Protest Tuesday (1 Viewer)

duffer · Oct 6, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Beginning to feel like this is a sign of how many people have given up on CCFC and/or feel defeated. If at Highfield Road we'd been told we were going to be the junior partner to a west London rugby club and Wasps signs started to go up on the stands do you think no one would have done anything about it?

What depresses me is how many people will go along with it, because there's a slight possiblity that it might suit CCFC, or perhaps more accurately not suit SISU.

To mix a metaphor, people have grasped onto that straw and thrown their morals out of the window.

If the council vote for this they will have definitely screwed over Wasps, probably knackered Cov RFC, and taken a huge gamble on whether CCFC actually stay in the city. And for what, to sell off a business that we've already been told is profitable and sustainable?

MichaelCCFC · Oct 6, 2014

chiefdave said:
Problem is unless we're going to try and register it as a community asset and buy it ourselves (as in the fans not SISU) what can we do? Our owners repeatedly say they are not interested in the Ricoh and are building a new ground. We can't force them to buy it.

with my usual mantra of team and fans first (and acl-sisu's priority is their own finances not the team and fans) I've always argued that an application for the ricoh as an asset of community value should be made and it's still not too late (nearly)

MichaelCCFC · Oct 6, 2014

duffer said:
What depresses me is how many people will go along with it, because there's a slight possiblity that it might suit CCFC, or perhaps more accurately not suit SISU.

To mix a metaphor, people have grasped onto that straw and thrown their morals out of the window.

If the council vote for this they will have definitely screwed over Wasps, probably knackered Cov RFC, and taken a huge gamble on whether CCFC actually stay in the city. And for what, to sell off a business that we've already been told is profitable and sustainable?

Agree entirely but someone/group needs take a lead on this

Rob S · Oct 6, 2014

OK, here's the deal. Short version:
There is likely to be media there from 1pm tomorrow – including Les Reid who is now freelance – they will want to talk to fans who are willing, but this is not a protest linked to or organised by ANY existing fans group, including GCBTTR.

Longer version with more detail:

If there are any fans going to the Council House from 1pm tomorrow, there might be a BBC OB crew covering the whole story and they will want to talk to fans. Same for later on.

I'm assuming there might be fans going there from 1pm to lobby councillors going into the meeting as well as to actually attend the meeting itself in the public gallery until they get moved out for the private session.

At some point...maybe 5–6pm or later we will find out the result. Of course we may already know the result tonight following the Labour Group meeting which will almost definitely take place in the Council House. Attendees will probably use a side entrance ;-)

I've spoken with Stuart Cosgrove (co-coordinator of Get Cov Back to the Ricoh (GCBTTR)) and he will be at the Trust meeting tonight and probably at the Council House tomorrow but this is in no way a GCBTTR protest. Wasn't our idea, we didn't start this thread and we only announced it in our recent press release because people here were asking the Trust, KCIC & GCBTTR to get behind it.

I get the feeling that a few people who might have been more up for a demo have now been convinced of the value of trying to force Sisu out by this sale going through so they are now standing down. Fair enough, although I will point to our recent history as evidence of how badly this kind of tactic can backfire. Sure we can always blame Sisu for everything that ever happens but it doesn't actually help move our club forward.

Rob S · Oct 6, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
Agree entirely but someone/group needs take a lead on this

Well KCIC (via you?) have said they back the Trust. The Trust have been eerily quiet and there seem to be rumours swirling around that the board might be happy for this to go though – maybe we'll find out tonight – and Get Cov Back to the Ricoh are, well, to be honest, feeling like this is a bit of a set up. Would you stand with Stuart Cosgrove tomorrow and present a united front with two dozen people in the rain?

MichaelCCFC · Oct 6, 2014

Rob S said:
Well KCIC (via you?) have said they back the Trust. The Trust have been eerily quiet and there seem to be rumours swirling around that the board might be happy for this to go though – maybe we'll find out tonight – and Get Cov Back to the Ricoh are, well, to be honest, feeling like this is a bit of a set up. Would you stand with Stuart Cosgrove tomorrow and present a united front with two dozen people in the rain?

For the umpteenth time, kcic did its job and it's now up to others to do their bit - anything I post on here now is as an individual fan.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Not as bleak as us leaving in 4 years and having nowhere to play though, Stu. That scenario for me is so much worse.

Is Sisu can't distress ACL or get the Ricoh on the cheap they seem dead set on moving to a new stadium that we pretty all believe will never, ever be built.

I really think in all this talk of financial benefit, people miss the intangible and the social.

It's not as sexy to be a cultural theorist as an accountant alas, when it comes to winning hearts and minds.

chiefdave · Oct 6, 2014

Rob S said:
Get Cov Back to the Ricoh are, well, to be honest, feeling like this is a bit of a set up.

In what way? It feels like that to me as well but I can't work out who is doing the setting up or what is going on in the background.

The only conclusions I can draw from the conversation you had with Joy about SISU not being interested in owning the Ricoh is one of:
1) They are incompetent at levels way above what we previously imagined
2) There really is going to be a new ground
3) They are somehow involved in this deal, either in a way that sees them owning a stake in the Ricoh or them selling the club to whoever buys the ground.

Nothing else makes sense to me. Why would you just stand by and let this happen. If SISU wanted to whip fans up she just needed to say to you they had asked about bidding but been rejected, sure people would have still said formally submit a bid, but she's made a statement that is pretty much the only possible thing she could have said to put people off protesting!

chiefdave · Oct 6, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
For the umpteenth time, kcic did its job and it's now up to others to do their bit - anything I post on here now is as an individual fan.

Personally I think it's better not to have any fragmented groups. The best course of action would be to bring it up at the trust meeting and go from there. A united front is needed now and going forward and I think the trust, as a formal organisation with a constitution, are best placed to do that.

Rob S · Oct 6, 2014

MichaelCCFC said:
For the umpteenth time, kcic did its job and it's now up to others to do their bit - anything I post on here now is as an individual fan.

Apologies for missing that. Welcome to the world of being mis-represented by someone leading another fan group ;-)

I think one key thing here is today's Labour Group meeting. I will assume that knowledge of the outcome will worm its way out somehow...we may even find out at the Trust meeting tonight.

And maybe that is the way forward...I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion at the Trust meeting tonight and maybe something can come from there?

[EDIT: chiefdave said it too. Jinx!]

MichaelCCFC · Oct 6, 2014

chiefdave said:
Personally I think it's better not to have any fragmented groups. The best course of action would be to bring it up at the trust meeting and go from there. A united front is needed now and going forward and I think the trust, as a formal organisation with a constitution, are best placed to do that.

Agree. We all need to unite behind the Trust

Rob S · Oct 6, 2014

chiefdave said:
In what way? It feels like that to me as well but I can't work out who is doing the setting up or what is going on in the background.

The only conclusions I can draw from the conversation you had with Joy about SISU not being interested in owning the Ricoh is one of:
1) They are incompetent at levels way above what we previously imagined
2) There really is going to be a new ground
3) They are somehow involved in this deal, either in a way that sees them owning a stake in the Ricoh or them selling the club to whoever buys the ground.

Nothing else makes sense to me. Why would you just stand by and let this happen. If SISU wanted to whip fans up she just needed to say to you they had asked about bidding but been rejected, sure people would have still said formally submit a bid, but she's made a statement that is pretty much the only possible thing she could have said to put people off protesting!

Set-up in terms of getting ACL so that Sisu can't and pressuring the club/Sisu from there. It's all very well asking why Sisu are carrying on with what they've been saying they'll do but we really need to be looking at who the hell is behind this Wasps deal and their game plan.

duffer · Oct 6, 2014

chiefdave said:
In what way? It feels like that to me as well but I can't work out who is doing the setting up or what is going on in the background.

The only conclusions I can draw from the conversation you had with Joy about SISU not being interested in owning the Ricoh is one of:
1) They are incompetent at levels way above what we previously imagined
2) There really is going to be a new ground
3) They are somehow involved in this deal, either in a way that sees them owning a stake in the Ricoh or them selling the club to whoever buys the ground.

Nothing else makes sense to me. Why would you just stand by and let this happen. If SISU wanted to whip fans up she just needed to say to you they had asked about bidding but been rejected, sure people would have still said formally submit a bid, but she's made a statement that is pretty much the only possible thing she could have said to put people off protesting!

Option 4, Chief - they don't think it's worth what Wasps are paying for it, and perhaps hope to slide in afterwards and pick up the pieces?

If you look at London Welsh, and how their franchise to Oxford seems to be playing out (rock bottom of the division, attendances around 3,000) that might not be a daft play. I hope CCC have considered what might happen in the eventuality of Wasps going pop.

italiahorse · Oct 6, 2014

The only reason we would protest surely is if CCFC can get a chance of buying into the Ricoh.
Surely if Sisu say they don't want it now, have offered well under it's value and are not bothered about anyone else buying into it it is wasted effort.

In addition I have seen nothing from Cov RFC or Wasps who are the only people definitely effected.
Are we taking up their fight, unlike NTFC fans, who didn't take up ours.

I'm hopeful for a win win outcome, due to everybody being quiet, but without details we won't know until it's agreed.

Nothing changes for CCFC as we will continue to rent off ACL as agreed with SISU. (Another deal we know nothing about !!)

chiefdave · Oct 6, 2014

duffer said:
Option 4, Chief - they don't think it's worth what Wasps are paying for it, and perhaps hope to slide in afterwards and pick up the pieces.

Maybe, although it has been claimed that the council are rushing this through and selling it on the cheap!

Nick · Oct 6, 2014

italiahorse said:
The only reason we would protest surely is if CCFC can get a chance of buying into the Ricoh.
Surely if Sisu say they don't want it now, have offered well under it's value and are not bothered about anyone else buying into it it is wasted effort.

In addition I have seen nothing from Cov RFC or Wasps who are the only people definitely effected.
Are we taking up their fight, unlike NTFC fans, who didn't take up ours.

I'm hopeful for a win win outcome, due to everybody being quiet, but without details we won't know until it's agreed.

Nothing changes for CCFC as we will continue to rent off ACL as agreed with SISU. (Another deal we know nothing about !!)

Plenty of posts from Wasps fans and Cov RFC fans on here about it.

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Nick said:
Plenty of posts from Wasps fans and Cov RFC fans on here about it.

Not trying to be funny, but have just gone over to the Cov rugby forum and most of them don't seem as up in arms as some on here make out.

It's quite balanced I think and not a lot of spitting blood. Maybe rugby fans are a different breed, but I was expecting total outrage and found it's very much a mixed bag of views.

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Not trying to be funny, but have just gone over to the Cov rugby forum and most of them don't seem as up in arms as some on here make out.

It's quite balanced I think and not a lot of spitting blood. Maybe rugby fans are a different breed, but I was expecting totaly outrage and it's very much a mixed bag of views.

Quite surprising some of the comments.

When we were told of Northampton we were indeed spitting blood and full of anger and outrage.

I've seen a few comments on the Cov forum, such as this and it did surprise me somewhat.

Personally I'd hope we never have a cuckoo in the nest team called 'Coventry Wasps' playing in the city. Perhaps the 'Wandering Wasps' or 'Wasp Exiles'.

If the cuckoo does nest I hope that cov do make the best of a bad job and take any advantage there is {if any} from this intrusion to improve Cov rugby's lot and keep cov progressing up the tables.

Nick · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Not trying to be funny, but have just gone over to the Cov rugby forum and most of them don't seem as up in arms as some on here make out.

It's quite balanced I think and not a lot of spitting blood. Maybe rugby fans are a different breed, but I was expecting totaly outrage and it's very much a mixed bag of views.

To be fair I have only seen ones of people on here who said they were fans of rugby. There have been wasps posts though on here.

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Nick said:
To be fair I have only seen ones of people on here who said they were fans of rugby. There have been wasps posts though on here.

Yep.

That above statement though, I really don't think anyone on here was as calm when Sixfields was announced for us.

Like I say, maybe a different breed. Would guess Wasps fans are the most irked. think they will lose thousands of fans if they do plonk the club here in Coventry.

lewys33 · Oct 6, 2014

I would say they generally are not up in arms because the majority of CRFC supporters are now the hardcore ones who won't stop going to CRFC games at all, and may even go to a few wasps games as fans of the sport rather than anything else. Rugby fans are a slightly different breed I think. CCFC fans will be more up in arms because A) we play at the Ricoh and B) Northampton for a year was enough of an exile for anyone!

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 6, 2014

tbf duffer's been quite up in arms...

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Just wondering if Wasps fans come out pretty much as one and say they won't come to games here, whether their owners might have a re-think, or at least water down the proposal somewhat.

Could it possibly be that it might just be reduced to some big European games anyway?

Wasps surely have to listen to their fans. Sisu should have done the same, but we had the stupid predictions from Fisher of what the Sixfields crowds were going to be and he made himself look a total clown.

I guessed at 3,000 at best at the time. For Wasps they could lose 2 or 3 thousand easily and their crowds aren't that big in the first place.

lewys33 · Oct 6, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbf duffer's been quite up in arms...

To be fair as a CCFC and CRFC fan myself (used to be a season ticket holder but now just go on odd occasions) I am more pissed off as a CCFC fan because the Ricoh is our home. The only way CRFC will suffer IMO is that a premiership rugby team is moving to Coventry, therefore basically exiling CRFC to the lower leagues for eternity. I doubt that any fans will be lost.

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Wonder if anyone has done any research as to how many fans Wasps lost when they moved home games to Wycombe?

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Another thought just came to mind, surely the lower the gates Wasps get here, the more they are going to need CCFC aren't they?

lewys33 · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Another thought just came to mind, surely the lower the gates Wasps get here, the more they are going to need CCFC aren't they?

Not if ACL are viable without a club being there

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

lewys33 said:
Not if ACL are viable without a club being there

Well, true. Even if they are viable without a sports team here, from their perspective it is just daft to let a top class, first rate stadium go to ruin isn't it?

lewys33 · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Well, true. Even if they are viable without a sports team here, from their perspective it is just daft to let a top class, first rate stadium go to ruin isn't it?

Of course. I would like to think that they would accommodate us for as long as we are interested (and at a good rate!), but currently there are far too many unanswered questions.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 6, 2014

lewys33 said:
I doubt that any fans will be lost.

Sport's all about hope though.

My Dad can remember watching the team of the 60s and 70s (also playing with and against them) and then they were one of the biggest teams in the land. Part of the reason for still paying attention is the hope they get back.

Take away hope... and what's the point?

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Sport's all about hope though.

My Dad can remember watching the team of the 60s and 70s (also playing with and against them) and then they were one of the biggest teams in the land. Part of the reason for still paying attention is the hope they get back.

Take away hope... and what's the point?

Totally agree. That is why I think that if we were to build a much cheaper, much smaller stadium somewhere, a degree of hope will be lost and I think we will lose supporters as a result.

It may well seem like cutting our cloth, but then also lowering our targets and we can hardly even say we have had any targets for who knows how many years. Target seems to be just survival.

We need hope. I think the Ricoh and it's potential does give us some hope, but it would be so much greater if it was actually ours!

Otis · Oct 6, 2014

Right,

Here's what I think we need to do tomorrow. Don't ask for the council and councillors to vote no, but to ask them to postpone any decision.

Even City fans who think the Wasps deal would be good would be onboard with that wouldn't they?

Just ask them to not vote through anything final until all parties affected by this are consulted in depth, fans are consulted and more info is released into the public domain.

We could of course just ask for a no vote, but I think asking for nothing final to be decided would not compromise anyone or put anyone if a difficult position.

Wasps can wait another couple of weeks and then Fisher et al and CRFC and whoever else can enter talks and try and come up with alternate proposals.

No to a final vote, rather than a straight yes or no vote.

theferret · Oct 6, 2014

Otis said:
Right,

Here's what I think we need to do tomorrow. Don't ask for the council and councillors to vote no, but to ask them to postpone any decision.

Even City fans who think the Wasps deal would be good would be onboard with that wouldn't they?

Just ask them to not vote through anything final until all parties affected by this are consulted in depth, fans are consulted and more info is released into the public domain.

We could of course just ask for a no vote, but I think asking for nothing final to be decided would not compromise anyone or put anyone if a difficult position.

Wasps can wait another couple of weeks and then Fisher et al and CRFC and whoever else can enter talks and try and come up with alternate proposals.

No to a final vote, rather than a straight yes or no vote.

I really don't think we need to pander to those few who think this might be a good idea. For the good of two famous old sporting clubs it has to be no, and it has to be a no now.

I know you are very diplomatic by nature Otis, but sometimes people are just plain wrong and they have to be told.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 6, 2014

theferret said:
I really don't think we need to pander to those few who think this might be a good idea. For the good of two famous old sporting clubs it has to be no, and it has to be a no now.

I know you are very diplomatic by nature Otis, but sometimes people are just plain wrong and they have to be told.

Plus haven't we had enough of waiting anyway?

I know the hope's gone for some time off to just enjoy the football(!) but it'd be nice if we could occasionally, without something hanging over us.

italiahorse · Oct 6, 2014

theferret said:
I really don't think we need to pander to those few who think this might be a good idea. For the good of two famous old sporting clubs it has to be no, and it has to be a no now.

I know you are very diplomatic by nature Otis, but sometimes people are just plain wrong and they have to be told.

Its business mate.
The Ricoh needs to ready for when CCFC move out.

However ....

We need to get SISU to buy in or there is only one result.
Target SISU to show interest and then postpone any vote pending more information.

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