Meet Wasps Tonight And Ask Your Questions (1 Viewer)

skybluefred said:

I doubt anybody could know the answer to that question..I would have thought that an offer or statement of intent would
needed to have been made to CCC for them to know anybody was interested. All CCC kept hearing from sisu was we are
building a new 15,000 seater stadium.

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C'mon mate. You think that CCC offered that exact deal to SISU when they came back from Northampton do you? It's just that there was nothing in the papers about it, and a boatload of NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) regarding the Wasps deal, this at almost exactly the same time the council were talking about rebuilding trust.

Do you think if the council had offered this deal to SISU that they would have missed on the huge PR benefit of making that explicit to all and sundry.

If people want to twist themselves into thinking this is a good deal for the city, and CCFC, and CRFC, that's up to them. But it's pretty obvious to me that this wasn't a deal that was made available to the club, except by the Higgs to cover their arses in a legal sense.

Grendel said:

You are wasting you breath - the absurdity of some on here is they will excuse anything - the sanctioning of franchise sport and the death of CCFC - as long as sisu and seppella and fisher especially get a bloody nose.

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I completely agree that I'm wasting my breath G, and in truth I give up.

If anyone here thinks that by asking hard questions of Wasps and CCC that I (or anyone else here) is somehow pro-SISU then frankly they aren't thinking straight. And that's about as politely as I can put it.

duffer said:

C'mon mate. You think that CCC offered that exact deal to SISU when they came back from Northampton do you? It's just that there was nothing in the papers about it, and a boatload of NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) regarding the Wasps deal, this at almost exactly the same time the council were talking about rebuilding trust.

Do you think if the council had offered this deal to SISU that they would have missed on the huge PR benefit of making that explicit to all and sundry.

If people want to twist themselves into thinking this is a good deal for the city, and CCFC, and CRFC, that's up to them. But it's pretty obvious to me that this wasn't a deal that was made available to the club, except by the Higgs to cover their arses in a legal sense.

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I think there's a telling element in Higg's response to the club's option on it's 50% share in which is states 'Notwithstanding the history of Sisu’s behaviour....'. I think all parties got sick to the back teeth of their duplicity.

The JR papers were pretty damning of successive elements of SISU's behaviour. We know what their end-game was and they over-played their hand - and probably didn't get the deal offered to others; so I agree with you. But that's candid negotiating for you; as soon as trust breaks down, a constructive outcome is unlikely. The ongoing litigation against all odds was frankly astonishing, and once one party sets it's intent on destroying it's negotiating partner, tea-dance politeness goes out of the window, and it seems to have back-fired on SISU. And alas, by default also on the football club

I can't help but feel the most horrible thing of this is it's ended up an ideological battle as much as anything.

And the football club ends up the victim as neither side prove their own approach right.

duffer said:

I completely agree that I'm wasting my breath G, and in truth I give up.

If anyone here thinks that by asking hard questions of Wasps and CCC that I (or anyone else here) is somehow pro-SISU then frankly they aren't thinking straight. And that's about as politely as I can put it.

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There is one fair question to be asked - was the wasps deal offered to the club. If it was and they said no then there is nowhere to go - but the citizens of Coventry should be told if that offer was ever given

Grendel said:

There is one fair question to be asked - was the wasps deal offered to the club. If it was and they said no then there is nowhere to go - but the citizens of Coventry should be told if that offer was ever given

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We all know Wasps negotiations were the subject of NDA's. Do you know what that acronym stands for?

Godiva said:

The club is Otium with a debt level to ARVO around £10m-12m.
The major debts BSB refer to is with SBS&L - and the majority of that debt is historical and not from money put in by Sisu.

Otium can fold while SBS&L move into another sisu controlled group and be used to eliminate tax payments.

The club going out of existence doesn't necessarily mean sisu have to crystalize (write off) a major loss.

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Yes there are other parts of the portfolio they can shuffle around but it begs the question why a hedge fund would hang around for so long. It's not their modus operandi.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

We all know Wasps negotiations were the subject of NDA's. Do you know what that acronym stands for?

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Yes it stands for Anne Lucas wanting to not disclose to the tax payers details of a deal with a community asset. It is if course a feeble excuse for refusing to disclose the truth. Let's hope the electorate remember that.

Grendel said:

Yes it stands for Anne Lucas wanting to not disclose to the tax payers details of a deal with a community asset. It is if course a feeble excuse for refusing to disclose the truth. Let's hope the electorate remember that.

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Not too dissimilar from her 'behind closed doors' talks to help incorporate the city into Greater Birmingham.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Not too dissimilar from her 'behind closed doors' talks to help incorporate the city into Greater Birmingham.

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Or ignoring green belt land and planning to build thousands if houses to join the city across the solihull boundary.

Grendel said:

Yes it stands for Anne Lucas wanting to not disclose to the tax payers details of a deal with a community asset. It is if course a feeble excuse for refusing to disclose the truth. Let's hope the electorate remember that.

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NDA's are common on business - you know that. JLR throw them about like confetti. If the council get an approach from Wasps - or any sporting institution for that matter - but it's subject to an NDA, and they refuse it, preferring to wait for a partner who's engaged in ongoing litigation whilst declaring they're building anew; they'd be accused of naivety and incompetetence

Grendel said:

Or ignoring green belt land and planning to build thousands if houses to join the city across the solihull boundary.

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Did she not also state she would respond to all correspondence on the Wasps sale? Never got a reply to mine stating the Labour party had lost my vote as a consequence.

If you want to know what's being said take a look at CJ's twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/CJ_covblaze?lang=en

Have you ever held discussions with Gary Hoffman, Joe Elliott or Ray Ranson? Nick Eastwood: Yes but I can't say which one.

:facepalm:

duffer said:

I completely agree that I'm wasting my breath G, and in truth I give up.

If anyone here thinks that by asking hard questions of Wasps and CCC that I (or anyone else here) is somehow pro-SISU then frankly they aren't thinking straight. And that's about as politely as I can put it.

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If it really is that important to you then why are you asking the hard questions of Wasps on here and not at the Squirrel tonight?

Deleted member 5849 said:

Have you ever held discussions with Gary Hoffman, Joe Elliott or Ray Ranson? Nick Eastwood: Yes but I can't say which one.

:facepalm:

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Please god, nooooooo

Deleted member 5849 said:

To address this directly, Mondays aren't exactly a fabulous day for me. It's a work from home day which, on the one hand, allows me to post shit on a message board while I break things but, also, means I have to basically fix what I break by Tuesday. This tends to restrict movement a little...

But yes, the general point is fair. I have been a couple of times to Trust meetings, was kind of relieved when one proposal ended up parked as I didn't really fancy arguing against it.

Incidentally, had SISU taken CCFC away permanently then yep, too right I'd want them out of business, the same as I still want MK Dons to fail. It's the deterrant you see; the more times it's legitimised and succeeds, the more likely it is it happens again and again and again and again...

And with the Speedway stadium sold, I'm frankly running out of options of teams to support!

Rugby Town it is, then(!)

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So how far outside of the Coventry boundary will be far enough for you and certain others, when Sisu 'build' Legoland to really be angry with them? Until that point though, can we still expect Sisu to get a relatively free ride (as Duffer puts it about CCC) from some on here and let them get away with completely destroying our once proud club?

henry the wasp said:

Nickster (mr eastwood), old buddy old boy. Have you had any meetings with Gary Hoffman, Ray Ranson or Teflon Joe in the last 6 months?

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Well well. What a suprise. Not.

The Gentleman said:

So how far outside of the Coventry boundary will be far enough for you and certain others, when Sisu 'build' Legoland to really be angry with them?

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Honestly? If (if) it happens I'll decide then. tbh Ryton would be too far for me... Chelmsley Wood would lose all pretence at being 'Coventry' and would have me wish doom upon them.

We've been here and done that though.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:

NDA's are common on business - you know that. JLR throw them about like confetti. If the council get an approach from Wasps - or any sporting institution for that matter - but it's subject to an NDA, and they refuse it, preferring to wait for a partner who's engaged in ongoing litigation whilst declaring they're building anew; they'd be accused of naivety and incompetetence

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I wonder what the electorate would say if SISU had of built a new stadium leaving the Ricoh redundent empty white elephant only to find out that it could have been sold at an earlier date but the council turned it down in the hope that a company would stop taking them to court and make a serious attempt to buy it, which they were never going to do.

skybluetony176 said:

I wonder what the electorate would say if SISU had of built a new stadium leaving the Ricoh redundent empty white elephant only to find out that it could have been sold at an earlier date but the council turned it down in the hope that a company would stop taking them to court and make a serious attempt to buy it, which they were never going to do.

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The electorate'd probably approve of us flogging the old Coventry Cathedral to Merlin Entertainment Group, because it stands empty...

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Yes there are other parts of the portfolio they can shuffle around but it begs the question why a hedge fund would hang around for so long. It's not their modus operandi.

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No, it's not how Hedge Funds operate. I said that a couple of years ago. With CCFC they have acted as 'normal' investors.
Not that it excuses their failures and mistakes, but it's inaccurate to keep using the term 'Hedge Fund'.
But their pedigree as Hedge Fund managers is still showing as they seem more focussed on 'assets' than 'profits'.

Deleted member 5849 said:

The electorate'd probably approve of us flogging the old Coventry Cathedral to Merlin Entertainment Group, because it stands empty...

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I think that was built on the land Fisher told us would be secured 'in about 3 weeks'. And I'm talking about the St Mary's Priory one.....

Grendel said:

Yes it stands for Anne Lucas wanting to not disclose to the tax payers details of a deal with a community asset. It is if course a feeble excuse for refusing to disclose the truth. Let's hope the electorate remember that.

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So, are you saying that there wasn't an NDA, or that even if you had signed one, you'd still tell people "the truth" ?

people have to face facts it is our incompetent arse hole owners who have sold us down the river and unfortunately a more savvy set of owners have jumped in and siezed the opportunity with both hands..now the only way forward appears to be a stadium rental or a new stadium elsewhere as SISUs tenants. Should the council have sold to them..probably not...would they even have considered it if it were not for our arse hole owners trying to sue them...probably not...if people choose to watch Wasps now they are here will they be contributing to the demise of CCFC...probably not because its not like we are seeing them at the ricoh already

Godiva said:

No, it's not how Hedge Funds operate. I said that a couple of years ago. With CCFC they have acted as 'normal' investors.
Not that it excuses their failures and mistakes, but it's inaccurate to keep using the term 'Hedge Fund'.
But their pedigree as Hedge Fund managers is still showing as they seem more focussed on 'assets' than 'profits'.

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Only hope of getting an asset on that balance sheet is a new ground it seems. Up to now a facade to maintain their assault on ACL, they must be thinking 'shit, we've actually got to build this thing Joy?'.

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Only hope of getting an asset on that balance sheet is a new ground it seems. Up to now a facade to maintain their assault on ACL, they must be thinking 'shit, we've actually got to build this thing Joy?'.

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I don't think they are still assaulting ACL - are they?

About the new stadium - well I won't rule out that is happening. If they come up with a viable business plan they won't have difficulties finding the money/investors. It's finding the suitable piece of land and getting building permissions that will be the difficult part.

Godiva said:

I don't think they are still assaulting ACL - are they?

About the new stadium - well I won't rule out that is happening. If they come up with a viable business plan they won't have difficulties finding the money/investors. It's finding the suitable piece of land and getting building permissions that will be the difficult part.

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Just remind me again how long they have been coming up with this business plan?

Also, tell me who in their right mind would want to invest in something where the customer base is being decimated, the owners cannot be trusted and the likelyhood of it being linked to shopping when more and more people are turning to online shopping. Oh yes, that's right, stick it in a field in the middle of nowhere and they will come. Wayne's World 2 springs to mind.......

Godiva said:

I don't think they are still assaulting ACL - are they?

About the new stadium - well I won't rule out that is happening. If they come up with a viable business plan they won't have difficulties finding the money/investors. It's finding the suitable piece of land and getting building permissions that will be the difficult part.

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No they aren't-my point is that up till now the new stadium business was a facade as part of the plan to bust ACL. With that dead in the water, suddenly a new stadium has actually become a possible way for them to offload the club. The council have no good reason to stop them doing it, their bigger opposition will be from residents and the other obstacles you refer to.

The Gentleman said:

Just remind me again how long they have been coming up with this business plan?

Also, tell me who in their right mind would want to invest in something where the customer base is being decimated, the owners cannot be trusted and the likelyhood of it being linked to shopping when more and more people are turning to online shopping. Oh yes, that's right, stick it in a field in the middle of nowhere and they will come. Wayne's World 2 springs to mind.......

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Ever the optimist I see.

The Gentleman said:

I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves. All the crap that is getting laid at Wasps door and this is mostly from the splinter arsed balanced ones who never threw shit at Sisu because everyone else did. Now though, certain posters are all to willing to put the fucking boot it to a rugby club who have relocated a team but weren't so vocal when Sisu fucking did it. Where were these fans when people were constantly slating Sisu, I'll tell you, some were fucking sat at Sixfields but now all of a sudden they are up in arms about a game that doesn't even concern CCFC and how they will never set foot in the Ricoh at a Wasps game. Some say they will start watching CRFC but would there be a chance when the two could meet, what would people do then. Would we get the hypocrites chants from certain sections.

I love the way people want Wasps to do badly and go out of business but yet I've never heard that from some of the same people about Sisu and their businesses. All this has done is allow some to switch their anger from ACL/CCC to Wasps, when the real wankers in this whole charade are still Sisu. Bet Sisu are loving the fact that whilst this all goes on and people are up in arms about it, no-one is actually asking them what their plans are, why they didn't move sooner on the Ricoh, where is this new stadium because they actually fucking own us and not Wasps.

I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were to inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

But hey-ho, I'll look forward to reading endless pages of shite about Wasps tonight and how they plan to fuck us over the first chance they get when in actual fact the same people are fucking clueless and don't know, the same as everyone else. But they will still sit There posting about it rather than actually going to the meeting tonight to try and find out themselves.

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Bitter that is exactly what it is.
Blame game is an other anything to turn the blame on another party when only one is to blame SISU 100% fuck ups

duffer said:

C'mon mate. You think that CCC offered that exact deal to SISU when they came back from Northampton do you? It's just that there was nothing in the papers about it, and a boatload of NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) regarding the Wasps deal, this at almost exactly the same time the council were talking about rebuilding trust.

Do you think if the council had offered this deal to SISU that they would have missed on the huge PR benefit of making that explicit to all and sundry.

If people want to twist themselves into thinking this is a good deal for the city, and CCFC, and CRFC, that's up to them. But it's pretty obvious to me that this wasn't a deal that was made available to the club, except by the Higgs to cover their arses in a legal sense.

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You are right. This offer was not made to SISU. But you also seem to be ignoring the reasons for this.

Shall we start at the road map? An agreement was made in principle that 5.5m would be paid to Higgs. Then SISU would go into partnership with CCC. Joy ended up saying the arena was worthless, but she would give 2m as Higgs are a charity. No negotiations. SISU didn't push the matter. Neither did CCC. But it wasn't their job to push the Higgs share for 2m. But as I said no negotiations.

Freehold or nothing was then the plan. Again no negotiations. Our club in Northampton whilst distressing ACL. Nothing but bullshit about building a new stadium that we could see wasn't being planned. Joys way or nothing. 3 to 5 years in Northampton whilst using litigation. Litigation fails badly. Then the appeals start. We all just wanted the litigation to stop and negotiating to start. But still no negotiations. Ann the fan then said that they wouldn't wait forever and would start looking elsewhere.

How about the latest thread to be brought back? Even Torch said he looked forward to seeing who the franchise club would be. Fisher still going on about the new stadium. No FOI act questions were bringing out any info on where the new stadium would be. But we had a few pics of our new stadium. CCFC LTD still in the process of liquidation. Offers of cheap rental agreements turned down. Not even any negotiations on this. Still all or nothing. 5.5m would have been Higgs starting price. 0 would have been Joys starting price. Meet somewhere in the middle? But no. Litigation was still their game. The smoking gun was nothing but a soggy firework. Spending multiples of the 29k that they had agreed to give to Higgs if talks broke down a good idea? It was a good idea if they wanted to burn the last bridge still standing.

So our club came home eventually. Yes it was too late by now to get what should have been our clubs home. And what a shock when Fisher said a couple of days later that we were still going to build our own stadium :facepalm: Does anyone think that even at this late stage that CCC should have halted the deal with Wasps because SISU wanted to negotiate at long last? I am as pissed off as anyone else that Wasps have got our stadium. What CCC should have done is kept it for when we had owners that were willing to negotiate a sale. But how many years should they have wasted time and money in litigation when all local councils are having major cuts to budgets?

Yes you can say that the Wasps deal wasn't offered to SISU. It wasn't. But they were never prepared to negotiate with CCC. SISU have lost more money on behalf of our club in litigation costs and lost revenue whilst distressing ACL and pissing everyone else off than Wasps have paid for the arena. This is fuck all to celebrate for anyone with anything to do with Coventry or our football club. But there is no way that anyone can blame CCC for the whole situation. You are not a CCC lover if you can see the cause of all this bullshit. Just the same as you are not a SISU lover for being pissed off with CCC. Personally I have had enough of the lot of them.

The Gentleman said:

I wonder how many posters on this thread (I know not all live either in or near Coventry) will be sitting there tonight posting endless shite about Wasps when they could of got up off their lazy arses to actually go to the meeting and ask the questions they raised them fucking selves. All the crap that is getting laid at Wasps door and this is mostly from the splinter arsed balanced ones who never threw shit at Sisu because everyone else did. Now though, certain posters are all to willing to put the fucking boot it to a rugby club who have relocated a team but weren't so vocal when Sisu fucking did it. Where were these fans when people were constantly slating Sisu, I'll tell you, some were fucking sat at Sixfields but now all of a sudden they are up in arms about a game that doesn't even concern CCFC and how they will never set foot in the Ricoh at a Wasps game. Some say they will start watching CRFC but would there be a chance when the two could meet, what would people do then. Would we get the hypocrites chants from certain sections.

I love the way people want Wasps to do badly and go out of business but yet I've never heard that from some of the same people about Sisu and their businesses. All this has done is allow some to switch their anger from ACL/CCC to Wasps, when the real wankers in this whole charade are still Sisu. Bet Sisu are loving the fact that whilst this all goes on and people are up in arms about it, no-one is actually asking them what their plans are, why they didn't move sooner on the Ricoh, where is this new stadium because they actually fucking own us and not Wasps.

I couldn't care a fuck whether Wasps do well or not but I'm not bitter enough to want to watch professional sportsman fail just because the owners of our club were to inept at actually buying into something that turned out to be pretty easy.

But hey-ho, I'll look forward to reading endless pages of shite about Wasps tonight and how they plan to fuck us over the first chance they get when in actual fact the same people are fucking clueless and don't know, the same as everyone else. But they will still sit There posting about it rather than actually going to the meeting tonight to try and find out themselves.

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I'm down south and was never going to make it to any meeting given I only made it home at 19:45. I then promptly fell asleep on the sofa and (becuause I looked so peaceful I was just left there) woke up at 5am which is not ideal for my back. I've never hoped that Wasps go out of business as that doesn't just affect the owners but also the fans who from what I've seen are not all happy with the move to our home/city as we weren't with the move to sixfields. If the move to the Ricoh is a financial disaster for Wasps then I would hope that they would consider selling us half of the lease and allow us to have half of our home back.

James Smith said:

I'm down south and was never going to make it to any meeting given I only made it home at 19:45. I then promptly fell asleep on the sofa and (becuause I looked so peaceful I was just left there) woke up at 5am which is not ideal for my back. I've never hoped that Wasps go out of business as that doesn't just affect the owners but also the fans who from what I've seen are not all happy with the move to our home/city as we weren't with the move to sixfields. If the move to the Ricoh is a financial disaster for Wasps then I would hope that they would consider selling us half of the lease and allow us to have half of our home back.

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The first thing we need is the talk of a new stadium to stop.....unless it is going to happen and in the right location. But one problem with this would be the naming rights are up soon. They could easily bring in enough to pay the purchase price and wipe out about half of the loan. And could SISU be seen at last as being able to negotiate and to keep to what they agree on? They say that talks are going well. I just hope they are.

Astute said:

The first thing we need is the talk of a new stadium to stop.....unless it is going to happen and in the right location. But one problem with this would be the naming rights are up soon. They could easily bring in enough to pay the purchase price and wipe out about half of the loan. And could SISU be seen at last as being able to negotiate and to keep to what they agree on? They say that talks are going well. I just hope they are.

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That's assuming the naming rights will be paid in one go, I imagine (I could be wrong) it would be paid in instalments and just get consumed into operating costs. Wasps may give us lowish rent deal, but they won't be given us access to matchday and additional revenues unless we pay for it. And we will have to pay more for all of that in 5-6 years than they paid for the Higgs share.

If sisu buy the land and show us some tangible evidence that the new stadium is going to happen, we must now be open minded.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors