Mean while back in court

[Brylowes]

That's the thing isn't it. Justice being done.

The best result would be the truth and justice wouldn't?

Without knowing the possible penalties / sisus plans based on either result we don't know which is best for the club?

Don't think we'll get a definitive result for many years.

 

[torchomatic]

Yeah, I agree.

Personally I don't care who "wins" as long as CCFC come out ok. And, at the end of the day, whoever "loses" will be the side who have done something they shouldn't have. As Nick said it's about justice.

That's me too. Would like the best result for Coventry City. I do also want justice to be done though. If someone has done wrong they should be brought to book on it.

I want Sisu gone, but the council also didn't do us any favours at all did they!

Just want to see it put to bed and a line drawn under the whole sorry saga.

 

[Captain Dart]

Yeah, I agree.

Personally I don't care who "wins" as long as CCFC come out ok. And, at the end of the day, whoever "loses" will be the side who have done something they shouldn't have. As Nick said it's about justice.

It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.

 

[Nick]

It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.

So if the judges rule the council did something wrong, the law is an ass. If they say they didn't, I guess the law and justice prevails?

 

[Shakeitup]

If 'we' had just paid for the Ricoh out of our own money we wouldn't have need a Higgs/council bail-out.

If we hadn't sold HFR we...

Too many ifs and buts.

Time to put it behind us and move on. The current owners should try to find a positive solution rather then desperately clutching at this straw!

The time, energy and money that has been spent on appeals could have been put into a real solution yet someone thought better of it!

CCC have not done enough to revive the city of Coventry during the current tenure. Having a vibrant football club as part of this should have been a big thing for them. Look at our M69 cousins. They're not blameless in this shambles, but the club need to take control of our destiny now!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

"Time to put it behind us and move on" - not possible for either SISU or CCFC - the status quo is unacceptable for both.

 

[Captain Dart]

So if the judges rule the council did something wrong, the law is an ass. If they say they didn't, I guess the law and justice prevails?

Please don't put words into my mouth, the law is an ass whatever happens. The whole issue is a bleedin' nightmare. The rent strike started in March 2012, ACL commenced legal action not too long afterwards.. and so on..

 

[torchomatic]

I presume you'll only agree with one "interpretation"?

It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.

 

[duffer]

It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.

Possibly, especially if you don't agree with it personally. But allowing a neutral court to decide is the worst form of justice except for all of the other forms that have been tried from time to time (to paraphrase Churchill).

Or we could just let the internet make the call on it, of course.

 

[Shakeitup]

Oh boy and aren't we the ones to know it!

SISU don't have any other plan it seems other than court action. So what if they get to the end of the line (the EU courts I am presuming) and still no joy. Will they start all over again?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Or we could just let the internet make the call on it, of course.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

 

[duffer]

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Exactly my thoughts. Cheaper too. Facebook poll anyone?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Whoever gets the nod from the judges tomorrow I seriously doubt that's the end to it.

If SISU win then there could be a CCC appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow

If CCC win then there could be a SISU appeal but certainly there will be legal proceedings initiated by SISU against those they feel have done them wrong that follow

All just my opinion of course. I think the legal proceedings are likely to run for some time yet

Will CCFC benefit from any of this, well you wouldn't think they could any time soon given how long legal proceedings take but in any case the legal cases are primarily for the benefit of the SISU investment funds. Of course as agents for the fund then SISU would be entitled to their fees attributable to the increase in fund value brought about by compensation claims. The first JR case has not been brought by Otium Entertainment trading as CCFC but by ARVO, SBS&L and CCFC H (now dissolved) it is of course SBS&L that owes the SISU investment fund 28.5m

As for right or wrong, I think that's going to remain a grey area. SISU win their case then it implies that CCC got things wrong legally, of course if SISU lose their case that same logic means CCC got things right legally. Cases such as this are often not clear cut (understatement in this saga)

 

[Captain Dart]

Whoever gets the nod from the judges tomorrow I seriously doubt that's the end to it.

<snip>

Cases such as this are often not clear cut (understatement in this saga)

That is the nub of the issue, this will rumble on and on and on..

Football in Coventry will not be the beneficiary. There will be another 3 or 4 years of all this.

 

[oucho]

I certainly won't be celebrating either outcome, it's weird. Imagine if somebody said they are going to be raising a glass if SISU win? They would probably get labelled a one-eyed delusionist.

Or they might be called "someone with a strong interest in seeing arrogant cut-throats getting their comeuppance."

 

[italiahorse]

So if the judges rule the council did something wrong, the law is an ass. If they say they didn't, I guess the law and justice prevails?

Havent some judges already ruled that CCC did nothing wrong ?
The law is an ass if you can keep appealing until a judge interprets the same facts differently.

Having said that I have no idea how you would sort this situation out !!

 

[oucho]

They won't win on a 'technicality' you dope - it's a fairly black and white judgment.

Don't call me a dope.

What I mean is, and what's actually very clear, is that the law can be an ass. Many cases have seen the "wrong" verdict handed down, simply because one party has got more expensive lawyers who can spot loopholes, and get away with arguing that black is white on technical but morally specious grounds.

You only have to read the original JR verdict by Gary Hodkinson to get a very clear view of the rights and wrongs. Sisu need some kind of obscure rule to "prove" the council have done wrong, and maybe they did technically, but that doesn't alter the overall theme which is that SISU tried to royally screw them and then cried foul when the council fought fire with fire.

 

[Grendel]

Or they might be called "someone with a strong interest in seeing arrogant cut-throats getting their comeuppance."

Yes defeat for Lucas would be a fitting end to the dire oligarchs rule and contribution for destroying sporting tradition in Coventry.

 

[Nick]

Or they might be called "someone with a strong interest in seeing arrogant cut-throats getting their comeuppance."

Yes, because the council aren't just as bad are they?

Either way, whether the council get their arse handed to them or SISU do. I very much doubt many will be opening a bottle of bubbly over it and preferring that result to promotion next year.

 

[covmark]

Yep. I'd take a definitive council win ahead of promotion next season. Genuinely. Really want to see those hard-nosed bastards get their just desserts.

Fucking hell, the stuff I read on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Your former username wouldn't be spider ricoh would it?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[torchomatic]

Very odd, isn't it? CCC had a similar attitude though when they sold out to Wasps. As long as it fucks over SISU who cares about the city, the club and the fans?

Fucking hell, the stuff I read on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Your former username wouldn't be spider ricoh would it?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[duffer]

Generally speaking 'the law is an ass' tends to be quoted by those who haven't got the judgement that they've already decided is correct.

There's a reason and a purpose for appeal courts, and a well-established process in civil and criminal law that can always eventually be exhausted This can't go on for ever, no matter what people believe.

Whether you think it's right that more money grants you a better chance of having your case heard/defended/appealed is a different matter. In this case though, the council have much bigger resources than SISU. Defending this won't break the council and if SISU lose this one then (once again) I'd guess that it will cost them some serious money. They know the risks, who is anyone to deny them (or anyone else) a day in court based on an opinion?

 

[Brylowes]

If 'we' had just paid for the Ricoh out of our own money we wouldn't have need a Higgs/council bail-out.

If we hadn't sold HFR we...

Too many ifs and buts.

Time to put it behind us and move on. The current owners should try to find a positive solution rather then desperately clutching at this straw!

The time, energy and money that has been spent on appeals could have been put into a real solution yet someone thought better of it!

CCC have not done enough to revive the city of Coventry during the current tenure. Having a vibrant football club as part of this should have been a big thing for them. LOOK AT OUR M69 COUSINS . They're not blameless in this shambles, but the club need to take control of our destiny now!

Cousin ! I always thought "there sister was there mother" and "tnere uncle was there brother".

 

[hill83]

Yep. I'd take a definitive council win ahead of promotion next season. Genuinely. Really want to see those hard-nosed bastards get their just desserts.

 

[dongonzalos]

This judgement doesn't really seem to deal with Justice to me.
It won't deal with what's morally right or wrong.
Whether the council did play dirty tricks or not.
Whether SISU were trying to drive down the price in order to get ACL at a bargain. Forcing the council to take this decision.
It won't look at were a Charity getting screwed over.
We don't get to look at SISU's emails and correspondence like with have with the council.
It seems we will never know the truth

All it seems to deal with is are a council allowed to use money in thia way or not. I assume they got legal advice when they did it. So they thought they were allowed to. They haven't been warned you can't do this ignored the advice and just cracked on with it.
So if the council are proved right it's not a massive deal for me as they would have just done what they were advised.
If SISU are proved right again it's not a massive deal. It will just show the council got bad legal advice.
I just hope that if SISU are right any compensation to be paid by central government. I don't want the people of Coventry be affected by this like the fans so far have been.

 

[Nick]

This judgement doesn't really seem to deal with Justice to me.
It won't deal with what's morally right or wrong.
Whether the council did play dirty tricks or not.
Whether SISU were trying to drive down the price in order to get ACL at a bargain. Forcing the council to take this decision.
It won't look at were a Charity getting screwed over.
We don't get to look at SISU's emails and correspondence like with have with the council.
It seems we will never know the truth

All it seems to deal with is are a council allowed to use money in thia way or not. I assume they got legal advice when they did it. So they thought they were allowed to. They haven't been warned you can't do this ignored the advice and just cracked on with it.
So if the council are proved right it's not a massive deal for me as they would have just done what they were advised.
If SISU are proved right again it's not a massive deal. It will just show the council got bad legal advice.
I just hope that if SISU are right any compensation to be paid by central government. I don't want the people of Coventry be affected by this like the fans so far have been.

There's no law for morals though, as we have seen with the councils code of conduct that is meant to do that, it doesn't matter a bit anyway.

If there was a prison sentence, every one of them would be ordering soap on a rope.

 

[dongonzalos]

There's no law for morals though, as we have seen with the councils code of conduct that is meant to do that, it doesn't matter a bit anyway.

If there was a prison sentence, every one of them would be ordering soap on a rope.

I know we will never get to the bottom of it.
The ethics committee only looked at one side.
So potentially as much as it was a whitewash it didn't carry much purpose for me unless both sides were having the same examination.
I just don't think these JR's really tell us much about the whole thing.
Its just coming down to was the legal advice the council got right or not.
It's tells us nothing about the true motivations and aims of either side

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Whether you think it's right that more money grants you a better chance of having your case heard/defended/appealed is a different matter. In this case though, the council have much bigger resources than SISU.

Really? Do you think so Duffer?

I would've thought it would've been the other way round due to councils funding essentially coming from central Govt/public money. Surely SISU could pump millions and millions into legal paths...I wouldn't have though a public body would be able to do that, especially given the current climate.

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell, the stuff I read on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Your former username wouldn't be spider ricoh would it?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Yes it's the same guy. CJ Parker before that. He's the guy who thought crowds should gather outside Tim fishers child's school and protest

 

[Captain Dart]

Really? Do you think so Duffer?

I would've thought it would've been the other way round due to councils funding essentially coming from central Govt/public money. Surely SISU could pump millions and millions into legal paths...I wouldn't have though a public body would be able to do that, especially given the current climate.

Think you are barking up the wrong tree, the council is controlled by politicians, they may eventually take a different view, after all politics often involves distasteful compromise.

The hedge fund doesn't give 2 hoots about public perception, but there is the matter of Sepalla's business reputation, to avoid tarnishing the hard-nut image she will grind on and on...

Well that is the way I see it.. doesn't really tell you the eventual result..

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It isn't about justice, it is about whose interpretation of the law is eventually accepted. Sometimes the law is a complete ass.

Would tend to agree.

SISU win, doesn't stop them being immoral loons.

CCC win... doesn't stop them being immoral loons.

Basically we're still caught between two sets of nutters, whoever wins!

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

What I have never understood is if SISU win and demonstrate that the money lent by the local authority was not lawful, what is the recourse for SISU?
Surely, the local authority face UK or European sanctions or penalties, why would they be then asked to pay compensation to SISU.
SISU acquired the club knowing they rented the ground and at what point with that contract, did they give a fuck about how it was funded.

they cannot void the sale to Wasps now can they? If that were the case then the liability to the local authority would be huge.

anyone provide a simple what it's worth to SISU to win this case financially or not and how they were disadvantaged by what the council did wrong to THEM?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Think you are barking up the wrong tree, the council is controlled by politicians, they may eventually take a different view, after all politics often involves distasteful compromise.

The hedge fund doesn't give 2 hoots about public perception, but there is the matter of Sepalla's business reputation, to avoid tarnishing the hard-nut image she will grind on and on...

Well that is the way I see it.. doesn't really tell you the eventual result..

Aren't you saying what I was saying though? That SISU would potentially spend more on taking things further?

 

[Ian1779]

What I have never understood is if SISU win and demonstrate that the money lent by the local authority was not lawful, what is the recourse for SISU?
Surely, the local authority face UK or European sanctions or penalties, why would they be then asked to pay compensation to SISU.
SISU acquired the club knowing they rented the ground and at what point with that contract, did they give a fuck about how it was funded.

they cannot void the sale to Wasps now can they? If that were the case then the liability to the local authority would be huge.

anyone provide a simple what it's worth to SISU to win this case financially or not and how they were disadvantaged by what the council did wrong to THEM?

If SISU won and were duly compensated - then what would be enough for them to get out of dodge?

If that was a serious possibility - it would be in all our interests for them to be successful.

Then of course we start the merry-go-round again with some different owners.

 

[dongonzalos]

What I have never understood is if SISU win and demonstrate that the money lent by the local authority was not lawful, what is the recourse for SISU?
Surely, the local authority face UK or European sanctions or penalties, why would they be then asked to pay compensation to SISU.
SISU acquired the club knowing they rented the ground and at what point with that contract, did they give a fuck about how it was funded.

they cannot void the sale to Wasps now can they? If that were the case then the liability to the local authority would be huge.

anyone provide a simple what it's worth to SISU to win this case financially or not and how they were disadvantaged by what the council did wrong to THEM?

Only a guess.....

A private civil claim for compensation with all this as the evidence

Request the remedy is that Wasps pay a higher amount putting pressure on Wasps.

Request compensation as a remedy

I see both remedy's as unlikely so I presume it's the top one.

As I say only a guess