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Survival? Sorry... but am I missing something (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mexico88
  • Start date Feb 25, 2012
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ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #71
CJparker said:
If the club gets relegated and then goes into liquidation, will any of the nay-saysers take satisfaction in saying "we told you so" to the optimists on here? If not (I hope not), then stop whining and get behind the team for one of the most exciting run-ins we've had in years!
Click to expand...

Exciting ?

I prefered it when we were in mid table obscurity
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #72
mexico88 said:
Right, for clarity's sake...

1. I was referring to the games we've lost but had 'chances' in and therefore 'unlucky' to lose (as per some fans opinions)

2. This post, when read correctly will show that I'm looking for a soloition to stay up - not accepting relegation with a defeatist attitude.

I have no problem with the belief of all fans and I stand right beside you - but you can't just say "everything will be alright if we get behind the team" or "keep the faith". Sometimes more than a positive attitude is required. So I'm simply stating the facts and giving my 'opinion' on a soloition. Actions speak louder than... positive thoughts.

Fact 1: the team plays well one week and dog poo the next
Fact 2: if we play like we did against Barnsley, we would have to be very lucky to stay up
Fact 3: the manager is not getting the best out of the team

You can all sit there and have faith that this manager will get us out of trouble- its your 'opinion' - but hey... Don't forget, he's the one that led the team to that position.

Now, if you still think 1. the team is good enough to stay up and 2. We need to get behind them - I have just one question...

If you think the team is good enough to stay up, then surely that means SISU left Andy Thorn with a competitive side. Therefore, if we do go down - is it not his fault? Ie: if you believe that this team can stay up and we don't, the It's a management problem, because there was nothing wrong with the team?
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Stop with the rational thoughts,

Back the team blindly and dont inform us of what is obvious, but we dont want to know
 

Colonel Mustard

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #73
CJparker said:
we have been nailed down for relegation since August and now all of a sudden we are in with a real chance of staying up.
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No we aren't.

But of course, that's not good enough for some - haven't all the "changes" you mention i.e. predicatable knee jerk reactions, got us into this mess in the first place?
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No.

I want to support the team unconditionally and I expect the same of others. Grow up.
Click to expand...

I understand you're keen to throw my little sneer back in my face, but you really shouldn't be saying "grow up" whilst simultaneously taking great pride in a closed mind.
 

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #74
The run-in to come may be relatively exciting, but I'm another who'd far rather have nothing to play for. If we were to beat relegation last-minute like we used to there would be a sense of relief, but it'd be married to a horrible sense of what it is that now renders us pleased with a season.
 

CJparker

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #75
Colonel Mustard said:
No we aren't.



No.



I understand you're keen to throw my little sneer back in my face, but you really shouldn't be saying "grow up" whilst simultaneously taking great pride in a closed mind.
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So we're not in with a chance of staying up? How about that for a closed mind. Pathetic.

Can't understand this mentality. Yes, we'd all rather be higher up the league but we are where we are, why not back the team during the crucial run-in?

Answer - because it's easier to sit on the sidelines being cynical and mocking loyal fans.

I've been to 12 games this season during which we've only gained 1 point in total, do you hear me moaning, no. I won't be writing us off any time soon, not until we are mathematically down. Shame on you for giving up and taking pride in that.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #76
Stay away then you're the reason were losing.
 

Colonel Mustard

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #77
CJparker said:
So we're not in with a chance of staying up? How about that for a closed mind. Pathetic.
Click to expand...

An open mind, actually. I just look at the facts and assess the data and say with great confidence that no, we don't have a 'real' chance of staying up.

Can't understand this mentality.
Click to expand...

Yeah, being reasonable can be a bitch.

Yes, we'd all rather be higher up the league but we are where we are, why not back the team during the crucial run-in?
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I do.

Answer - because it's easier to sit on the sidelines being cynical and mocking loyal fans.
Click to expand...

If you think that scouring multiple websites and doing data analysis is easier than sitting back and going 'yay', then you're much mistaken. And I don't mock loyal fans - just those who are the first to use labels and scream and shout, but then whimper as soon as anything is given back at 'em.

I've been to 12 games this season during which we've only gained 1 point in total, do you hear me moaning, no. I won't be writing us off any time soon, not until we are mathematically down. Shame on you for giving up and taking pride in that.
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Shame on you for putting self-help guff before the club.
 

CJparker

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #78
Self-help guff? Where did you pull that from???

History doesn't tell you everything, from your analysis we will never win another away match, ever, because of our recent record. My own view of history is that chopping the manager and bringing a replacement hasn't produced long term benefits.

What the club needs now is unconditional support. We are 1 measly result away from safety, and yet you think we have "no real chance of staying up" - why do to you take pleasure in waving the white flag before the real dog fight has even started?
 

Colonel Mustard

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #79
CJparker said:
Self-help guff? Where did you pull that from???
Click to expand...

Remaining upbeat about one's prospects in spite of all evidence pointing to the contrary. Self-help guff.

History doesn't tell you everything, from your analysis we will never win another away match, ever, because of our recent record.
Click to expand...

Not true in the least.

My own view of history is that chopping the manager and bringing a replacement hasn't produced long term benefits.
Click to expand...

This is true, but too superficial. Any analysis of Nilsson and Black's results would show extremely capable, successful managers. There's nothing wrong with sacking ineffective managers, but it's criminal to sack the successful ones. Had they stayed on for three or four years then the general turnover would be a lot smaller.

What the club needs now is unconditional support.
Click to expand...

At the ground, yes. Not on a message board.

We are 1 measly result away from safety, and yet you think we have "no real chance of staying up" - why do to you take pleasure in waving the white flag before the real dog fight has even started?
Click to expand...

I don't take pleasure in it. And I take no pleasure in the thought of CCFC being relegated. I'm not sure how many more times I have to say that. I could easily make a counter-claim that you take pleasure in CCFC being relegated by continuing to back an ineffective manager - but I don't, because I know you wouldn't because you're a fan.

To stay up we would need to reverse an entire season's trends. We would need to continue a very improbable run of home wins as well as pick up points away from home. Do you really think that is likely? Does this season's poor performance and lack of spikes really make you believe we're due one? Did the Barnsley performance (not result) really hearten you?
 

CJparker

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #80
The season is based on 46 games, not 30-35 - it's where we are at the end of the season that counts. We're in with a real shout, because effectively the season starts now - who cares what's gone before? You're talking like we're down when the issue is far from settled.

I'd agree we're not hot favourites to stay up, but we have a real fighting chance - anyone can see that. It's results not performances that count, so the win over Barnsley was fine with me. I started this season expecting us to be dead and buried by now, but here we are fighting our corner still.

Frankly, I don't see AT as ineffective. He has a criminally poor squad with no resources, managing a club that has long punched well above its weight in this division. Even if we go down I;d give him a 3 year contract as manager. If we stay up, make it 5 years.

With your attitude, why do you bother to go to games?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #81
kduffy said:
Stay away then you're the reason were losing.
Click to expand...

I agree with parker. But this post is still funny
 

Colonel Mustard

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #82
CJparker said:
The season is based on 46 games, not 30-35 - it's where we are at the end of the season that counts.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly. But we've had 72% of those 46 games and at every marker along the way we have seen consistency. To write off the importance of that data is to be willingly ignorant. Bookies don't determine their odds based on the fire in the eyes or the sound of the chest thump - they base it on cold, objective analysis. We're odds-on for relegation for very good reasons.

We're in with a real shout
Click to expand...

No we're not.

because effectively the season starts now - who cares what's gone before?
Click to expand...

Some of us do. Which is why we've been calling for a change in stewardship for a long time.

You're talking like we're down when the issue is far from settled.
Click to expand...

I am merely saying that it's very likely we'll go down in response to your substance-free guff about having a 'real chance' to stay up and demands that 'negativity' be silenced.

I'd agree we're not hot favourites to stay up, but we have a real fighting chance
Click to expand...

No we don't.

anyone can see that
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Haha.

It's results not performances that count
Click to expand...

As a whole, that is true. But given that you're so keen on looking to the future and the remaining fixtures, then you will surely concede that performances like the one with Barnsley do not bode well for future results.

so the win over Barnsley was fine with me. I started this season expecting us to be dead and buried by now, but here we are fighting our corner still.
Click to expand...

They didn't really look like they were fighting against Barnsley...

Frankly, I don't see AT as ineffective. He has a criminally poor squad with no resources, managing a club that has long punched well above its weight in this division. Even if we go down I;d give him a 3 year contract as manager. If we stay up, make it 5 years.
Click to expand...

Ah, that old paradox. The squad that is supposedly so bad that it is relegation fodder, and yet supposedly has the ability to stay up. Which is it? You can't keep having it both ways. Either Thorn is doomed with a rubbish squad, or he is not making enough of their ability (which is sufficient to survive).
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #83
We have as good a chance of staying up as Bristol and Forest imo, 1 poor performance against Barnsley doesn't mean we are going down equally as one good performance against Leeds doesn't mean we are staying up.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #84
CJparker said:
. Even if we go down I;d give him a 3 year contract as manager. If we stay up, make it 5 years.
Click to expand...

SISU must love people like you, it lets them get away from investing and hiring a decent manager.

They must be laughing their heads off.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #85
Sick Boy said:
SISU must love people like you, it lets them get away from investing and hiring a decent manager.

They must be laughing their heads off.
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I just showed a mate of mine CJ's post. He laughed so much he broke 2 ribs - now he's threatening to sue me.
 
D

dadgad

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #86
Sick Boy said:
SISU must love people like you, it lets them get away from investing and hiring a decent manager.

They must be laughing their heads off.
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Absurd. SickBoy, Sisu are cutting costs, that is their sole rationale. Meanwhile they also continue to pay off Coleman and Boothroyd.....while you would appoint "?" who would cost "?" who would be paid with"?" while demanding"?" a budget of £ "?" to sort this weak squad - a consequence of the aforementioned cost cutting.
You haven't begun to think this through, have you?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #87
dadgad said:
Absurd. SickBoy, Sisu are cutting costs, that is their sole rationale. Meanwhile they also continue to pay off Coleman and Boothroyd.....while you would appoint "?" who would cost "?" who would be paid with"?" while demanding"?" a budget of £ "?" to sort this weak squad - a consequence of the aforementioned cost cutting.
You haven't begun to think this through, have you?
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How are they paying off Coleman & Boothroyd!? You stop paying the remainder of the contract when the manager finds a new position. Anyway, Coleman's contract would have expired last Summer I believe.

I have stated what I think about this in previous threads. IF Thorn really is as good as people believe he is, I am sure they want to see him prove us all wrong. I imagine the only way he would stay in the job is if SISU were to stay. After all, he is a much of a SISU employee as Tim Fisher.

Appointing Thorn was a brave and risky decision. At least some people can see what they are trying to do.
 
C

curlyc_

New Member
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #88
only read the first few posts and have to say that even though i've never been confident about us staying up since july, in all these forty years of us never finishing in the top 6, weve only failed in 1 survival battle. PUSB.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 26, 2012
  • #89
I wish I could share the optimism, I just hope that in 5 years we aren't looking back at this season and thinking we should have tried anything to avoid relegation to League 1.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #90
We are in a better position now than a month ago. Just need to retain upturn in form till end of season & hopefully a few teams above will finish badly & drop not us. But it is still a slim hope.

But we desperately need some points away. This says it all... 2nd best on recent home form, LAST on recent away form and a bit below mid-table on overall form.

........................Pld W D L F A GD GFA GAA PpG Pts Rank
Last 8 Overall 8 3 0 5 9 12 -3 1.12 1.50 1.12 9 15th
Last 5 Home 5 4 0 1 10 5 5 2.00 1.00 2.40 12 2nd
Last 5 Away 5 0 0 5 1 8 -7 0.20 1.60 0.00 0 24th
 
Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2012

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #91
Sick Boy said:
I wish I could share the optimism, I just hope that in 5 years we aren't looking back at this season and thinking we should have tried anything to avoid relegation to League 1.
Click to expand...

According to one poster Thorn should still be in contract by then. Still away games at Leamington and Hinkley will save on the coffers.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #92
dadgad said:
Absurd. SickBoy, Sisu are cutting costs, that is their sole rationale. Meanwhile they also continue to pay off Coleman and Boothroyd.....while you would appoint "?" who would cost "?" who would be paid with"?" while demanding"?" a budget of £ "?" to sort this weak squad - a consequence of the aforementioned cost cutting.
You haven't begun to think this through, have you?
Click to expand...

As neither Coleman or Boothroyd are now being paid at all it seems you haven't thought anything through.
 
M

mexico88

New Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #93
Colonel Mustard said:
Ah, that old paradox. The squad that is supposedly so bad that it is relegation fodder, and yet supposedly has the ability to stay up. Which is it? You can't keep having it both ways. Either Thorn is doomed with a rubbish squad, or he is not making enough of their ability (which is sufficient to survive).
Click to expand...

I still don't think some people are getting this bit you know?

- Teams not good enough to stay up but Thorn is doing the best he can = Good manager/Relegation

- Teams good enough to stay up but Thorn is doing a poor job based on results = Poor manager/Change required

You can't have both opinions - that's a contradiction and its dumb.

You can't believe we'll survive on one hand and then have your reason why we didn't pre-planned - otherwise you're no better than SISU. It's basically saying that you can see the problem, but you wont accept it's there. BURY... HEAD... SAND...
 
Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
A

aodea

New Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #94
I feal that some poeple want us to go down, yes its likely and i dont think we have a better squad than the teams around us. But our home form is great and a few weeks ago we were 8 points from saftey now we are 3 points. Surely this is a positive. Im for one going to remain positive because the thought of dropping another division is heartbreaking.

Play up Sky blues!!!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #95
mexico88 said:
I still don't think some people are getting this bit you know?

- Teams not good enough to stay up but Thorn is doing the best he can = Good manager/Relegation

- Teams good enough to stay up but Thorn is doing a poor job based on results = Poor manager/Change required

You can't have both opinions - that's a contradiction and its dumb.

You can't believe we'll survive on one hand and then have your reason why we didn't pre-planned - otherwise you're no better than SISU. It's basically saying that you can see the problem, but you wont accept it's there. BURY... HEAD... SAND...
Click to expand...

Bury - we lost to them didn't we?
 

Disorganised1

New Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #96
Yesterday was very poor - but we looked the more likely to score throughout. Platt is very effective at this level, and Nimely could yet score a hatful, because he is in a different class. We have a good keeper, and a strong defence, when we have 4 players ni their correct positions. Less said about midfield the better.

Barnsley were worse than us - but how many games have we been the better team and lost ? Winning every home game should keep us up - some away points would be nice though.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #97
aodea said:
I feal that some poeple want us to go down
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There are a few on here as well.

One of them even said that in a way they like us going down because SISU will be gone sooner. He is also in 100% support of Thorn.
 
M

mexico88

New Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #98
aodea said:
I'm for one going to remain positive because the thought of dropping another division is heartbreaking.

Play up Sky blues!!!
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Good Idea... Let's just hope the problem goes away! Then we can all moan in league 1 that it was SISU's fault because the team wasn't good enough... wait... are we going around in circles here?
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #99
want to go down?...........what a stupid thing to say

the squad is good enough to stay up,we just beat a playoff chasing team and a mid table team

if we go down its due to bad management
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #100
covcity4life said:
want to go down?...........what a stupid thing to say

the squad is good enough to stay up,we just beat a playoff chasing team and a mid table team

if we go down its due to bad management
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It makes you wonder if some of them have deliberately stuck up for Thorn, especially when results have been going bad as they have had a personal agenda.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #101
We can all remain positive in supporting the team and getting behind them on match days, yet at the same time debate the issues at hand and also face up to the stark reality that we will more than likely go down.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #102
Sick Boy said:
It makes you wonder if some of them have deliberately stuck up for Thorn, especially when results have been going bad as they have had a personal agenda.
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I am genuinely beginning to wonder the same myself. Making wild comments like offer him a 5 year contract has no foundation for reason. You ultimately have to conclude there is another agenda somewhere. What real fans of any club would actually say let's reward the manager with the worst record in living memory a longer deal than any other manager ever has had. Its just beyond reason.
 

We'll_live_and_die

Super Moderator
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #103
Otis said:
we will more than likely go down.
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In your opinion.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #104
I did find that rather strange.

Why on earth would we offer him a 5 year contract?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 27, 2012
  • #105
La_Lucha said:
In your opinion.
Click to expand...

No, just facing facts, Rich.

We have the worst away record in the entire Football League. We need points on our travels to survive. We have lost 9 away games on the trot. We have only scored 7 goals in 16 away games.

That tells me that we are likely to go down. Difficult to argue against that. Have we seen anything away from home lately that has made it look like we can pick up points? Did we even make the Forest keeper make a save in the last game?

Just facing facts, Rich.
 
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