italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Only if Sisu want that.
Common sense says that a good long term rent deal is better than building a new stadium outside Coventry.
Protest Tuesday (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter letsallsingtogether
- Start date
Only if Sisu want that.
Common sense says that a good long term rent deal is better than building a new stadium outside Coventry.
Nick
Administrator
It is said that people like a sense of humour!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Bet you were all for SISU coming in, as you never considered the long term affect...
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's also said that people like a bit of 'rough.'
Otis
Well-Known Member
Think most of us were just relieved to be honest. Don't think we wanted Sisu, but it seemed to be the only show in town. More out of necessity than anything else.
I see this Wasps thing possibly ending up like the Sisu scenario, whereby shareholders were asked to hand in their shares. They didn't want to do it, but thought it was the only solution.
I keep coimg back to the Sisu/Seppala stance. I was really stunned by what she said on Friday. Really thought they were going to come out of the corner all guns blazing and talk about the injustice of it all and try and turn us all against ACL, but she merely said they wouldn't interfere in any deal.
Maybe tomorrow we will find out why.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Just had a further reply from one of my councillors.
Dear Mr. Bingo Flapjacks,
Thank you for your email regarding the Ricoh Arena.
The matter will be discussed this evening, in the full Labour Group, and tomorrow afternoon in Full Council. You can be re-assured I will listen with great care to the arguments, for and against, Wasps RFC involvement with ACL/the Ricoh Arena. As you can imagine, this is going to be a complicated and tense discussion, but my sole concern will be the benefits to the citizens of Coventry.
Following the debate on Tuesday, I will contact you again, to share my thoughts and the outcomes of the debates.
Signed,
A Councillor
Dear Mr. Bingo Flapjacks,
Thank you for your email regarding the Ricoh Arena.
The matter will be discussed this evening, in the full Labour Group, and tomorrow afternoon in Full Council. You can be re-assured I will listen with great care to the arguments, for and against, Wasps RFC involvement with ACL/the Ricoh Arena. As you can imagine, this is going to be a complicated and tense discussion, but my sole concern will be the benefits to the citizens of Coventry.
Following the debate on Tuesday, I will contact you again, to share my thoughts and the outcomes of the debates.
Signed,
A Councillor
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Its obvious to the world that the best thing for CCFC is to have at least a share in Acl !
I am not surprised that CCFC owners don't feel the same as the fans on this one. When have Sisu done whats best for the club and fans ?
I am not surprised that CCFC owners don't feel the same as the fans on this one. When have Sisu done whats best for the club and fans ?
Otis
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
I think we're currently in a 2+2 deal Otis - so SISU or Wasps could move the club out of the Ricoh again at the end of next season I think.
My point here remains; if we're not willing to stand against Wasps being moved now, we'll hardly have grounds for complaint if SISU decide to take us away from Coventry again in the future.
At this point in time I think there's actually the risk that something that was mostly intended as a bluff (the new stadium), really does become a financial reality because there is no other option. If that stadium turns out to be outside Coventry, even a long way outside, how can we complain.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
We've also seen how even the most seemingly inflexible of contracts can be broken if the will is there... so a new deal doesn't guarantee it in itself, you need to make sure there aren't the precedents that make moving teams acceptable or the norm.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Understand what you are saying, duffer, but for most people, us moving out is not the same as having someone else move in. And that is simply because it has nowhere like the same impact on us as it has on the club moving in.
This is why I never really spoke out against Northampton. They should have been against us moving in, but seemingly they really weren't that miffed. No real protest from them.
The FL should have blocked any ground share and the fact that none of us believed a new stadium would ever be built, added to the fact that Fisher was saying 'that boat has sailed' about the Ricoh, had many of us believing we could end up at Sixfields for many, many years to come.
Obviosuly, if the deal tomorrow suits CCFC, even in the short term (say, 10 years), then the vote will be yes.
We are all against Wasps coming, but it is not the same thing as us going to Northampton in terms of impact. Wasps coming in would just have us having great sympathy with Wasps fans and us maybe boycotting all their games here.
Us going to Northampton tore the heart out of the city and we were all obviously saddened and outraged in equal measure.
We can be totally against franchising, but if a deal is good for CCFC (even in the short term), you just cannot expect people to feel the same way as we did when our club was taken away.
It is all on a different level. Number one priority, what is best for Coventry City, then what is best for Coventry and its citizens and Coventry Rugby Club and then how it effects Wasps fans.
People can argue all they want but this is how it will be. CCC have to put Coventry first, the SBT have to put Coventry City first.
Northampton Town put Northampton Town before us. Number one priority for them.
As I keep saying, that doens't make it right. but I just cannot for the life of me see Sky Blues supporters opposing the deal if it somehow secures us some sort of a future.
As it stands at the moment, we have no secure future past 4 years.
It suited Northampton to bring more money in. It could be that the Wasps thing gives us at least some sort of extra long rental agreement and that only Wasps fans are truly hurt.
That of course is still totally wrong.
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
But what a ridiculous name "A Councillor" I ask you..
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Wasps being at the stadium could mean reduced rental for CCFC.
The stadium will be more high profile with 2 teams and this could turn to our advantage.
Wasps are coming no doubt, so we should concentrate our efforts on getting guarantees for CCFC on incomes related to football.
The stadium will be more high profile with 2 teams and this could turn to our advantage.
Wasps are coming no doubt, so we should concentrate our efforts on getting guarantees for CCFC on incomes related to football.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope not. I hope that somehow Sisu see sense here and get invoved/put a bid in, whatever, into making the Rioch our permanent long term home.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Lucky they chose the vocation they did.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I always thought that politics was a case of face fit's not name fit's?
Cheshire Sky Blue
New Member
I don't like the idea of a Wasps takeover of ACL, but I just can't see that SISU could afford to outbid them. I think that if the deal goes through we have to try to get the CCC to covenant that CCFC have access at a reasonable rate (CCC are still holding 10% and that will have influence)
We can all have our own theories as to what SISU are up to, but in truth we just can't be certain. My current theory is that SISU are a bust flush and as such I fear for my club. But who can really be sure?
Otis
Well-Known Member
If the deal is to go through, we need included in part of the deal, a binding agreement that states that CCFC can play at the Ricoh for the next 99 years, or the longest it can possibly be.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
That's all well and good, but without access to additional revenues, we're gonna be stuck at square one, championship at best for a lifetime. With the modest profits in ACL I can't see why wasps would want to sell them on n the future. No parking, no F&B's and they will likely want to to have half the Pitchside advertising. Looks very bleak to me
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Otis
Well-Known Member
That's all well and good, but without access to additional revenues, we're gonna be stuck at square one, championship at best for a lifetime. With the modest profits in ACL I can't see why wasps would want to sell them on n the future. No parking, no F&B's and they will likely want to to have half the Pitchside advertising. Looks very bleak to me
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Not as bleak as us leaving in 4 years and having nowhere to play though, Stu. That scenario for me is so much worse.
Is Sisu can't distress ACL or get the Ricoh on the cheap they seem dead set on moving to a new stadium that we pretty all believe will never, ever be built.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Both the scenarios you suggest - Stu and Otis - are entirely believable but both are negative. Is there any positive way forward?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yep. Sisu buy the Ricoh and with ACL and CCC not at all trusting them, caveats are put in place to protect the Arena for the people of Coventry.
Otis
Well-Known Member
What I would maybe like to see would be both City and Cov rugby share the Ricoh, then the council can make some money in having the Butts re-developed.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I was up for it but now I don't think I'll be there, depending on what else comes out of course. What would we actually be protesting about? SISU have been clear that they aren't interested in bidding for the Ricoh and are building us our own ground. We have a contract in place until that point and existing contracts would be honoured as the contract is with ACL and that company would still exist no matter who owned it.
I'd be interested to know this. I'd certainly give my full support to any protest by Wasps of CRFC fans, have they organised anything?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
awful lot of misinformation bouncing around it seems. To me its a battle of hearts and minds. Heart says franchise team dropping in is wrong, head says that doesn't mean it has to make things worse for CCFC
we know
- The freehold is not for sale
- an interest in ACL is for sale
- Joy Seppala has said she will not interfere in any stakeholder interest disposal of ACL
- CCC are going to put the proposals to a vote of its members
- Joy Seppala said clearly they are going to build the club its own ground ie they do not want to be at the Ricoh long term
- apart from the owners of CCFC no one has said they do not want CCFC at the Ricoh long term
- CCFC currently rent space for 6 hours before a match and 4 hours after and other than two badges have no link or commitment to the Ricoh Arena
- CCFC have a two year rent deal with an option for 2 more - a 4 year time frame asked for and set by CCFC
A lot of the rest being said is just guess work and conjecture
We are told that CCC should offer and fix a price to sell ACL (the freehold has never been for sale to anyone) then communicate that to the owners of CCFC who have repeatedly, at length and over many months told everyone they do not want it. How does that make sense in reality other than in the hopes of fans that there might be some change of need in either party, particularly SISU?
The problem for fans, is a fear of the unknown, the continued uncertainty and what that means for CCFC, and the generally held consensus that franchise sport is not a good thing because it essentially breaks communities. I get that, my heart says this doesn't feel right but my head says it might actually be an opportunity to build something - except the CCFC owners have no interest they say of building anything in any sense at the Ricoh.
The football club must have the normal football club revenues in order to be successful. I get that too. BUT you do not need to own the stadium or ACL to do that. Most clubs (including some premiership ones) do not have access of any sort to the kind of other facilities the Ricoh offers. I have to assume that promoters etc put exhibitions, events, concerts on at the Ricoh because it makes them money and that it can be done 365 days a year....... the promoters do not own the Ricoh or ACL but they do it all the same. I therefore have to assume that CCFC choose not to do these things. Why is that if Turnover & income is so important?
Fans worry we haven't been told first, by bodies not charged with running the football team, what is going on, that we are worried because having got back to Ricoh new owners might force us out. Quite rightly the Council officers have said they must tell the council members first but their responsibility is to the City not CCFC. The club still has the length and kind of tenure it wanted at the Ricoh and that is contractually sound even if the ownership of ACL changes so should we worry about being forced out - it seems to me it is the owners of CCFC that are choosing life elsewhere - the fans choice is do we follow.
That really only leaves us to protest the principle that franchising a team (any team) is wrong. That should be more than just CCFC fans doing that though surely, right?
anyone go to MK dons this season, last season etc....................... :thinking about:
we know
- The freehold is not for sale
- an interest in ACL is for sale
- Joy Seppala has said she will not interfere in any stakeholder interest disposal of ACL
- CCC are going to put the proposals to a vote of its members
- Joy Seppala said clearly they are going to build the club its own ground ie they do not want to be at the Ricoh long term
- apart from the owners of CCFC no one has said they do not want CCFC at the Ricoh long term
- CCFC currently rent space for 6 hours before a match and 4 hours after and other than two badges have no link or commitment to the Ricoh Arena
- CCFC have a two year rent deal with an option for 2 more - a 4 year time frame asked for and set by CCFC
A lot of the rest being said is just guess work and conjecture
We are told that CCC should offer and fix a price to sell ACL (the freehold has never been for sale to anyone) then communicate that to the owners of CCFC who have repeatedly, at length and over many months told everyone they do not want it. How does that make sense in reality other than in the hopes of fans that there might be some change of need in either party, particularly SISU?
The problem for fans, is a fear of the unknown, the continued uncertainty and what that means for CCFC, and the generally held consensus that franchise sport is not a good thing because it essentially breaks communities. I get that, my heart says this doesn't feel right but my head says it might actually be an opportunity to build something - except the CCFC owners have no interest they say of building anything in any sense at the Ricoh.
The football club must have the normal football club revenues in order to be successful. I get that too. BUT you do not need to own the stadium or ACL to do that. Most clubs (including some premiership ones) do not have access of any sort to the kind of other facilities the Ricoh offers. I have to assume that promoters etc put exhibitions, events, concerts on at the Ricoh because it makes them money and that it can be done 365 days a year....... the promoters do not own the Ricoh or ACL but they do it all the same. I therefore have to assume that CCFC choose not to do these things. Why is that if Turnover & income is so important?
Fans worry we haven't been told first, by bodies not charged with running the football team, what is going on, that we are worried because having got back to Ricoh new owners might force us out. Quite rightly the Council officers have said they must tell the council members first but their responsibility is to the City not CCFC. The club still has the length and kind of tenure it wanted at the Ricoh and that is contractually sound even if the ownership of ACL changes so should we worry about being forced out - it seems to me it is the owners of CCFC that are choosing life elsewhere - the fans choice is do we follow.
That really only leaves us to protest the principle that franchising a team (any team) is wrong. That should be more than just CCFC fans doing that though surely, right?
anyone go to MK dons this season, last season etc....................... :thinking about:
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Otis
Well-Known Member
I am the same. Was considering protesting, but the Seppala statement knocked the wind right out of my sails.
If Sisu aren't going to 'interfere' andget involved with negotiating for a large chunk of the Ricoh, then what are we protesting against other than the franchising of Wasps? And though that is something I am not at all happy about, the first priority has to be Coventry City for me.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Great post, OSB.
And for me this bit is the most ridiculous of all. .... apart from the owners of CCFC no one has said they do not want CCFC at the Ricoh long term.
The only people who have said they don't want to be here are the club itself.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Beginning to feel like this is a sign of how many people have given up on CCFC and/or feel defeated. If at Highfield Road we'd been told we were going to be the junior partner to a west London rugby club and Wasps signs started to go up on the stands do you think no one would have done anything about it?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I think, Michael, that after what the fans have been through these past few years they very much feel all but defeated.
They fought tooth and nail to get us back home and within a few weeks it is all about us leaving again.
Don't think they have the belly to fight any more and if anything, I think fans are just going to wash their hands of the club and walk away, never to return.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Am waiting to hear if I can get the afternoon off now that the time has changed.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Problem is unless we're going to try and register it as a community asset and buy it ourselves (as in the fans not SISU) what can we do? Our owners repeatedly say they are not interested in the Ricoh and are building a new ground. We can't force them to buy it.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yup. We just hoped that they did want to buy it.
