Very few people think Thorn is 100% blameless.
What makes it even worse is that we've got a team full of average/poor players because SISU sold or let go the good players.
I say make even worse, I mean that there is your root cause. Shit team + bad results= disillusioned fans who will grasp at all sorts of straws to blame the current situation on be it the manager, age of the squad or luck.
We aren't good enough because of our unfit owners.
SISU out!!
Very few people think Thorn is 100% blameless.
its because other teams suss out our tactics and change things around....
we only have one tactic
You have fans who believe the following:
[*]Tactics and luck don't make a difference to football results.
I always like new threads which once again apportion blame and turn fan against fan. Just what we need in our current predicament.
unfortunately there are people who just sit on the Internet all day just waiting to antagonize people
What makes it even worse is that we've got a team full of average/poor players because SISU sold or let go the good players.
I say make even worse, I mean that there is your root cause. Shit team + bad results= disillusioned fans who will grasp at all sorts of straws to blame the current situation on be it the manager, age of the squad or luck.
We aren't good enough because of our unfit owners.
SISU out!!
its because other teams suss out our tactics and change things around....
we only have one tactic
We don't get hammered cos we have a decent defence, we are completely toothless though. Hence all the 1-0 defeats. I wouldn't say Andy Thorn is not at fault however under the circumstances is not doing the worst job in the world. If we were bringing in the sort of results Forest are with the playing staff that they have then I would be screaming for the managers head.
The thing is as I said in the other thread is that if the squad is so poor why are we not being hammered week in week out? Why do we have spells in games where we are on top but then when another makes a substitution or a tactical change things suddenly change?
Why can we completely boss a first half and come out and come out in the second half and be dire?
Like I said before, if we got beaten 3-0 or 4-0 EVERY week I could understand about the poor players, but we lose by 1 or 2 and usually a sloppy goal every week (usually late on)
Can I pick up on a couple of points raised there? Our players are fit. Compared to lower league teams, we are fit, but not perhaps as fit as our peers. Hence losing goals late on. All of our contemporaries have, as well as a full manager event team, a full time, qualified fitness coach and dietician. Every other team in the league. We had one until last summer, when he left to join Liverpool and wasn't replaced. Not replaced by SISU to save money. So who's more culpable when we lose fitness late on in games against teams who are better conditioned? SISU's penny-pinching, or Thorn?
Your second point being that we don't get thumped - we lose by the occasional goal. An observation that's counterintuitive to your other opinions. If we got thumped week in, week out: then yes, Thorn's tactics and formations are allowing other teams to over-run us. But we're not. So the basics can't be so far wrong. It boils down to the occasional bit of lost quality, and mistakes from inexperienced players, or those coming back from injury. Bigger squad, or a sprinkling of more quality, and we'd be performing as we were last year under exactly the same manager
Exactly, makes you think does Thorn even watch in advance the games of future opponents? Try and suss flaws and ways of beating them? Where the weak links are etc..?
Can I pick up on a couple of points raised there? Our players are fit. Compared to lower league teams, we are fit, but not perhaps as fit as our peers. Hence losing goals late on. All of our contemporaries have, as well as a full manager event team, a full time, qualified fitness coach and dietician. Every other team in the league. We had one until last summer, when he left to join Liverpool and wasn't replaced. Not replaced by SISU to save money. So who's more culpable when we lose fitness late on in games against teams who are better conditioned? SISU's penny-pinching, or Thorn?
Your second point being that we don't get thumped - we lose by the occasional goal. An observation that's counterintuitive to your other opinions. If we got thumped week in, week out: then yes, Thorn's tactics and formations are allowing other teams to over-run us. But we're not. So the basics can't be so far wrong. It boils down to the occasional bit of lost quality, and mistakes from inexperienced players, or those coming back from injury. Bigger squad, or a sprinkling of more quality, and we'd be performing as we were last year under exactly the same manager
Can I pick up on a couple of points raised there? Our players are fit. Compared to lower league teams, we are fit, but not perhaps as fit as our peers. Hence losing goals late on. All of our contemporaries have, as well as a full manager event team, a full time, qualified fitness coach and dietician. Every other team in the league. We had one until last summer, when he left to join Liverpool and wasn't replaced. Not replaced by SISU to save money. So who's more culpable when we lose fitness late on in games against teams who are better conditioned? SISU's penny-pinching, or Thorn?
Your second point being that we don't get thumped - we lose by the occasional goal. An observation that's counterintuitive to your other opinions. If we got thumped week in, week out: then yes, Thorn's tactics and formations are allowing other teams to over-run us. But we're not. So the basics can't be so far wrong. It boils down to the occasional bit of lost quality, and mistakes from inexperienced players, or those coming back from injury. Bigger squad, or a sprinkling of more quality, and we'd be performing as we were last year under exactly the same manager
Thing that's getting up people's noses on here I think is the constant statement that no-one could do any better than Thorn.
Fine to think no-one can do any better, but to categorically come out and state it like it is some kind of fact is just plain daft. Truth is, none of us know for sure whether anyone could do any better or not.
Thorn has made mistakes. These mistakes have probably cost us points. Could a more experienced manager have brought more points to the table through mot making those mistakes? More than likely, yes. As in life nothing is completely black and white and the bottom line is that Thorn is partially to blame and not at all 100% blameless. All managers are to blame at times of course. Just think Thorn's inexperience shows through.
Agree with MMM to a point and we invariably tire, but at times we don't change the tactics to try and compensate when opposing teams start to get the upper hand. Yep, we're limited in our options, but we have had some options to try something different at times and the Burnley game was a good case in point. Burnley started to get on top and only one team looked like to score from that moment on.
Thorn for whatever reason failed to bring any sub on after Burnley equalised. They then went on and bagged the winner with us having 2 unused subs still on the bench.
On the bench that day and unused were Deegan, Baker and Cameron. There were options there.
As a matter of interest how would people rate the current best team available with the one we competed the first season in the Championship with - Hedman-Konjic-Shaw-Thompson-Bellamy-Chippo et al? How would Thorn manage with that team?
What exactly are his options this season with the players available? Keep it tight with a team that finds it difficult to score or be adventurous and get stuffed every week?
I don't think many people question that other managers could do (a little) better, but as I've said before, who:
a) Could we afford to bring in?
b) Would want the job in the first place?
c) Would genuinely do a better job with the same resources?
Come up with a manager who ticks all 3 boxes, otherwise the Thorn out argument has a big weakness-we either couldn't afford a better manager, or couldn't attract one.
Exactly my point!
How often when we play when other teams and they make changes or substitutions it changes the game?
Why don't we ever find weaknesses and exploit them, the same as Poyet did against us (when they got the goal).
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