talklsport now (5 Viewers)

[Kingokings204]

I disagree, if McGinnity had not sold the revenue right's it may of helped, with respect to Richardson and the Ricoh you can say that the man should have either built a Stadium within the Clubs revenue and his own finances or just stayed at Highfield Road.

Sisu were the ones that took us to Northampton and the act of them taking us there is their fault 100%, however the issue of rent and ownership which has caused that bubbled at the surface before they arrived.

TBF Robo I think we are all correct, no one is innocent in all this. Selling HF road was a mistake and selling revenue was but moving to Northampton is unforgivable to me.

 

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[RoboCCFC90]

TBF Robo I think we are all correct, no one is innocent in all this. Selling HF road was a mistake and selling revenue was but moving to Northampton is unforgivable to me.

KOK I couldn't agree more the move to Northampton was of Sisu's own fault.

However both sides of the argument have valid points and as you said no one is innocent.

 

[Moff]

No, read the post to which I was responding. It says the actions of pre-Sisu owners have lead us to where we are now.

Utter bullshit.

Are you suggesting that if someone with even a smidgeon of competence/good intent had of assumed the reigns instead of Sisu, we would still find ourselves at Sixfields?

....yeah, I remember at the time HR was sold, loads of us were saying "In 10 years time, we'll be in Northampton cos of this!".

Read my post, this isn't about Sixfields but feel free to blather on about it. (I have never denied that no other idiots apart from SISU would have taken us there)

If it hadnt been for Richardson we would own our own ground so wouldnt be at Sixfields as we wouldnt be owned by a hedge fund.

Get it?????? so the only utter bullshit is yours

 

[lewys33]

KOK I couldn't agree more the move to Northampton was of Sisu's own fault.

However both sides of the argument have valid points and as you said no one is innocent.

People read what they want to read at the end of the day. Nobody has said "this is all the previous owners fault!"

It's just the consideration that they must have some accountability for this mess. YES - the reality is Sisu have made things worse rather fixed anything. Would it have been the same under previous owners?

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but I cant help but think WHAT IF we had gone in to administration back then instead?

 

[Moff]

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but I cant help but think WHAT IF we had gone in to administration back then instead?

Something I have thought about many times. How things could be so different now.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

People read what they want to read at the end of the day. Nobody has said "this is all the previous owners fault!"

It's just the consideration that they must have some accountability for this mess. YES - the reality is Sisu have made things worse rather fixed anything. Would it have been the same under previous owners?

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but I cant help but think WHAT IF we had gone in to administration back then instead?

I absolutely agree.

If we had things may have been so different, but there are so many variables as to the term "What If?" for instance what if we had stayed at Highfield Road instead of building the Ricoh, what if we had gone into Admin before Sisu arrived, what if Sisu had purchased the Higgs share, unfortunately though asking that question won't get us anywhere, but those accountable do need to stand up and explain themselves to the fans of Coventry City, it's not been good enough.

 

[rondog1973]

What happened under Richardson lead to the club not owning its own ground. Surely even you can see that has lead to where we are now?

Read my post, this isn't about Sixfields but feel free to blather on about it. (I have never denied that no other idiots apart from SISU would have taken us there)

If it hadnt been for Richardson we would own our own ground so wouldnt be at Sixfields as we wouldnt be owned by a hedge fund.

Get it?????? so the only utter bullshit is yours

Again....the post I originally responded to stated that the actions of the BR regime have led us to where, that's where (Sixfields Stadium, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN5 5QA) find ourselves today.

So I ask you again, do you think if we had owners other than Sisu, this is where we would currently be?

Take your time.

 

[Kingokings204]

Again....the post I originally responded to stated that the actions of the BR regime have led us to where, that's where (Sixfields Stadium, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN5 5QA) find ourselves today.

So I ask you again, do you think if we had owners other than Sisu, this is where we would currently be?

Take your time.

I see all arguments and all are valid, I have to agree though no-one else would be taking us to NTFC.

 

[rondog1973]

I see all arguments and all are valid, I have to agree though no-one else would be taking us to NTFC.

Thank you.

 

[Moff]

Again....the post I originally responded to stated that the actions of the BR regime have led us to where, that's where (Sixfields Stadium, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN5 5QA) find ourselves today.

So I ask you again, do you think if we had owners other than Sisu, this is where we would currently be?

Take your time.

No as I had previously stated.

I believe I posted 'no other idiots would have taken us to Sixfields' Obviously you seem to have missed that!

.......but then without Richardsons car crash running of the finances we would be the owners of a nice new stadium, or how about our traditional home.

All are culpable along this utter clusterf*ck of stewardship of our club

 

[James Smith]

Spot on. The notion that the lending from Higgs and Robinson was any different from lending from ARVO is a funny one.

I'm going to have to check but a mate loaned me his copy of the holdings printed accounts from one year. There was a note or two in there about the directors loans. Some were getting interest and some weren't, I'll have to see if I made a copy or if he can send one.

 

[rondog1973]

No as I had previously stated.
I was responding to mark82's post! Then you piped up completely missing the point I was making.

Enough anyways, I have to work.
I believe I posted 'no other idiots would have taken us to Sixfields' Obviously you seem to have missed that!

.......but then without Richardsons car crash running of the finances we would be the owners of a nice new stadium, or how about our traditional home.

All are culpable along this utter clusterf*ck of stewardship of our club

 

[Moff]

Rondog, I know you were responding to Marks post, obviously you missed that point as well.

I agree with what Mark had said, and so supported his stance. I certainly didnt miss your point, it has been discussed all season so you weren't posting anything new. I apologise though I didn't realise this was a private forum where you can only respond to one person at a time.

I totally agree with him that this mess started a long time before SISU came on the scene, but you seem just to want to point out the quite obvious and continually pointed out fact that we are at Sixfields solely down to SISU. Everyone agrees on this fact but feel free to point it out just in case anyone has missed that, its just some of us look further back to see when the ball started rolling on this utter mess.

 

[_brian_]

Rondog, I know you were responding to Marks post, obviously you missed that point as well.

I agree with what Mark had said, and so supported his stance. I certainly didnt miss your point, it has been discussed all season so you weren't posting anything new. I apologise though I didn't realise this was a private forum where you can only respond to one person at a time.

I totally agree with him that this mess started a long time before SISU came on the scene, but you seem just to want to point out the quite obvious and continually pointed out fact that we are at Sixfields solely down to SISU. Everyone agrees on this fact but feel free to point it out just in case anyone has missed that, its just some of us look further back to see when the ball started rolling on this utter mess.

That's all well and good, but it's Sisu that moved us to Northampton and nobody else, mate!!!

 

[shmmeee]

Really? It's funny to see a difference with a loan made by directors who are long standing fans and shown no expectation of immediate payment and a loan made at above commercial rates from a company that most certainly expects a return on investment?

Is it also funny to take into account the income and cashflow of the club when looking at total debt liabilities? Do you also think the budget deficit is "like a household budget" and that we've "maxed out the national credit card" by any chance?

We could sustain higher debt in the Prem than we can in League 1, is that really hard to understand? When you take into account the financial situation as a whole, yes I stand by my claim that McGinnity and Sisu have each done far worse than Richardson financially.

 

[Sky Blues]

For all intents and purposes, what's good for SISU is what's good for CCFC. We need to be financially viable, end of. If we do well they can sell us for a profit, if not they can't.

Given your longstanding claim to have warned about the dangers of SISU owning CCFC, I'm guessing this first line is sarcastic, right? We should all know by now that what's good for SISU is good for... SISU.

Yes, CCFC needs to be financially viable, but please explain to me how it is more financially viable playing in front of 2,000 people in Northampton than 11,000 people in Coventry.

Hedge funds hedge. Even "if we do well", you seem to be banking on SISU finding they can generate their highest return by selling CCFC. If they think they can make more money another way, would you bet against them taking an alternative path, one which, potentially, might not necessarily be in the best interests of CCFC and its fans?

 

[shmmeee]

Given your longstanding claim to have warned about the dangers of SISU owning CCFC, I'm guessing this first line is sarcastic, right? We should all know by now that what's good for SISU is good for... SISU.

Yes, CCFC needs to be financially viable, but please explain to me how it is more financially viable playing in front of 2,000 people in Northampton than 11,000 people in Coventry.

Hedge funds hedge. Even "if we do well", you seem to be banking on SISU finding they can generate their highest return by selling CCFC. If they think they can make more money another way, would you bet against them taking an alternative path, one which, potentially, might not necessarily be in the best interests of CCFC and its fans?

What cracks me up about his line of thought is that it assumes that the reason we've not been doing well is just that Sisu haven't been trying. Now they want a profit, of course we'll be successful. I assume by extension all those unsuccessful clubs just haven't been profit hungry enough.

 

[Moff]

That's all well and good, but it's Sisu that moved us to Northampton and nobody else, mate!!!

Thanks for the update Brian. I think I have mentioned and agreed with that fact in a few of my 1400 posts but I appreciate your concern that I might have missed it mate!!!

 

[lordsummerisle]

What cracks me up about his line of thought is that it assumes that the reason we've not been doing well is just that Sisu haven't been trying. Now they want a profit, of course we'll be successful. I assume by extension all those unsuccessful clubs just haven't been profit hungry enough.

Sorry, my mistake.

I forgot to put the quote marks round the original quote by you shmmeee.

All your own work i'm afraid!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Given your longstanding claim to have warned about the dangers of SISU owning CCFC, I'm guessing this first line is sarcastic, right? We should all know by now that what's good for SISU is good for... SISU.

Yes, CCFC needs to be financially viable, but please explain to me how it is more financially viable playing in front of 2,000 people in Northampton than 11,000 people in Coventry.

Hedge funds hedge. Even "if we do well", you seem to be banking on SISU finding they can generate their highest return by selling CCFC. If they think they can make more money another way, would you bet against them taking an alternative path, one which, potentially, might not necessarily be in the best interests of CCFC and its fans?

Really Shmmeee should be answering this question for you, I'm in perfect agreement with you.

 

[James Smith]

I'm going to have to check but a mate loaned me his copy of the holdings printed accounts from one year. There was a note or two in there about the directors loans. Some were getting interest and some weren't, I'll have to see if I made a copy or if he can send one.

 

[shmmeee]

So, in a nutshell, pretty fucking different from the ARVO loans.

No doubt we won't see the apologists on this thread again. They don't like documentary evidence.

 

[lordsummerisle]

So, in a nutshell, pretty fucking different from the ARVO loans.

No doubt we won't see the apologists on this thread again. They don't like documentary evidence.

Are you going to argue with yourself again?

 

[torchomatic]

When we were relegated from the Premiership our wage bill was 125% of our turnover.

Well we had more income by far when Richardson left, not to mention less debt and less of it carrying interest. Most of our debt was to CCFC supporting directors (Higgs & Robinson). We were about to move into a ground where we'd not only get all the football revenue but also half of the revenue from the rest of the complex.

Even if you include the debt from Robinson & Higgs, it was still smaller than the current debt to Sisu. That debt bought us "the Entertainers". Sisu's bought us Chris Coleman.

Have a look at these graphs: http://worksmart.org.uk/company/company.php?id=00094305#Historical_accounts

Turnover went down, profit dropped off a cliff, yet director renumeration spiked when McGinnity came in. Also note how the only people to increase the wage bill since relegation were Sisu in 2007.

I know the traditional story regarding Richardson. But yes, I maintain he left us in a better position than we are currently in. Not a good position, but a better one than we are in now. McGinnity also managed to control the entire story regarding the debt that doesn't match up with the figures, and seems to get let off and in some cases even praised!

 

[Hobo]

This is a very long discussion by talksport, glad I don't follow the station.

 

[torchomatic]

Where we are. The "position" we find ourselves in both geographically and financially. Yes, all stems from Richardson. He was the catalyst.

Again....the post I originally responded to stated that the actions of the BR regime have led us to where, that's where (Sixfields Stadium, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN5 5QA) find ourselves today.

So I ask you again, do you think if we had owners other than Sisu, this is where we would currently be?

Take your time.

 

[James Smith]

So, in a nutshell, pretty fucking different from the ARVO loans.

No doubt we won't see the apologists on this thread again. They don't like documentary evidence.

Sorry about the rubbish quality. As far as I can make out (can't read the bit fully about Craigavon?) we had a £6m loan from REFFL which appears from a quick google had something to do with Ray Ranson backed by some player registrations. Then comes something that OSB58 might like to correct me on but McGinnity, Higgs and GR loaned the club a total of £2m in 2004. Now I think the person/group that paid off the loans got FI LTD and then the three directors loaned that money back to the club unsecured and interest free.

Then the McGinnity loan on the 2nd page appears to attract a healthy rate of interest. Plus Mr Jepson did some work for the club and was paid for it.

If I've got any of that wrong please feel free to correct me.

 

[torchomatic]

COVENTRY North-east MP Bob Ainsworth yesterday welcomed the prospect of a public court battle between ousted Sky Blues chairman Bryan Richardson and Coventry City Football Club.

He said fans would be fascinated to find out exactly how the club has ended up with debts which reached nearly pounds 60 million, without a ground it owned and being relegated to the First Division.

Mr Richardson is suing the club for pounds 350,000 after he was summarily dismissed in a boardroom coup in January - the equivalent of a year's salary, bonus and perks. The club is planning to counter-sue.

Mr Ainsworth said: "I don't think people have a huge amount of sympathy for Mr Richardson, but I think they'll be fascinated to know the inside story of what's happened at their club.

"If he'd care to tell us, either in court or elsewhere, I'm sure he'll have the ears of Coventry. I don't think any more damage can be done to the football club than that which has already been done."

Mr Ainsworth said a court case would probably be the only way the fans would find out what has happened at the club.

He said: "Only a few years ago the club owned its own ground and the land on which it was to build a stadium and Bryan Richardson was saying there were exciting prospects for the Foleshill gasworks site.

"Over a relatively short period they've come to a position where they don't own the ground, they don't own the contaminated land on which they hope somebody is going to be able to build a stadium and they don't own all their footballers.

"All they own is a pile of debt.

"Whether or not they've got there because of heroic attempts to keep them in the Premier League and the necessities of paying wages to top flight players or whether or not there are other reasons for the demise, it would be very nice to understand in detail."

The council now owns the Foleshill site and is hoping to develop an arena with Advantage West Midlands and the club.

 

[rondog1973]

Where we are. The "position" we find ourselves in both geographically and financially. Yes, all stems from Richardson. He was the catalyst.

Right, back from work. Can devote a bit of time to clarifying my sentiments. They are, regardless of what financial condition the Richardson era left the club, we find ourselves at Northampton due to Sisu, and Sisu alone. If anyone else had come in for the club in 2007, I simply can't imagine that they would have taken the same course of action that Sisu have.

That was, what the first post I responded to seemed to imply, thus I disagreed.

Fail to understand why some of you don't get that.

 

[The Gentleman]

COVENTRY North-east MP Bob Ainsworth yesterday welcomed the prospect of a public court battle between ousted Sky Blues chairman Bryan Richardson and Coventry City Football Club.

He said fans would be fascinated to find out exactly how the club has ended up with debts which reached nearly pounds 60 million, without a ground it owned and being relegated to the First Division.

Mr Richardson is suing the club for pounds 350,000 after he was summarily dismissed in a boardroom coup in January - the equivalent of a year's salary, bonus and perks. The club is planning to counter-sue.

Mr Ainsworth said: "I don't think people have a huge amount of sympathy for Mr Richardson, but I think they'll be fascinated to know the inside story of what's happened at their club.

"If he'd care to tell us, either in court or elsewhere, I'm sure he'll have the ears of Coventry. I don't think any more damage can be done to the football club than that which has already been done."

Mr Ainsworth said a court case would probably be the only way the fans would find out what has happened at the club.

He said: "Only a few years ago the club owned its own ground and the land on which it was to build a stadium and Bryan Richardson was saying there were exciting prospects for the Foleshill gasworks site.

"Over a relatively short period they've come to a position where they don't own the ground, they don't own the contaminated land on which they hope somebody is going to be able to build a stadium and they don't own all their footballers.

"All they own is a pile of debt.

"Whether or not they've got there because of heroic attempts to keep them in the Premier League and the necessities of paying wages to top flight players or whether or not there are other reasons for the demise, it would be very nice to understand in detail."

The council now owns the Foleshill site and is hoping to develop an arena with Advantage West Midlands and the club.

Yet again, you give a little well yes Sisu are bad but then go into great detail to actually blame someone else for our woes rather than lay the bulk of the blame at Sisu's door. There are plenty of football clubs who have had really shit owners who have shafted the club they had and the fans that belonged to it, but are all of them clubs that had/have shit owners in the state we are in? You say that Richardson is the catalyst for where we are now. I say the catalyst for where we are now is the fact that Sisu want a top stadium for next to nothing to make an ultimate profit on it and they do not care how they go about it or who gets trampled on in the process. Oh and if they can make a few extra quid suing a few people on the way, all the better.

 

[Astute]

Where we are. The "position" we find ourselves in both geographically and financially. Yes, all stems from Richardson. He was the catalyst.

If Richardson was the catalyst does that make Joy the dogalyst?

 

[The Gentleman]

If Richardson was the catalyst does that make Joy the dogalyst?

I didn't realise that she knows Stan Collymore.