SCG Minutes from 5th March meeting

[bigfatronssba]

Once again you miss the point which the far more mature DTD acknowledges.

The Trust cannot publically criticise a sports club moving 35 miles and then have its Board members exclaiming the virtues of a club moving 85 miles.

The comparison is wholly appropriate

Can you find a single statement from the SBT or its senior members where they say franchising in sport/rugby is good?

 

[dongonzalos]

Once again Dongle has no counter argument.

There is nothing to counter argue. It is widely accepted on here that you try to derail and take threads off topic. If they question SISU's past tactics or future plans

 

[Ian1779]

Can you find a single statement from the SBT or its senior members where they say franchising in sport/rugby is good?

Some people vehemently argued that going to Sixfields was endorsing the move to Northampton. Attending a Wasps game at the Ricoh would be an endorsement of franchise sport would it not?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some people vehemently argued that going to Sixfields was endorsing the move to Northampton. Attending a Wasps game at the Ricoh would be an endorsement of franchise sport would it not?

Steve also posted things like 'We don't care what the Wasps owners do' and so on.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Steve also posted things like 'We don't care what the Wasps owners do' and so on.

And why should he?
After all he is not on there trust is he?

The wasps will do what is right for their club just ashamed our do not!!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Your suggested approach is confrontational.

The trust strategy has to have diplomacy. You can't just "shake a fist"
at Tim Fisher and he will hold his hands up and say "you've got me there boys"

If they want some information on the concept behind the stadium they should for a start do some background work. There are other clubs that are looking at new builds and have approval. See what their strategies are and the funding needed and timescales.

Having some knowledge then request a formal presentation from the club for its strategy. Then it should politely challenge and question - "well that's interesting but the Bristol Rovers model works like this" - "it took Scunthorpe this many years to get permission so is your timescale realistic"

QUOTE]



Like the ones I raised in this thread you mean?

I have been to meetings with TM and a member of the board and I can honestly say that all the meetings have been held without a raised voice or fist shaking.
Still got nothing from them so that approach does jot work nor does any other as you just get a quote like it is happening but...

So as usual you believe what you want to without having any facts.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Some people vehemently argued that going to Sixfields was endorsing the move to Northampton. Attending a Wasps game at the Ricoh would be an endorsement of franchise sport would it not?

So did any of those members of the trust that you are now criticising, argue that going to Sixfields meant endorsing the move?

 

[Nick]

Can you find a single statement from the SBT or its senior members where they say franchising in sport/rugby is good?

Have a look through Steve and Jan's posts. The ones including not giving a shit about their fans, how great the move is or the ones about not giving a shit about where they had come from and that top class rugby is here now.

What about the posts that said anybody who attends Sixfields are behind the move (or just watching their football team they have supported for years), so what is attending the game of a rugby team they have no affinity with?

It works both ways doesn't it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And why should he?
After all he is not on there trust is he?

The wasps will do what is right for their club just ashamed our do not!!

For a start Wasps are our landlords and they will decide on what terms we get to stay at the Ricoh when we haven't built the Fish Bowl. Second of all Wasps decided that the right thing for their club was to take it 80 miles from home-when moving less than half that distance created uproar from the likes of yourself and the Trust (and rightly so). It is total and utter hypocrisy to slam one club for temporarily moving location and praise another which has permanently moved even further.

 

[Grendel]

There is nothing to counter argue. It is widely accepted on here that you try to derail and take threads off topic. If they question SISU's past tactics or future plans

No it's not widely acknowledged - the reality is you preach long empty diatribe with no substance.

And I can assure you - many of us think that.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Have a look through Steve and Jan's posts. The ones including not giving a shit about their fans, how great the move is or the ones about not giving a shit about where they had come from and that top class rugby is here now.

What about the posts that said anybody who attends Sixfields are behind the move (or just watching their football team they have supported for years), so what is attending the game of a rugby team they have no affinity with?

It works both ways doesn't it?

Your doing it again aren't you? Criticising individuals for things someone else said. How about I claim you thought Sixfields was great because RFC posted on here it that he liked it?

When did any senior members of the trust criticise anyone for going to Sixfields?

 

[skybluefred]

No it's not widely acknowledged - the reality is you preach long empty diatribe with no substance.

And I can assure you - many of us think that.

You and your shadow does not count as many.

 

[bigfatronssba]

For a start Wasps are our landlords and they will decide on what terms we get to stay at the Ricoh when we haven't built the Fish Bowl. Second of all Wasps decided that the right thing for their club was to take it 80 miles from home-when moving less than half that distance created uproar from the likes of yourself and the Trust (and rightly so). It is total and utter hypocrisy to slam one club for temporarily moving location and praise another which has permanently moved even further.

Can I just ask, at what point did you become critical of Wasps for moving out of their home town? 2007 or 2014?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Can I just ask, at what point did you become critical of Wasps for moving out of their home town? 2007 or 2014?

Not being a follower of domestic rugby teams based in London I can't say I cared much in 2007 but obviously I'm not going to praise either scenario. Don't see what this has to do with the main point of what I was saying which is that it's hypocritical to defend Wasps for doing a more extreme version of what SISU did to us.

 

[dongonzalos]

No it's not widely acknowledged - the reality is you preach long empty diatribe with no substance.

And I can assure you - many of us think that.

It is

If you were an American Wrestle you would be called "The Ultimate Derailer" or "The King of Deflections" or simply "Mr Off Topic"

 

[bigfatronssba]

Not being a follower of domestic rugby teams based in London I can't say I cared much in 2007 but obviously I'm not going to praise either scenario. Don't see what this has to do with the main point of what I was saying which is that it's hypocritical to defend Wasps for doing a more extreme version of what SISU did to us.

The point is you didn't care before 2014 because it had no impact on you or the team you support.

City fans going to Wasps games has no impact on our Sky Blues, so there is no conflict of views.

Your claiming that franchising is wrong and evil and shouldn't be supported, but didn't care until it affected you. That's no different to the people you are now criticising.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

When did any senior members of the trust criticise anyone for going to Sixfields?

Hmmmm, not keen where this is going personally.

The best thing to say, maybe, is that after feelings cooled down a bit, certain members got a bit more attuned to the need to not criticise other fans, and in that respect it's fair play for listening and at least being pragmatic and trying to be open minded, whatever personal views.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The point is you didn't care before 2014 because it had no impact on you or the team you support.

City fans going to Wasps games has no impact on our Sky Blues, so there is no conflict of views.

Your claiming that franchising is wrong and evil and shouldn't be supported, but didn't care until it affected you. That's no different to the people you are now criticising.

I am not alert to the situation of every sports club in the country, sue me. The conflict arises in praising the present owners of the Ricoh and therefore our landlords in doing what our owners were criticised for doing a moderate version of. It is that simple, it is hypocritical and people who want good relations with Wasps should be aware of it. To not be aware of something is not the same as defending it-there is no hypocrisy in that.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I am not alert to the situation of every sports club in the country, sue me. The conflict arises in praising the present owners of the Ricoh and therefore our landlords in doing what our owners were criticised for doing a moderate version of. It is that simple, it is hypocritical and people who want good relations with Wasps should be aware of it. To not be aware of something is not the same as defending it-there is no hypocrisy in that.

See I think its hypocritical to pretend to care about what another club is doing as much as your own one.

I personally couldn't give a shit about what Wasps have done. I only care about CCFC, and I suspect you do as well.

I don't understand the crocodile tears from city fans over Wasps.

 

[Ian1779]

The point is you didn't care before 2014 because it had no impact on you or the team you support.

City fans going to Wasps games has no impact on our Sky Blues, so there is no conflict of views.

Your claiming that franchising is wrong and evil and shouldn't be supported, but didn't care until it affected you. That's no different to the people you are now criticising.

Whereas you are defending it... because it means SISU had one put over them.

 

[Nick]

Your doing it again aren't you? Criticising individuals for things someone else said. How about I claim you thought Sixfields was great because RFC posted on here it that he liked it?

When did any senior members of the trust criticise anyone for going to Sixfields?

Killing the club, no morals to name 2 without searching.

Not to mention Jan's rant if people were to go to a city game when the talk about Bermuda about how they would be selfish etc. (Just after he said he didn't give a shit about Wasps fans)

 

[Nick]

See I think its hypocritical to pretend to care about what another club is doing as much as your own one.

I personally couldn't give a shit about what Wasps have done. I only care about CCFC, and I suspect you do as well.

I don't understand the crocodile tears from city fans over Wasps.

Nobody is crying, merely pointing out that the majority of people who seem to back it so much are the people who hate SISU for doing it to us and are most vocal about it on here etc.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You see... I do care when other clubs move.

In the wider context it eats away at sport, an identity of both club and place, and erodes tradition and a sense of heritage, permanence.

As the strings loosen, if such events pass without comment it increases the chances of other clubs moving later; it also invalidates arguments for keeping a club at one geographic space.

Now... fine if you're OK with clubs moving. Also if people want to go and watch Wasps then, again, fine.

But then best not to be surprised when the consequence further down the line is that other clubs tan Wasps take off from other places, and the already frayed ropes end up snapping.

 

[dongonzalos]

Nobody is crying, merely pointing out that the majority of people who seem to back it so much are the people who hate SISU for doing it to us and are most vocal about it on here etc.

Who are you referring to?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Whereas you are defending it... because it means SISU had one put over them.

Where have I defended it?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Nobody is crying, merely pointing out that the majority of people who seem to back it so much are the people who hate SISU for doing it to us and are most vocal about it on here etc.

The majority don't care.

As city fans we have enough to worry about regarding our own club.

With everything that is wrong with CCFC, I don't understand the obsessive nature of some of our fans over a rugby club that means nothing to them.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

So now most of us agree with Peter Ward then?

 

[Nick]

Who are you referring to?

I am not naming names or trying to drag individuals through the mud, as NW has said they have since come out and admitted their thoughts were wrong and water under the bridge.

 

[Nick]

The majority don't care.

As city fans we have enough to worry about regarding our own club.

With everything that is wrong with CCFC, I don't understand the obsessive nature of some of our fans over a rugby club that means nothing to them.

Sorry, I should have put on here rather than in general.

Have a look at the people who go to Wasps games on here, then look at their past posts / views on Sixfields.

Nobody is obsessing over Wasps, just pointing out how some people are so keen to change when it suits.

 

[dongonzalos]

So now most of us agree with Peter Ward then?

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/23384-CCFC-STATEMENT-and-who-the-fook-is-Peter-Ward-Bugger-off

 

[dongonzalos]

I am not naming names or trying to drag individuals through the mud, as NW has said they have since come out and admitted their thoughts were wrong and water under the bridge.

So why do you keep bringing it up?

Myself personally Northampton was never about Franchising as we can't Franchise. So that point is irrelevant.
I didn't agree with Northampton however I blamed our owners and the FL.
You can't blame Northampton it was a no brainer for them. As it was for CCC.
So I struggle with the comparisons.
Yes it is harsh by Wasps owners on their fans down there. That's the same parallel.
I didn't think people should have gone to Sixfields if they wanted us back quicker. Not as a moral protest over Franchising as we were not a Franchise

 

[Nick]

So why do you keep bringing it up?

Myself personally Northampton was never about Franchising as we can't Franchise. So that point is irrelevant.
I didn't agree with Northampton however I blamed our owners and the FL.
You can't blame Northampton it was a no brainer for them. As it was for CCC.
So I struggle with the comparisons.
Yes it is harsh by Wasps owners on their fans down there. That's the same parallel.
I didn't think people should have gone to Sixfields if they wanted us back quicker. Not as a moral protest over Franchising as we were not a Franchise

Erm, I was asked the question directly?

He tried to imply I was making things up, I wasn't. It happened.

I said I didn't want to start naming names to drag it up again.

 

[Ian1779]

So why do you keep bringing it up?

Myself personally Northampton was never about Franchising as we can't Franchise. So that point is irrelevant.
I didn't agree with Northampton however I blamed our owners and the FL.
You can't blame Northampton it was a no brainer for them. As it was for CCC.
So I struggle with the comparisons.
Yes it is harsh by Wasps owners on their fans down there. That's the same parallel.
I didn't think people should have gone to Sixfields if they wanted us back quicker. Not as a moral protest over Franchising as we were not a Franchise

I think people take more issue with the fact that CCC went down the line of emotional blackmail - 'no club should ever be out of it's home town' was the line I believe.

We were barely back in town before they sold out to Wasps, even after telling everybody that ACL was going from strength to strength... another pile of bullshit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Personally the move to Sixfields pissed me of because it was blatantly obvious if SISU had of put one tenth of the effort they made into making sure we left the Ricoh into making sure we stayed we would have stayed.

We left because they decided we were. It wouldn't have mattered at the time what ACL offered them we were leaving on SISU's win and for no other reason.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Hmmmm, not keen where this is going personally.

The best thing to say, maybe, is that after feelings cooled down a bit, certain members got a bit more attuned to the need to not criticise other fans, and in that respect it's fair play for listening and at least being pragmatic and trying to be open minded, whatever personal views.

So the other 10,000 that stayed away kept quiet then.

As for being Members of the trust are these people not allowed to have their own views?

In am a member and I don't agree with everything they do but hay it is a democracy if we don't like the leaders we can always change them.

Then again wouldn't matter who we got they would still get the same shit from the same posters :thinking about: