Rent (7 Viewers)

Godiva · Aug 8, 2012

Coundonskyblue says 'with sisu the club has no future'. He's wrong. It's without sisu the club has no future.

The rent is disporportional ... way too high.
Sisu have over the past 1½ year done their best to balance costs and income and the rent issue seem to be the last item on the cost saving agenda.

In court I think both parties will agree to an independant mediator who's job it will be to find the right rent price.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 8, 2012

Contract law gives protection if it can be proven that the contract was unfair at the time it was signed . It does not provide protection just because the tenant cannot operate its business successfully 6 years later.

ACL, Council, Charity have all said they are willing to talk and to look at ways to help ............... only problem with that is CCFC & SISU have not engaged in any meaningful talks ............. they have simply said we are not paying it.

There is a deal to be done certainly ....... but should it be at the cost of ACL's viability just because SISU want to play hard ball and not pay anything.

Think people should consider what the end game actually is ...... it isnt the rent ..... it isnt CCFC ........ think about it....

Grendel · Aug 8, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Contract law gives protection if it can be proven that the contract was unfair at the time it was signed . It does not provide protection just because the tenant cannot operate its business successfully 6 years later.

ACL, Council, Charity have all said they are willing to talk and to look at ways to help ............... only problem with that is CCFC & SISU have not engaged in any meaningful talks ............. they have simply said we are not paying it.

Have they stated a refusal to pay anything? I suspect the courts will force a settlement between the two.

usskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Contract law gives protection if it can be proven that the contract was unfair at the time it was signed . It does not provide protection just because the tenant cannot operate its business successfully 6 years later.

ACL, Council, Charity have all said they are willing to talk and to look at ways to help ............... only problem with that is CCFC & SISU have not engaged in any meaningful talks ............. they have simply said we are not paying it.

I thought SISU and Higgs did talk about buying a half of the stadium and the council are more than aware that SISU thinks that the rent is far too high for the business to sustain..

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

Grendel said:
Have they stated a refusal to pay anything? I suspect the courts will force a settlement between the two.

Yes by not paying anything. If they were being even remotely reasonable they would have paid the amount they consider a fair rent.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 8, 2012

The case is to enforce the terms of the contract Grendel ...... it isnt for the court to force a solution. ACL have to prove it is a valid debt ...... CCFC have to prove it isnt.... the court will decide if it is or isnt. When you go to court it is on specific issues not a wide ranging review of financial performance and if it can be afforded by a tenant now on hard times.

valiant15 · Aug 8, 2012

Godiva you really are a worm aren't you. You call yourself a coventrian? You are a fucking joke,should we have let the germans do the same? Wanker.

usskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

valiant15 said:
Godiva you really are a worm aren't you. You call yourself a coventrian? You are a fecking joke,should we have let the germans do the same? Wanker.

...and he's off

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

Godiva said:
Coundonskyblue says 'with sisu the club has no future'. He's wrong. It's without sisu the club has no future.

The rent is disporportional ... way too high.
Sisu have over the past 1½ year done their best to balance costs and income and the rent issue seem to be the last item on the cost saving agenda.

In court I think both parties will agree to an independant mediator who's job it will be to find the right rent price.

Yet despite this the club is still losing millions a year and edging closer and closer to admin/liquidation. A massive rent reduction of say 90% would see the club save around £900k a year. Where will the next lot of savings/increase in income that is needed going to come from?

Some seem to think a rent reduction now and in 2 years we will be in the Prem. A rent reduction will make very little difference to the club.

What future do you think we have with Sisu? More relegations?

You might be happy for a bunch of incompotent businessmen running our club, I am not.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 8, 2012

usskyblue said:
I thought SISU and Higgs did talk about buying a half of the stadium and the council are more than aware that SISU thinks that the rent is far too high for the business to sustain..

NO SISU were in talks about buying the Charity shares in ACL ..... not half the stadium ...... and the period of due diligence is now passed with no agreement reached as far as we are aware

I think my rent is too high too doesnt mean my landlord has to reduce it. The lease is with ACL not the council. Both Council & Charity have repeatedly said they want to help but not until there is a viable business plan at CCFC and not at the expense of bankrupting ACL

Godiva · Aug 8, 2012

valiant15 said:
Godiva you really are a worm aren't you. You call yourself a coventrian? You are a fucking joke,should we have let the germans do the same? Wanker.

We were at war with the germans ... we are not at war with sisu. Well, maybe you are.

Sick Boy · Aug 8, 2012

valiant15 said:
Godiva you really are a worm aren't you. You call yourself a coventrian? You are a fucking joke,should we have let the germans do the same? Wanker.

Bloody hell.

ashbyjan · Aug 8, 2012

To be pedantic the rent has been paid - paid out of the escrow account and its the contractual obligation to keep the escrow account at £500k that is in dispute. It is almost down to zero and I expect ACL's argument is that the club has received substantial transfer fees for players but even now it has funds they are showing no intention to fulfill their legal obligation re the rental agreement. The council via ACL has shown willingness to negotiate and compromise but SISU have so far not been willing to do so. I am sure this game of brinkmanship will end up with a compromise because going to court simply cost money neither side really has. If this issue isn't resolved it is this whole dispute that could cause SISU to pull the plug and cut their losses.

lordsummerisle · Aug 8, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
NO SISU were in talks about buying the Charity shares in ACL ..... not half the stadium ...... and the period of due diligence is now passed with no agreement reached as far as we are aware

I think my rent is too high too doesnt mean my landlord has to reduce it. The lease is with ACL not the council. Both Council & Charity have repeatedly said they want to help but not until there is a viable business plan at CCFC and not at the expense of bankrupting ACL

If a reduction in the rent will bankrupt ACL then we shouldn't be going anywhere near buying the place, loss-making enough on our own.

Godiva · Aug 8, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Yet despite this the club is still losing millions a year and edging closer and closer to admin/liquidation. A massive rent reduction of say 90% would see the club save around £900k a year. Where will the next lot of savings/increase in income that is needed going to come from?

Some seem to think a rent reduction now and in 2 years we will be in the Prem. A rent reduction will make very little difference to the club.

What future do you think we have with Sisu? More relegations?

You might be happy for a bunch of incompotent businessmen running our club, I am not.

I don't think we are losing millions a year - that's old figures. We don't know what it will be this season.

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

ashbyjan said:
To be pedantic the rent has been paid - paid out of the escrow account and its the contractual obligation to keep the escrow account at £500k that is in dispute. It is almost down to zero and I expect ACL's argument is that the club has received substantial transfer fees for players but even now it has funds they are showing no intention to fulfill their legal obligation re the rental agreement. The council via ACL has shown willingness to negotiate and compromise but SISU have so far not been willing to do so. I am sure this game of brinkmanship will end up with a compromise because going to court simply cost money neither side really has. If this issue isn't resolved it is this whole dispute that could cause SISU to pull the plug and cut their losses.

Have we now not reached the stage where because the escrow account is empty ACL cannot draw from it?

I seem to remember a email on here off Mutton saying that ACL were unwilling to take legal action while it could still draw on the escrow account. (Maybe not in them exact words!)

usskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Yet despite this the club is still losing millions a year and edging closer and closer to admin/liquidation. A massive rent reduction of say 90% would see the club save around £900k a year. Where will the next lot of savings/increase in income that is needed going to come from?

Some seem to think a rent reduction now and in 2 years we will be in the Prem. A rent reduction will make very little difference to the club.

What future do you think we have with Sisu? More relegations?

You might be happy for a bunch of incompotent businessmen running our club, I am not.

None of us are happy...but some of us understand there doesn't appear to be an alternative right now...

...unless you can shed some light on a stupid billionaire that doesn't care for making any kind of return on his investment...

thegameaintstraight · Aug 8, 2012

Grendel said:
No they would not. Contract Law gives some protection against unfair contracts. Surely you want SISU to get a reduction? Without it the club has no future.

Since when has the Law been fair?
The outcome in such matters hinges on who has the best (most expensive) brief and often bears little relation to ALL the facts.
I am with ACL on this.

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

usskyblue said:
None of us are happy...but some of us understand there doesn't appear to be an alternative right now...

...unless you can shed some light on a stupid billionaire that doesn't care for making any kind of return on his investment...

I agree there is no alternative. Primarily because Sisu won't give up money it has invested in the club.

There is no alternative to paying the rent to ACL because CCFC signed a legal document saying they would.

ACL also have bills to pay, yet Sisu expect ACL to give up money it has invested into the Ricoh, yet Sisu won't do the same themselves.

The soothsayer · Aug 8, 2012

Grendel said:
But if you lived in a studio bedsit in Hillfields and was charged a rent equivalent to a 5 bedroom house on the Kenilworth Road you would argue the contract was unfair and disproportionate.

Christ, these people have lawyers coming out of their earholes. they are not nieve 18 yearold students. nobody held a gun to their heads and made them sign the rent agreement, for gods sake stop trying to make excuses up for these clowns. if i signed a rent agreement i would have to honour it ,fact, so should they, end of. ps. wait for the day somebody stiffs you on a deal ,then i tell you ,let it go son..lets see how you react then..

Lord_Nampil · Aug 8, 2012

When was the rent agreement signed?? Was the rent agreement for the stadium the same before sisu came in?? If it was different how different was it, should the agreement have a sliding scale depending on what division the club are in? i.e. pay more for Prem but less for league 1 and 2 etc...

Think its now coming to a head, ACL may want there money but having no club in the stadium to me is not an option, so a compromise needs to be made, Fisher and co have restructured the club on and off the pitch, the rent agreement is the final part that needs to complete the restructuring and it needs to benefit all parties (ACl,Council and the club)

on twitter @SGL believes ACL and the council are following the processes they need to when events unfold, he thinks it will get sorted but not in the short term.

Grendel · Aug 8, 2012

The soothsayer said:
Christ, these people have lawyers coming out of their earholes. they are not nieve 18 yearold students. nobody held a gun to their heads and made them sign the rent agreement, for gods sake stop trying to make excuses up for these clowns. if i signed a rent agreement i would have to honour it ,fact, so should they, end of. ps. wait for the day somebody stiffs you on a deal ,then i tell you ,let it go son..lets see how you react then..

So I assume if sisu say we are fully commited to paying the rent and to do this will sell half the squad and rely on the youth team you are 100% supportive of this?

grego_gee · Aug 8, 2012

Maybe my understading is not correct, I'm sure OSB will confirm things for me

ACL are the landlord
CCFC are the tennant
CCFC use the stadium for 20/30 home games during a 9/10 month season
CCFC pay rent of approx £100k a month including out of season months
Despite CCFC paying £100k a month in the close season ACL have let the stadium out for the Olympics

I think SISU just want ACL to have the discomfort to have to go in front of a judge and explain this...

Sick Boy · Aug 8, 2012

thegameaintstraight said:
I am with ACL on this.

Even if it means CCFC are liquidated?

Grendel · Aug 8, 2012

Sick Boy said:
Even if it means CCFC are liquidated?

Of course it's how stupid some people are.

torchomatic · Aug 8, 2012

I never fail to be surprised that so many fans still want ACL to take the Club to court. Weird.

Sick Boy · Aug 8, 2012

grego_gee said:
Maybe my understading is not correct, I'm sure OSB will confirm things for me

ACL are the landlord
CCFC are the tennant
CCFC use the stadium for 20/30 home games during a 9/10 month season
CCFC pay rent of approx £100k a month including out of season months
Despite CCFC paying £100k a month in the close season ACL have let the stadium out for the Olympics

I think SISU just want ACL to have the discomfort to have to go in front of a judge and explain this...

Whatever people say about SISU, they are no mugs and will have got extensive legal advice on this.

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

If ccfc get away with this then were no better than Portsmouth.

Grendel · Aug 8, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
If ccfc get away with this then were no better than Portsmouth.

Probably the most pathetic statement i have seen on here. Just tell me how many creditors would have been paid and for how long if mr Coventry Robinson and co carried on?

oldskyblue58 · Aug 8, 2012

ACL and its owners could lose out if the court case went to the end game ............ but would it be possible establish a CCFC new co that plays at the Ricoh with new owners - perhaps. Not a great prospect but going to the end game might only mean relatively short term hardship for ACL.

Would SISU want that .............. no there is too much to lose. Could SISU establish a new co CCFC - well yes but would need a ground to play at, might not be easy to get in Coventry.

The reason that ACL are going to court is not to nail the Club or drive it out of business ...... it is to force TF & SISU to come to the table and talk to get a solution that is a good compromise for all.

torchomatic · Aug 8, 2012

Absolute nonsense. We have certainly not tried to live beyond our means paying out stupid wages on players we can't afford. We've not gone into admin or liquidation.

It seems your hate for SISU outweighs any concern for the club's future.

coundonskyblue said:
If ccfc get away with this then were no better than Portsmouth.

The soothsayer · Aug 8, 2012

Grendel said:
So I assume if sisu say we are fully commited to paying the rent and to do this will sell half the squad and rely on the youth team you are 100% supportive of this?

so if sisu are not blackmailing the council, they are blackmailing the fans with threat of selling players to finance the rent? great ! keep justifying the actions of this shower and making arguments for them. They have funds to pay what they owe , they should honour their commitments. not weazel their way out of them with the help of cheerleaders like you. make no mistake if you owed sisu money they would be ruthless in recovering it. its called business.

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

Grendel said:
Probably the most pathetic statement i have seen on here. Just tell me how many creditors would have been paid and for how long if mr Coventry Robinson and co carried on?

I have nothing but disdain for the old board, why because im anti sisu do you assume im pro Robinson, Richardson etc? There both as bad as each other.

coundonskyblue · Aug 8, 2012

torchomatic said:
Absolute nonsense. We have certainly not tried to live beyond our means paying out stupid wages on players we can't afford. We've not gone into admin or liquidation.
 
It seems your hate for SISU outweighs any concern for the club's future.

No instead we just live beyond our means by getting the council to build us a stadium we couldn't afford to pay rent on.

TheParsonsHose · Aug 8, 2012

torchomatic said:
I never fail to be surprised that so many fans still want ACL to take the Club to court. Weird.

So they should thats what happens torchie when youd dont pay rent. what do you think they should do?

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