skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And the reality of Brexit.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (39 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
And the reality of Brexit.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Well what would you expect them to say?
The negotiators were probably well aware, certain EU heads of state maybe not so well informed & ahead of being briefed purposefully said they had nothing. It is pretty standard public practice & many people like yourself fall for it hook line & sinker when it suits your agenda.
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Don't lecture me about things that are or aren't public knowledge
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I don't lecture anymore. What I am doing is refusing to glibly accept what you appear to glibly accept.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
If you have something serious to contribute then do so. Otherwise shut up.
He is part of a specific agenda on one side of the argument! What type of argument would you expect him to spout?
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But if Alexander or his team did have an alternative they genuinely believed in why would he keep it secret? Wouldn't he want the attention and show he's trying. It also makes him look better as it makes the EU negotiators look like they're obstructing the process.
OR
the EU have received alternatives but they find it so utterly unworkable they'd leak it to the press to make Alexander (and by extension Britain) look silly.
Although it's not tactics I approve of it's largely how politics works and somewhere along the line someone would let slip what the plans are.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Referendum before election?
So what referendum result would you want for Labour? Tories are leave. Lib Dems remain. Still unsure of Labour.
Astute
Well-Known Member
But the biggest issue is Brexit. It is a single issue. It needs sorting before anything else. The Labour view seems to be wait and see. Labour needs a leader with a backbone. We need to know what we are voting for.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Why do SISU keep transfer fees secret? Why do things ever happen behind the scenes? It is like all those business deals cut out on the golf course really.
There is much that happens as a smokescreen to distract full attention from what is really happening. The media & many of the general public just lap it up. They have done for years...& that is what helps it to continue.
As for 'letting it slip' funny how Boris has tightened things up...a few early leaks but all seems quieter on that front except tonight trying to justify his efforts to suspend parliament.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Labour position is six months then referendum. It’s not perfect but it’s an end.
Tories have created all kinds of impossible red lines for a deal and no deal just means we have to start again having these argument.
But yeah I understand that, I just don’t think the Brexit fuck up is party politicial I think it’s in the nature of the beast.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Jesus man, international trade that’s supposed to be implemented in five weeks isn’t “kept secret”.
With all due respect, your lack of understanding and wish for Brexit is being taken advantage of and you are being taken for a mug.
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
Well this a complete fuckfest now - funniest moment ever is Corbyn saying Boris should consider his position - Bercow is a odious scab on democracy - I don’t have a side here but between the lot of them the country is going to the dogs - I feel sorry for our kids - labour proposals tantamount to going back to communism
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha. The guy is on the EU Brexit steering committee. Call me naive but I suspect that he knows more about what’s going on behind the scenes than you with the throw away line “how do you know what’s happening behind the scenes”. The guy in the interview does know and he clearly states that the British negotiating team has put 3 new papers into them and non of them offer an alternative to the backstop.
One simple question. If he’s wrong where’s the correction from the UK government stating that they have offered an alternative to the backstop? Remember that this is the repeated line from the EU side ever since Boris took over and I’m yet to see the government issue a correction and confirm that they’ve offered an alternative.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The word is pleb
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
tbh, if all major parties bought into implementing a referendum result within six months of taking office, it'd take away any necessity for any of the parties to talk about Brexit in a General Election.
And then we might actually find out what their policies are to screw the workers!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Football transfer market vs international trade deal = 1-1.
Have a word with yourself.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
You'd simply just blabber everything to the media & public at large & jeopardise any potential agreements yourself wouldn't you? You aren't naive in the slightest & wouldn't be taken advantage of because people they would simply not deal with you. But without respect - I bow to your better understanding of things. Although I feel more confident that Boris, Farage, Jeremy Corbyn, Jeremy Clarkson & even the despised Katie Hopkins would get a better outcome than you with your approach.
Despite some of the bollocks Boris spouts as distraction, I am pretty sure his Govt is orchestrating negotiations with all he needs to be. The EU are renowned for successful "last ditch" efforts...why do you think a Brexit agreement would be any different?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Yes he does know probably most that is going on behind the scenes. If you think he or others involved are going to reveal the full or even any truth about the real state of play away from the negotiating forum then yes...you are naive
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
It is about the principle of the thing. The principles & modus operandi agreed between negotiators.
Maybe you just don't understand it because you have no principles.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Right, so in your eyes both sides are biased. Fair enough, let’s look at the evidence then.
Amber Rudd was in the cabinet, she was privy to all the plans. She’s a good mate of Boris’. She quit the party because there was no plan.
The terms are clear, we can work out the options. They are: change your red lines, hard border in Ireland or CU in NI. The negotiations are done. It’s up to us to pick what we want, why on earth do we need to keep that secret?
And you talk about other glibly accepting bollocks? Engage your brain man, you’re just accepting anything people say if they tag the word Brexit on. They are taking advantage of you and taking the piss and here you are on the internet doing their job for them.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Part of the issue is the way you and many others talk about the negotiations it’s as if you frame it like negotiating a price at a market. The fact you then have the audacity to tell others they don’t understand how negotiations work while having this infantile take is laughable.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Did you even watch the interview. He clearly stated that 3 papers had been received and non offered an alternative to the backstop. It’s not like the government has once said we have offered an alternative to the backstop.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Then use the same principle. Make a comparison to a trade deal such as the Canada-EU trade deal or the Japan-EU trade deal. Not the football transfer market for Christ sake.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Politics relies heavily on spin and leaking. If something will give you leverage over your opponent it will in some way find its way out, even if just in rumours.
David Davis spent months saying how much preparation had been done and we were well on the way to getting a deal sorted, he just couldn't reveal any details. Then when he had to actually put stuff forward it was "we haven't actually done any". Why would this be any different?
Plus why do I think Brexit would be different from 'last ditch efforts' - the fact we've already had a six month extension from the leave date and the EU have voted very strongly in the last week for allowing a further extension if required.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Even at a farmers market the no deal threat makes no sense.
“I’m going to starve myself for a week before going, then they’ll know I can go without food and give me a better deal. I also won’t tell them what I want or let them know Tesco exists because then they’ll use it against me”
I can just see these jokers at the butchers.
“Alright mate? Can I get you something?”
“Maybe”
“Well let me know”
“I like the look of that beef, how much?”
“£5”
“Ah sucker! I wanted chicken!”
“OK £6 for the chicken”
“Give me a discount! Also I’ll die of starvation if I don’t eat soon and you’ll lose a customer! Ha! Checkmate!”
“You OK mate?”
Astute
Well-Known Member
E
Everything Corbyn has said he wants has changed. Out of the EU became stay in the EU. Calling for a GE became turning down a GE when offered.
The Lib Dems were finished as a party of choice. They laid their cards on the table as remain. They are now the second party because of this. People are now unsure of what Labour wants. So if they want remain they have the Lib Dems. If they want leave they have the Tories. But there again I suppose if they are still unsure what they want they have Labour.
Labours position is to not have a position. Corbyn has sat on the fence so long that he must have a whole tree up his arse.
Everything Corbyn has said he wants has changed. Out of the EU became stay in the EU. Calling for a GE became turning down a GE when offered.
The Lib Dems were finished as a party of choice. They laid their cards on the table as remain. They are now the second party because of this. People are now unsure of what Labour wants. So if they want remain they have the Lib Dems. If they want leave they have the Tories. But there again I suppose if they are still unsure what they want they have Labour.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You think any party would be truthful to us? :shifty:
It’s like the car buying analogy, absolute nonsense.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Six month implementation period? Could even write it into the statute books.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Good morning remainer friends :smuggrin:
36 days to go!
36 days to go!
Astute
Well-Known Member
dutchman
Well-Known Member
And then another 90 day extension!
Astute
Well-Known Member
Then try to work out if it would be political suicide to offer another referendum. If so continue as now until the time looks right as most people don't care how this debacle ends just as long as it does.
