot don’t fit with that.

Which, for the record, I’ll take. Short a GE tomorrow to get someone competent in. London Mayor Johnson is still useless but at least he’s cuddly liberal useless not vindictive culture warrior useless.
 
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Ian1779

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Dec 6, 2012
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I wonder if it isn’t the Brexit Boys jumping ship before reality hits TBH.
This and an opportunity to make the money out of the carnage that could follow in Jan maybe....
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
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I’m reminded of someone referring to Theresa May becoming PM by the brexiteers stepping aside as TM being offered up as a pallet cleanser to cleanse all the Brexit shit.

Here’s a thought. What if the Brexit shit sandwich is so big and putrid that one pallet cleanser wasn’t enough and Boris has unwittingly become a second pallet cleanser.

Already there’s talk of further resignations, possibly from the cabinet. What’s the betting that if there are cabinet resignations when Boris resigns because of the inevitable mess of Brexit one of the resigned turns up in the leadership election with the Cummings circus in tow. Can’t help but feel that this is all part of a bigger plan and Cummings hasn’t disappeared for good. This all seems too orchestrated and not by Boris because he had the opportunity to get rid of him in the summer and didn’t.
 
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Sick Boy

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Sep 29, 2008
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Verona, Italy
Was driving to work today and a radio ad came on letting Italians know that they could still quite easily live and work in the UK after Brexit, presumably it’s going on across Europe.
It was always obvious immigration wasn’t going to decrease but I think there are going to be a few annoyed people ;)
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
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Was driving to work today and a radio ad came on letting Italians know that they could still quite easily live and work in the UK after Brexit, presumably it’s going on across Europe.
It was always obvious immigration wasn’t going to decrease but I think there are going to be a few annoyed people ;)
Lot of bilateral arrangements seem to being announced this week. We've been told today that legal residents here can change their papers next year without any hassle. Have to be done online then have to pop in and sign the papers
 

Sick Boy

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Sep 29, 2008
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Verona, Italy
Lot of bilateral arrangements seem to being announced this week. We've been told today that legal residents here can change their papers next year without any hassle. Have to be done online then have to pop in and sign the papers
I think here it’s quite straightforward as well but I’ve not had to because am registered as being Irish.
Bizarrely after the advert there was an advert with an impression of an exaggerated English accent of someone speaking Italian, bit weird to be on the receiving end of a foreign stereotype accent 😂😂
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2012
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here
That was just checking passports. When we leave they will also be checks on food, drink and agricultural products so even bigger delays.
TBF, it was a "trial"....conducted by a disgruntled french border staff working strictly to rule in the middle of an ongoing pay dispute.....

Obviously, its not rocket science to streamline such basic tick-box processes......but it does rely on both sides having both the will & wherewithal to do so.

Perhaps some kind of trade agreement might be an idea going forward. :)
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
20,459
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TBF, it was a "trial"....conducted by a disgruntled french border staff working strictly to rule in the middle of an ongoing pay dispute.....

Obviously, its not rocket science to streamline such basic tick-box processes......but it does rely on both sides having both the will & wherewithal to do so.

Perhaps some kind of trade agreement might be an idea going forward. :)
under a no deal every lorry crossing the border fairly seamlessly with a CMR form will no longer be able to do so so fingers crossed there is a trade agreement.
Otherwise, even if it only puts 10 minutes time on each vehicle clearing customs with something like 17,000 vehicles a day it's going to be carnage.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
26,275
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under a no deal every lorry crossing the border fairly seamlessly with a CMR form will no longer be able to do so so fingers crossed there is a trade agreement.
Otherwise, even if it only puts 10 minutes time on each vehicle clearing customs with something like 17,000 vehicles a day it's going to be carnage.
We used to have to fill in a Carnier , everything we took had to be submitted prior to the journey and approved, right down to the last screw or nail.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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So, the ERG are threatening to vote against the EU trade deal that they campaigned to get done not even 12 months ago meaning that it could be up to Labour MP’s to vote for it so the conservatives can deliver their manifesto headline.

Can see labour being between a rock and a hard place with this. If they don’t vote for it no deal will of course be their fault and not the Tories who didn’t vote to deliver their own manifesto. If they do vote for it, see above.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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So, the ERG are threatening to vote against the EU trade deal that they campaigned to get done not even 12 months ago meaning that it could be up to Labour MP’s to vote for it so the conservatives can deliver their manifesto headline.

Can see labour being between a rock and a hard place with this. If they don’t vote for it no deal will of course be their fault and not the Tories who didn’t vote to deliver their own manifesto. If they do vote for it, see above.
Yep. Inevitable. You'd think with such a massive majority from the election, given to them solely due to their pledge on brexit, if they then aren't able to pass Brexit legislation that would automatically have to fall at their door. But somehow it won't and the apologists will say it's because the deal isn't good enough for Britain and they're protecting our interests (ignoring the inference they're making about Tory negotiating ability).

Always amazes me how often Tories can be the cause of a problem yet it's always the other people involved who get the blame. How do you get that good at deflecting blame?
 

skyblueindorset

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
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North Dorset
Yep. Inevitable. You'd think with such a massive majority from the election, given to them solely due to their pledge on brexit, if they then aren't able to pass Brexit legislation that would automatically have to fall at their door. But somehow it won't and the apologists will say it's because the deal isn't good enough for Britain and they're protecting our interests (ignoring the inference they're making about Tory negotiating ability).

Always amazes me how often Tories can be the cause of a problem yet it's always the other people involved who get the blame. How do you get that good at deflecting blame?
Years of experience.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Labour would just abstain surely? That seems to be the Starmer style.
Not sure that will be an option this time given the severity of the consequences. Wouldn’t be surprised if Labour basically lend the Tories enough votes to get it through and not pander to the cult known as the ERG which ultimately would be the alternative. Not stopping a no deal Brexit is something many Labour voters might not be able to forgive Starmer for. Either way there’s some tough decisions to be made.

I wonder if the ERG do vote against it will Boris remove the whip from them?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Not sure that will be an option this time given the severity of the consequences. Wouldn’t be surprised if Labour basically lend the Tories enough votes to get it through and not pander to the cult known as the ERG which ultimately would be the alternative. Not stopping a no deal Brexit is something many Labour voters might not be able to forgive Starmer for. Either way there’s some tough decisions to be made.

I wonder if the ERG do vote against it will Boris remove the whip from them?
No way are more than half the Tories in the ERG. There’s no need for Labour to get involved if they don’t want to.

If it comes to it they hold the whip hand and could probably push for an extension or similar. Also if it comes to it Johnson is open to a legitimate no confidence vote. It’ll be 2019 all over again.

But I just don’t see how the maths works out to anything but Johnson getting his deal through.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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No way are more than half the Tories in the ERG. There’s no need for Labour to get involved if they don’t want to.

If it comes to it they hold the whip hand and could probably push for an extension or similar. Also if it comes to it Johnson is open to a legitimate no confidence vote. It’ll be 2019 all over again.

But I just don’t see how the maths works out to anything but Johnson getting his deal through.
That’s sort of the problem. No one really knows how many Tory mp’s are members of the ERG, certainly new Tory MP’s rushed to join them when elected in 2019. I’d be surprised if the 8 DUP MP’s didn’t vote against it considering their aversion to a border in the Irish Sea. It might not be as clear cut as the majority would have you believe at first glance.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
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Not sure that will be an option this time given the severity of the consequences. Wouldn’t be surprised if Labour basically lend the Tories enough votes to get it through and not pander to the cult known as the ERG which ultimately would be the alternative. Not stopping a no deal Brexit is something many Labour voters might not be able to forgive Starmer for. Either way there’s some tough decisions to be made.

I wonder if the ERG do vote against it will Boris remove the whip from them?
But if in future it turns out to be a crap deal (or people perceive it as such) you know full well who'll be getting the blame for it passing though.Not the party who negotiated it.

On the other hand they vote it down or abstain and they get blamed right now for trying to stop a Brexit deal (ignoring the uber brexiteers of the ERG not voting for it and preventing a parliament with a massive majority passing it).

Suppose they could leave it as a free vote but that'll be attacked too. Can't win.

I could see some arseholes in the Tories seeing it as a means to stab Johnson while he's weak and under pressure to mount a leadership challenge (possibly with the help of a man with a cardboard box and vision problems)
 
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skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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But if in future it turns out to be a crap deal (or people perceive it as such) you know full well who'll be getting the blame for it passing though.Not the party who negotiated it.

On the other hand they vote it down or abstain and they get blamed right now for trying to stop a Brexit deal (ignoring the uber brexiteers of the ERG not voting for it and preventing a parliament with a massive majority passing it).

Suppose they could leave it as a free vote but that'll be attacked too. Can't win.

I could see some arseholes in the Tories seeing it as a means to stab Johnson while he's weak and under pressure to mount a leadership challenge (possibly with the help of a man with a cardboard box and vision problems)
It’s pretty clear there’s a deliberate effort within the Tory Party and most likely the cabinet to undermine Boris, speaker of the house had to give a telling of to the Tories again today over leaks to the press so the announcement in Parliament today regarding lockdown was already known. Who knows how many followers the ringleader of that problem has and what lengths they will go too to overthrow Boris.