Stadium update (19 Viewers)

[Danceswithhorses]

During a CBSA tour earlier this month, the Arena head of operations (working for Frasers) said that Frasers had invested £13m in infrastructure in the first year after purchase so Frasers considered it a £30m investment (including the £17m purchase price). I suspect we’ve paid upwards of that as I’m sure they won’t be selling it at a loss.

Kind of agree with those guestimated valuations - £30m/40m ish.
DK offered £25m to the receivers when Wasps went bust, and that's without seeing any financial figures, and with multiple years of accrued maintenance to be funded.
Since then, tbf to Frasers, they started to fix up the stadium and make improvements.
Another thing to consider, which we've speculated on SBT many times before, is that finding anywhere in Coventry to build another stadium, was practically impossible.
Also the building costs involved with a new stadium are eye wateringly high eg this arena cost £113m, so if were buying it for £30m/£40m, that looks a bit of a bargain.

 

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[chiefdave]

Large chunks of the administrative spending will be maintenance. Things you only do every 5/10 years that Wasps never did. The Turnover increase coupled with the Gross Margin increase are very impressive.

There was a spreadsheet when Wasps went bust detailing a huge amount (in the tens of millions) of maintenance that needed doing. Some of it pretty critical stuff like fire alarms and CCTV.

While I doubt that everything has been completed if a good chunk of that has been done then maybe we're not that much worse off than if King had bought the place when he bought the club.

In fact you could probably argue that having Kings focus on the club initially rather than having to deal with a run down stadium was an advantage.

 

[Speedie's Head]

Also the building costs involved with a new stadium are eye wateringly high eg this arena cost £113m, so if were buying it for £30m/£40m, that looks a bit of a bargain.

North of the £40m ball park I was thinking yesterday. Maybe the accounts will tell us next year but he was strangely coy about it.

 

[Evo1883]

How much would it cost us to build our own stadium with casino hotel exhibition hall with 11,000 capacity and 3 car parks today ??

 

[Speedie's Head]

How much would it cost us to build our own stadium with casino hotel exhibition hall with 11,000 capacity and 3 car parks today ??

Don't forget that Tesco paid a lot too.

 

[Evo1883]

Don't forget that Tesco paid a lot too.

Yes , generally though what would that cost .. I bet weve paid a fraction of what it would cost today brand new

 

[Captain Dart]

I thought it was 96 as well. Not sure where I got that figure from to be honest.

I think the Council extended the original 100 year lease ACL had to 250 years when they sold the stadium to Wasps.

There was a spreadsheet when Wasps went bust detailing a huge amount (in the tens of millions) of maintenance that needed doing. Some of it pretty critical stuff like fire alarms and CCTV.

While I doubt that everything has been completed if a good chunk of that has been done then maybe we're not that much worse off than if King had bought the place when he bought the club.

In fact you could probably argue that having Kings focus on the club initially rather than having to deal with a run down stadium was an advantage.

Wasps valued it at £60m when they launched their bond scam.

 

[Tommo1993]

I’d say 9 figures wouldn’t be unrealistic. To build the very same from scratch, I mean.

 

[clint van damme]

North of the £40m ball park I was thinking yesterday. Maybe the accounts will tell us next year but he was strangely coy about it.

I thought it sounded more like he couldn't say rather than wouldn't.

 

[chiefdave]

Wasps valued it at £60m when they launched their bond scam.

I remember the insane level of abuse when anyone dared to question the valuation

 

[clint van damme]

I think the Council extended the original 100 year lease ACL had to 250 years when they sold the stadium to Wasps.

Wasps valued it at £60m when they launched their bond scam.

Knew about the lease extension but for some reason thought Frasers had different terms, not sure where I got that from.

 

[Speedie's Head]

Yes , generally though what would that cost .. I bet weve paid a fraction of what it would cost today brand new

It wouldn't be doable outside the prem I don't think. Even in America the Cities generally fund the local stadiums but that's illegal over here.

 

[Flying Fokker]

And that its a 250 year lease.

None of us will ever see a CCFC home game outside the city again

Can I have a life extension?

 

[Speedie's Head]

I thought it sounded more like he couldn't say rather than wouldn't.

Maybe you're right, maybe a bit of both. He hinted that he paid more than he would have liked to anyway.

 

[tisza]

How much would it cost us to build our own stadium with casino hotel exhibition hall with 11,000 capacity and 3 car parks today ??

over 9 figures and that wouldbe without all the Tesco bit etc (which obviously factored in the original land purchase and decontamination etc), I've got the actual arena build and furbishment costs somewhere.(separate from the tesco bit)
edit land purchase & decontamination etc 43 m (which Tesco sale covered) & 65m arena build and furbishment & 9m costs/fees

 

[Hobo]

There was a spreadsheet when Wasps went bust detailing a huge amount (in the tens of millions) of maintenance that needed doing. Some of it pretty critical stuff like fire alarms and CCTV.

While I doubt that everything has been completed if a good chunk of that has been done then maybe we're not that much worse off than if King had bought the place when he bought the club.

In fact you could probably argue that having Kings focus on the club initially rather than having to deal with a run down stadium was an advantage.

Let's be honest squatters would have looked after it better than Wasps.

 

[SkyBluePower]

Wonder what the EFL will think of a Club running a casino at their HOME ground ? Will they allow it given the allergies to gambling in sport these days.

In the SkyBet Championship? Yeah really bothered .

 

[GC1976]

In the SkyBet Championship? Yeah really bothered .

Oh dear. Nobody is interested?

 

[Evo1883]

Wonder what the EFL will think of a Club running a casino at their HOME ground ? Will they allow it given the allergies to gambling in sport these days.

Its none of their business

 

[theferret]

Oh dear. Nobody is interested?

Not really. And we don't 'run a casino', we own a commercial property that sub-lets part of that complex to a licensed 3rd party operator than runs one. It's a complete non issue.

 

[Evo1883]

In regards to the stadium refurbishment.

The part of the stadium thats been painted navy blue by the glass by the away end looks fantastic and clean .

Wouldn't be against the entire end being painted that colour tbh

 

[hill83]

Not really. And we don't 'run a casino', we own a commercial property that sub-lets part of that complex to a licensed 3rd party operator than runs one. It's a complete non issue.

King dishing out decks

 

[long way home]

We have to see what difference the additional income makes by owning the ground and all that comes with it. Im 100% sure Doug knows exactly what he has, but by joining the 2 entities he will be looking to create other opportunities that will generate to increase the income for the club. He knows the value of 1 party ownership and will be happy to have the freedom of decision making that will give him.

Doug will put the best people in the right places to make us a very sustainable and profitable club. He has added unbelievable growth and value already and not sure he has any boundaries on where he wants to take us.

When he leaves this club none of us should forget where the club was off the field when he walked in. Yes we were doing well on the field, but its was a shambles off it and really was a dead duck. Today everything has improved and yer i still see him be able to do more.

Lets see what comes next...

 

[theferret]

In regards to the stadium refurbishment.

The part of the stadium thats been painted navy blue by the glass by the away end looks fantastic and clean .

Wouldn't be against the entire end being painted that colour tbh

Without wishing to create a blue dress controversy, it's anthracite grey, no? My eyes aren't exactly tip top though, so maybe it's me.

 

[SkyBlueBarmy84]

For those (incredibly) still debating whether this is a positive move…

It’s like buying a house with a mortgage; there will be interest to pay on the loan, but at the end of the term, you own an asset vs. renting where you don’t get anything back.

As with a mortgage, you need a chunky deposit - that’s where I think the £15m from earlier in the summer comes in - so, if we assume that’s 40% of the asset value, and we’re borrowing on a 35 year term, with a 4% rate of interest:

- Arena value: £37.5m
- Loan (borrowed): £22.5m
- Monthly repayment: ~£99,624
- Annual repayment: ~£1.20m

So, for approx. the same amount that we were allegedly paying in rent per year, we are paying towards truly owning our own ‘home’ - with the incentive of new revenue streams to offset the loan repayment (assuming the various assets aren’t loss making). If they are loss making, then we reset / reconsider the usage. This all requires working capital, of course, but thats the same with any business.

Either way, I think the medium / long term outlook is very encouraging!

 

[lordy_87]

 

[Evo1883]

Without wishing to create a blue dress controversy, it's anthracite grey, no? My eyes aren't exactly tip top though, so maybe it's me.

I wouldnt argue , thought it looked very nice and wouldnt be against it .

Let's be honest the sky blue facias look tacky a

 

[Speedie's Head]

For those (incredibly) still debating whether this is a positive move…

It’s like buying a house with a mortgage; there will be interest to pay on the loan, but at the end of the term, you own an asset vs. renting where you don’t get anything back.

As with a mortgage, you need a chunky deposit - that’s where I think the £15m from earlier in the summer comes in - so, if we assume that’s 40% of the asset value, and we’re borrowing on a 35 year term, with a 4% rate of interest:

- Arena value: £37.5m
- Loan (borrowed): £22.5m
- Monthly repayment: ~£99,624
- Annual repayment: ~£1.20m

So, for approx. the same amount that we were allegedly paying in rent per year, we are paying towards truly owning our own ‘home’ - with the incentive of new revenue streams to offset the loan repayment (assuming the various assets aren’t loss making). If they are loss making, then we reset / reconsider the usage. This all requires working capital, of course, but thats the same with any business.

Either way, I think the medium / long term outlook is very encouraging!

King did say everything was 100% owned by the club. I wasn't assuming a loan/mortgage from that statement. With the way that the club structures its assets perhaps the football side will pay into the estate side of things. It's probably too early to say.

 

[Evo1883]

King did say everything was 100% owned by the club. I wasn't assuming a loan/mortgage from that statement. With the way that the club structures its assets perhaps the football side will pay into the estate side of things. It's probably too early to say.

You'd have to say though , we are a much more attractive club for investors than we were 48 hours ago .

An 11,000 capacity exhibition hall too .. so much potential to be tapped into

 

[pusbccfc]

How much would it cost us to build our own stadium with casino hotel exhibition hall with 11,000 capacity and 3 car parks today ??

£350m + I reckon. Everton new stadium has cost £800m.

 

[Speedie's Head]

You'd have to say though , we are a much more attractive club for investors than we were 48 hours ago .

An 11,000 capacity exhibition hall too .. so much potential to be tapped into

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Evo1883]

I don't understand what you mean.

Clubs worth more , more valuable to potential investors / new owners in future ?

 

[Speedie's Head]

Clubs worth more , more valuable to potential investors / new owners in future ?

Of course. I said up thread that the value of the club probably doubled overnight. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I do know how bean counters work though and if the "football club" stops paying "rent" to the "Arena" the Arena's paper losses suddenly increase. I was saying that it'll be interesting to see how that all works out in the future and how the "business" is structured.

 

[Evo1883]

Of course. I said up thread that the value of the club probably doubled overnight. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I do know how bean counters work though and if the "football club" stops paying "rent" to the "Arena" the Arena's paper losses suddenly increase. I was saying that it'll be interesting to see how that all works out in the future and how the "business" is structured.

Sorry speedie I wasnt really getting at anything tbh just excited about the endless potential of the arena ( hall, Hotel and casino )and how now the club is just much more attractive now with it all together


I feel like previous arena owners never really tapped fully into the potential at the stadium and there's so much more to be made from it financially

 

[Martw]

Clubs worth more , more valuable to potential investors / new owners in future ?

The club is worth. Lot more than it was on Friday, the whole package is definitely more attractive to investors / potential buyers. It will be so interesting to see what happens over the next 2-3 years with the venue