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Mean while back in court (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter sotonskyblue
  • Start date Feb 2, 2016
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Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,716
It would be great to know who are the investors? is Joy one of them.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,717
torchomatic said:
The courts have already done that. Ultimately i hope their investors start wanting their cash back.

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The courts have just said the council didn't do anything wrong with the
Loan. Actually I suppose you are right the first judge took them to task. However they will only really be dealt with by the investment market they are the only people SISU will listen to.
Just hope the only option that eventually becomes the aim is the original plan. Premiership sell for a profit and go.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,718
Chipfat said:
It would be great to know who are the investors? is Joy one of them.
Click to expand...

Now I think about it didn't TF say sometime ago that AVRO are now the investor in CCFC? Probably not true then unless I can think of an argument where it suits it to be true

Edit: Here you go. It's in this LR article http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/fears-grow-over-coventry-city-3025250 looks like it was Les who told the council not to deal with SISU over the Ricoh is the first place the football finance expert was scarily accurate to. The writing really was on the wall.
 
Last edited: May 13, 2016

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,719
dongonzalos said:
The courts have just said the council didn't do anything wrong with the
Loan. Actually I suppose you are right the first judge took them to task. However they will only really be dealt with by the investment market they are the only people SISU will listen to.
Just hope the only option that eventually becomes the aim is the original plan. Premiership sell for a profit and go.
Click to expand...
In law no CCC haven't done anything wrong. Morally? That's a different story.

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King of the Lesbians

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,720
skybluetony176 said:
Can't argue with that.
Click to expand...

Well if you're not going to argue with anybody I may as well fuck off down the pub…
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,721
torchomatic said:
In law no CCC haven't done anything wrong. Morally? That's a different story.

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Click to expand...

Yup. Hamstrung their local football team, beloved by thousands of Coventry citizens, for decades to come, maybe permanently.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,722
torchomatic said:
What rubbish.

So if we'd moved to sixfields and it had been a roaring success then youd have been happy then?


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No I'm not.

H1 did it for gain - H2 did it for greed
Neither did it especially for fans

...onwards & upwards PUSB
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,723
CCFC said:
So if we moved 80 miles away because we saw an opportunity to be successful and better the club, you would be ok with that? it's attitudes like that which are part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Some would be happy with that. We will never know how many would've been because it has only thus far led to doom gloom & much argument & debate

...onwards & upwards PUSB
 
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,724
CCFC said:
So if we moved 80 miles away because we saw an opportunity to be successful and better the club, you would be ok with that? it's attitudes like that which are part of the problem.
Click to expand...

The fundamental flaw with trying to compare what Wasps management have done; moving from High Wycombe to Coventry, with what SISU have done; moving to Northampton. Is that rugby clubs in the UK are not founded and grounded along social class lines and very rarely stemmed from a local factory or something deeply rooted in the society.

Moving a team that has represented people that were boarders at a public school or were more mobile is very different than moving a team that represents the "working class" (whatever that means in today's society!), generally less mobile group.

What SISU did is far worse than what Wasps did.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,725
Chipfat said:
It would be great to know who are the investors? is Joy one of them.
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous, why would she invest in such a lame arse as SISU......... If she did I would probably imagine she also had shares in Woolworths and BHS.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,726
Grendel's line of getting off on a technicality is rubbish. That's him try to wipe egg off his own face. Chris West who is well trained in finance and the regulations around local government always said it was not legal aid.

Today's judgement is not about technicalities it is about judges trying to explain the law to SISU.

As for skulduggary that has been on both sides....but that goes hand in hand with big business. Especially with a group like SISU who try to distress to maximise profit. SISU gambled and played rough....to date they have lost. But when they win the profit margins are high, their business often is high risk for big rewards.

From what I have heard ACL did try to build bridges and work with SISU and it was SISU who kept collapsing the scrum.

Grendel's take on success of an individual is measured by the wealth of an individual. This is a flawed theory. He obviously underestimates Ann Lucas just as Joy Sepalla did. A woman who learnt from fighting for people through union representation. I am not championing one above the other just pointing out successful people can have different goals and motivations.

In the middle is the football club and us fans. Let's hope we can stick together and help the club move forward, whether that is with SISU or someone else. As far as us fans are concerned, it doesn't matter which pony you thought was right, there are no winners today. There is our club where it is and us fans stood at its side.
 
Last edited: May 13, 2016

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,727
skybluetony176 said:
Because the anchor Tennant went on rent strike, into administration and then abandoned the site in that order. Did you really miss that?

Do you really want to go to the polls everytime a decision needs making by a local council because that's what you seem to be suggesting? At the end of the day there's no indication that that had to happen at any stage regardless of whether you think it should have or not so why would it even be mentioned in JR2?

Because this is the real world not a fantasy land where everyone has to pander to the needs of SISU. The simple fact is that there was a confidentiality clause between Wasps and CCC as I suspect there would have been between SISU and CCC if SISU had have chosen to enter into serious negotiations for ACL. I hate to utter the words but its standard business practice. Which brings me back to my question. Why didn't SISU bid when invited to?
Click to expand...

Properly exposing council decisions regarding £14.4m of public money to scrutiny has nothing to do with going to the polls - so that's a pretty easy straw man to demolish. What the council seemingly did here is pressurise the CET to the point of costing a decent journalist his job, just so they could make the bailout in secret.

It most certainly is not standard business practice to go to the press saying that you want to take time to build trust with someone, whilst behind their back doing a deal with someone else. That unless you're in a particularly shitty, lying kind of business, and you don't give a bollocks about your reputation. That isn't (or at least shouldn't be) the same as the business as running local government.

When Tony, when exactly did SISU get the opportunity to bid for the Ricoh on the same terms as Wasps? On a 250-year lease, and at a similar price?

That question I'll answer for you, because I'm heartily sick of the bullshit here. Never, is when.

Anyone who thinks that this I'm saying this in defence of SISU is a dribbling idiot frankly, but I'm amazed that there are still so many in denial about what the council have done here. SISU will be gone one day, and I'll have a bottle of Champagne ready for when they go. However unless Wasps fail, they'll own the arena for the next 250 years.

SISU might have battered the club, but by doing what they've done the council have pretty much killed it.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,728
dongonzalos said:
The new leader is just saying what everyone thinks. The legal action is a waste of money that could be put to good use on the team
Click to expand...

Indeed but for things to move forward someone has to make the first move. As he's new in the role he is in the ideal position to offer the olive branch. Just say can we get together and see if there's a way to resolve things.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,729
dongonzalos said:
The new leader is just saying what everyone thinks. The legal action is a waste of money that could be put to good use on the team
Click to expand...

He's not saying what I think mate. If the council gave a shit about the club they'd have done what they promised and given it some time to build trust rather than jumping straight into bed with Wasps. I'd rather he just shut up about the club and quit pretending to care - it's crocodile tears.

If the Council want to draw a line under it maybe they could help by trying to find somewhere in or near the city for a new ground.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,730
duffer said:
He's not saying what I think mate. If the council gave a shit about the club they'd have done what they promised and given it some time to build trust rather than jumping straight into bed with Wasps. I'd rather he just shut up about the club and quit pretending to care - it's crocodile tears.

If the Council want to draw a line under it maybe they could help by trying to find somewhere in or near the city for a new ground.
Click to expand...

I think you underestimate how much effort they put in and how driven SISU were on shifting the goal posts. CCC were unanimous across all parties.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,731
duffer said:
If the Council want to draw a line under it maybe they could help by trying to find somewhere in or near the city for a new ground.
Click to expand...

Yup. I have to say I don't really care about SISU going after Wasps. If they crush Wasps into the ground, and die trying then it's all good. Just give us the husk of a football club back and an actual stadium, and I'd take the collatoral damage.

All this vain and nonsensical attempt to justify one move away but not the other is absolute gibberish tbh. I'm tired of arguing why as it appears the myopic spectacles of self-interest are all over that in certain instances.

Anyway, back to the original point of this thread(!) not surprised CCC have 'won' this. Have said all along, I'd be surprised if a council didn't follow due process. There may be many things councils are, but what they tend to be is inherantly risk-averse, and making a big decision such as this without covering their backs would be ineptitude of the highest order.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,732
Shakeitup said:
The fundamental flaw with trying to compare what Wasps management have done; moving from High Wycombe to Coventry, with what SISU have done; moving to Northampton. Is that rugby clubs in the UK are not founded and grounded along social class lines and very rarely stemmed from a local factory or something deeply rooted in the society.

Moving a team that has represented people that were boarders at a public school or were more mobile is very different than moving a team that represents the "working class" (whatever that means in today's society!), generally less mobile group.

What SISU did is far worse than what Wasps did.
Click to expand...

This is one of the posts of greatest bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to read.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,733
torchomatic said:
In law no CCC haven't done anything wrong. Morally? That's a different story.

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I am not so sure morally they have much of an issue, to be fair I think they stuck up for themselves and a charity.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,734
dongonzalos said:
I am not so sure morally they have much of an issue, to be fair I think they stuck up for themselves and a charity.
Click to expand...

Is the charity line coming out again all the time now?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,735
dongonzalos said:
I am not so sure morally they have much of an issue, to be fair I think they stuck up for themselves and a charity.
Click to expand...
Really? Stating Sports Clubs (not just football clubs) shouldn't be moved from their communities yet sell to Wasps.

Publically stating ownership would be discussed but trust needs to be built up first despite having already done a deal with Wasps?

I'm sure if that was SISU your attitude would be v totally different.

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Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,736
The trouble with the charity line is charities are big business. They can claim up to 40 percent of their income to spend on running costs. I don't trust most charities as far as I can throw them.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,737
Nick said:
Is the charity line coming out again all the time now?
Click to expand...
Weird no one complained when they got less as a result of the Wasps deal.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,738
Deleted member 5849 said:
This is one of the posts of greatest bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to read.
Click to expand...

So you believe that most professional football teams in England have the same meaning to the local as a professional rugby team?

They may mean a lot to local people. But what they mean and what they represent it totally different.

Moving a football team is much more powerful than moving a rugby team.

With such an articulate 'come back' I'm surprised you can read.
 
Last edited: May 13, 2016

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,739
torchomatic said:
In law no CCC haven't done anything wrong. Morally? That's a different story.

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Morally because you support Coventry City Football Club. I see where you are coming from and I am as frustrated as you are; but plenty of non fans see it differently. CCC don't just represent the football fans.
 
S

Shakeitup

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,740
Deleted member 5849 said:
This is one of the posts of greatest bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to read.
Click to expand...

Hobo said:
Morally because you support Coventry City Football Club. I see where you are coming from and I am as frustrated as you are; but plenty of non fans see it differently. CCC don't just represent the football fans.
Click to expand...

And based on average attendances it's a tiny minority!

Like I keep saying. SISU need to move on to move forward!
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,741
Shakeitup said:
And based on average attendances it's a tiny minority!

Like I keep saying. SISU need to move on to move forward!
Click to expand...

And that is what I have been saying. The fans now need to stand together as one and forget the past. We need to say to SISU enough is enough lets move the club forward.
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,742
SkyblueBazza said:
Not strictly true...Hedgefund 2 went on to bigger & better things & better deals. Hedgefund 1 went to Sickfields and back again, succeeding only in pissing off an awful lot of people along the way.

...onwards & upwards PUSB
Click to expand...

so to confirm, you would be happy if our new "club owned" stadium was in Watford ?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,743
Nick said:
Is the charity line coming out again all the time now?
Click to expand...

Never gone for me
Not a line
always been the most important factor for me.
I know for you its CCFC and nothing else but each to there own
 
Last edited: May 13, 2016
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,744
torchomatic said:
Weird no one complained when they got less as a result of the Wasps deal.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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Wished it was the exact amount they should have got. Would have been a nice touch if the Council gave a million of theirs to them. However I am sure many a tax payer would have been in up roar if that happened.
 
Last edited: May 13, 2016

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,745
Shakeitup said:
The fundamental flaw with trying to compare what Wasps management have done; moving from High Wycombe to Coventry, with what SISU have done; moving to Northampton. Is that rugby clubs in the UK are not founded and grounded along social class lines and very rarely stemmed from a local factory or something deeply rooted in the society.

Moving a team that has represented people that were boarders at a public school or were more mobile is very different than moving a team that represents the "working class" (whatever that means in today's society!), generally less mobile group.

What SISU did is far worse than what Wasps did.
Click to expand...

As a working class man, who watches football and Rugby (Northampton Saints) and has many working class mates who I also know at both sports (The Saints are embedded in their community a working class area) I would say your comment above is utter crap.

There is no difference between SISU and Wasps owners, both utter shits for moving their clubs and I dont want either near my football team.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,746
Shakeitup said:
So you believe that most professional football teams in England have the same meaning to the local as a professional rugby team?

They may mean a lot to local people. But what they mean and what they represent it totally different.

Moving a football team is much more powerful than moving a rugby team.

With such an articulate 'come back' I'm surprised you can read.
Click to expand...

I know quite a few People from across the midlands who are now regularly attending the Ricoh as Wasps fans. I also know quite a few ex saints fans now going to the Ricoh. It's all a bit weird for me but the loyalty in Rugby certainly is of a different nature.
Still don't agree that the RFC allows clubs to move. The FA were right to ban it after Wimbledon for foitball. Must be a reason why it's not banned in the rules of rugby?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,747
dongonzalos said:
I know quite a few People from across the midlands who are now regularly attending the Ricoh as Wasps fans. I also know quite a few ex saints fans now going to the Ricoh. It's all a bit weird for me but the loyalty in Rugby certainly is of a different nature.
Still don't agree that the RFC allows clubs to move. The FA were right to ban it after Wimbledon for foitball. Must be a reason why it's not banned in the rules of rugby?
Click to expand...

Do you think if Manchester United or Chelsea moved to coventry they would attract any support from the local community?

As for ex saints fans they are as passionate as football fans so that my friend is a lie.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,748
dongonzalos said:
Wished it was the exact amount they should have got. Would have been a nice touch if the Council gave a million of theirs to them. However I am sure many a tax payer would have been in up roar if that happened.
Click to expand...

True fans don't care if the charity got a single penny back. They made the investment the same as sisu.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,749
Grendel said:
Do you think if Manchester United or Chelsea moved to coventry they would attract any support from the local community?

As for ex saints fans they are as passionate as football fans so that my friend is a lie.
Click to expand...

Yes and would still draw a crowd from elsewhere because Glory hunters will travel. Plenty of people in the local community support those teams. Manchester United could move anywhere and be supported but that is not the point. The point is is they/ are MANCHESTER UNITED.

Does your Saints fan live in Northampton, are they from Northampton. I have an avid and passionate one next door to me with no connection to Northampton. So how is he part of the Northampton community.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 13, 2016
  • #1,750
Hobo said:
Yes and would still draw a crowd from elsewhere because Glory hunters will travel. Plenty of people in the local community support those teams. Manchester United could move anywhere and be supported but that is not the point. The point is is they/ are MANCHESTER UNITED.

Does your Saints fan live in Northampton, are they from Northampton. I have an avid and passionate one next door to me with no connection to Northampton. So how is he part of the Northampton community.
Click to expand...

I am referring to an allegation a saints fan changed allegiance when wasps arrived. I don't believe that to be the case. Do you?
 
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