madders gone (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter skybluesam66
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
He is still here. Nothing has actually changed.
idm1975
Well-Known Member
Who now holds his registration?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Well it has changed Grendel because he has been sold for a small sum. I genuinely believe if we got 5m plus add ons then there wouldn't be the madness and hysteria.
I'm fuming at 2million as he is worth more and not played a full season for us yet. If I am told 5 million then I would of gotten over it and thought good deal.
Mick Scoop
Member
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Having trouble there Mick? Lol
Nick
Administrator
But he isn't worth that, is he? So is that just down to people over estimating because of JM10 the brand and the fact he is from CCFC?
If it was Lameires for example, played the same amount of games, exactly the same stats etc then would there be outrage at £2m?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
People seemed convinced he would go on deadline day. Personally I didn't think there would be any takers, certainly not Tottenham, Liverpool or Arsenal anyway.
People seemed annoyed at the terms of the deal, although I am not convinced we know what the deal is?
We know he is loaned back, which is what people wanted if he was sold. Now some people are saying he should just piss off.
It seems to me people could cope if it had been Tottenham. But because it is Norwich people have gone into melt down. People still haven't come to terms with the fact we are a league 1 club.
Norwich is a good move for Maddison at this stage in his career and development. He would have disappeared at Tottenham.
People seemed annoyed at the terms of the deal, although I am not convinced we know what the deal is?
We know he is loaned back, which is what people wanted if he was sold. Now some people are saying he should just piss off.
It seems to me people could cope if it had been Tottenham. But because it is Norwich people have gone into melt down. People still haven't come to terms with the fact we are a league 1 club.
Norwich is a good move for Maddison at this stage in his career and development. He would have disappeared at Tottenham.
The Reverend Skyblue
Well-Known Member
Yes Maddison is still here but he's not our player anymore and planning for next season is without him, there aren't too many players we've had who will put bums on seats, Maddison would have next season.
so instead we've got to put with Bigi,Job,and Connor fucking Thomas.
watch the season tickets fly out the ticketing office this August with that motley crew as the main watch.
attendances will fall in my opinion, this season and next, keep taking away the hope and a lot of fans will to
so instead we've got to put with Bigi,Job,and Connor fucking Thomas.
watch the season tickets fly out the ticketing office this August with that motley crew as the main watch.
attendances will fall in my opinion, this season and next, keep taking away the hope and a lot of fans will to
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I have to say i'm a bit disappointed......
I haven't got an issue with him being sold in itself, anyone who thought he would be here for more than another 12-18 months is kidding themselves, but it does give the impression that we've offloaded him at the first opportunity. It was acknowledged that top end clubs were looking at him, and if we'd kept him until the summer it's not like his value would have decreased.
Time will tell how good he turns out to be, but at £2m it seems like we've given him away.
I haven't got an issue with him being sold in itself, anyone who thought he would be here for more than another 12-18 months is kidding themselves, but it does give the impression that we've offloaded him at the first opportunity. It was acknowledged that top end clubs were looking at him, and if we'd kept him until the summer it's not like his value would have decreased.
Time will tell how good he turns out to be, but at £2m it seems like we've given him away.
idm1975
Well-Known Member
You think £2m is a good deal for the club?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
One of those who went for a price many were disappointed at, another of those was set to go for a price many were disappointed at (until Liverpool werewise enough to take him on loan first!)
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
But that's the point Nick, even if he isn't worth 5million and we did sell for the reported 2m then why sell? He hasn't played a full season yet even in league 1. TM said the same. Once he becomes proven and more games he will only get better and better and worth more and more that's why I think it's an outrage.
Alright we don't know the full details but it's seems common knowledge it's 2m plus add ons. Not enough. Probably right for the games he has played but he would be worth double or treble that in a year or twos time. It's short sightedness.
What worries me most is TM wouldn't have authorized this deal surely? That's the scary part.
Nick
Administrator
Again, it is hard to tell now isn't it. It might well be in 4 or 5 years with hindsight.
He has played a handful of games, yes he has scored a couple of good goals.
If he had been majorly influencing our season with 100 games under his belt it would be a different story.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Unless it was the only way for Mowbray to have the squad he wanted. He's already shown with his choice of loanees and older players on short term contracts, that he very much looks to the here and now, rather than the long term.
idm1975
Well-Known Member
So if something goes wrong in his career its a good deal....what about if his career goes how we all think it will go?
Calista
Well-Known Member
NW - I've "liked" this not because I like it (if you know what I mean), but because I think you are spot on with your interpretation.
But the problem remains that we have sold this outstanding young player too soon and for too little money. He might have funded us for several seasons if we'd allowed his talent to be fully proven before selling. Terrible judgement IMO.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Have the club or Norwich confirmed it was 2 million?
If it was its not good enough, if it was more then they have done better. We can argue about it all day but lets face it we will never get a whiff of the exact figure apart from a journalist making a guess, which is what journalists do every fucking day.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Personally, I agree we should have taken the gamble of seeing how he progressed (or didn't). The worrying thing for us is it looks like we had little choice in being able to take that path.
I do wonder, however, what the answer would be if it were Mowbray's choice, in order for him to sign Cole, Hunt, Bigi and Armstrong on loan till the end of the season, whether people would have rather kept Maddison, had a worse side this season but potentially a more saleable asset... which one they'd have taken.
Personally I'd have gone the keep Maddison route.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I think mowbray is a football man. He has said as much regarding Maddison. He said he needs to stay and Flourish. We have an asset and like a asset should it will only grow. He is under the best guidance in TM no need to sell other than short term full cash.
Also the fact JM was sold at the last knockings and Anderson was our media source for the concluded deal and only one to comment says it all.
What did Jason farndon put on Twitter? Thumbs down. Cryptic message saying "this is bullshit"
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
He also said he'd only consider a deal if Maddison was loaned back for the season.
Well, that's what he's got.
covmark
Well-Known Member
Yep agree with this. Massive outrage at a guess at £2m. People need to get a grip with this season over bollocks as well. We've got him back for the rest of the season and added a couple of defenders. So what's changed?.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
True. I just think he won't be happy at the outcome. Guess we have to wait for his comments regarding Maddison from himself. If he isn't happy I guess he will tell us.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Surprised that this has happened now. Thought it would happen in the summer...... but not to Norwich.
If it is £2m, then for a young lad who as yet has proven very little in L1 let alone higher, is a decent valuation. Comparing it to say Deli Ali is a bit of a stretch to be honest, that was £5m for a player of same age that had played 100 or so first team games and had influenced the results in a bigger percentage of games than Maddison. To expect £7m for Maddison right now or even in the summer is frankly fantasy in my opinion. He may become worth that but he isn't now. Yes he has potential but no real track record
There may of course be add ons so the overall fee might be bigger assuming he succeeds at Norwich. Transfer fees are usually staggered payments so the financial effect will be spread too. Unlikely there will be a big upfront payment I would think. Say it is £2m in value then in current circumstances TM gets 60% added to his budget at the time that each payment is made so that 1.2m increase in budget could/would be spread over two years or something like. However part of the value will include the value of the loan - its cost, so that reduces the budget available. Is that loan valued at his new wages, the old wages or some other figure
A club like Norwich probably does give Maddison a better opportunity to play in the first team than say Spurs or Liverpool so for him it is a better option probably , and in any case he is still young and the opportunity to move is going to be there in the future. Certainly the worst it could be is the opportunity to definitely be playing in the Championship if he is good enough next season.
I find the comments of Anderson a little troubling. A sale of Maddison at a guessed at £2m secures the clubs future ...... really ? It is not exactly big numbers is it and it will be spread over probably two years. Just how many proven players have we got signed on past 30th June 2016?
Seemed to be rushed through but was it? TM clearly didn't want him to go. Listening to his after match comments on Saturday then there did seem to be something going on judging by his comments about transfers. I might be reading too much in to that but I did wonder at the time.
Can we now put to bed this idea that SISU are backing a promotion push with extra funds? Personally I still think SISU have drawn a line under the finance and said get on with it sink or swim........ but still retain the final decision on the sales/purchases (as you would expect)
Bottom line is nothing in the finances has really changed, we are still in a mess, we still rely on crowds turning up and player sales............. but therein lies the conundrum we need to sell to fund the team but in so doing lose our best talent, which in turn puts at risk any success on the pitch which in its turn affects the numbers through the gates. TM has a very tough job
Can't help feeling disappointed by this however ...... seems to be the usual feeling connected with CCFC
If it is £2m, then for a young lad who as yet has proven very little in L1 let alone higher, is a decent valuation. Comparing it to say Deli Ali is a bit of a stretch to be honest, that was £5m for a player of same age that had played 100 or so first team games and had influenced the results in a bigger percentage of games than Maddison. To expect £7m for Maddison right now or even in the summer is frankly fantasy in my opinion. He may become worth that but he isn't now. Yes he has potential but no real track record
There may of course be add ons so the overall fee might be bigger assuming he succeeds at Norwich. Transfer fees are usually staggered payments so the financial effect will be spread too. Unlikely there will be a big upfront payment I would think. Say it is £2m in value then in current circumstances TM gets 60% added to his budget at the time that each payment is made so that 1.2m increase in budget could/would be spread over two years or something like. However part of the value will include the value of the loan - its cost, so that reduces the budget available. Is that loan valued at his new wages, the old wages or some other figure
A club like Norwich probably does give Maddison a better opportunity to play in the first team than say Spurs or Liverpool so for him it is a better option probably , and in any case he is still young and the opportunity to move is going to be there in the future. Certainly the worst it could be is the opportunity to definitely be playing in the Championship if he is good enough next season.
I find the comments of Anderson a little troubling. A sale of Maddison at a guessed at £2m secures the clubs future ...... really ? It is not exactly big numbers is it and it will be spread over probably two years. Just how many proven players have we got signed on past 30th June 2016?
Seemed to be rushed through but was it? TM clearly didn't want him to go. Listening to his after match comments on Saturday then there did seem to be something going on judging by his comments about transfers. I might be reading too much in to that but I did wonder at the time.
Can we now put to bed this idea that SISU are backing a promotion push with extra funds? Personally I still think SISU have drawn a line under the finance and said get on with it sink or swim........ but still retain the final decision on the sales/purchases (as you would expect)
Bottom line is nothing in the finances has really changed, we are still in a mess, we still rely on crowds turning up and player sales............. but therein lies the conundrum we need to sell to fund the team but in so doing lose our best talent, which in turn puts at risk any success on the pitch which in its turn affects the numbers through the gates. TM has a very tough job
Can't help feeling disappointed by this however ...... seems to be the usual feeling connected with CCFC
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Nick
Administrator
I agree with all of it, the last paragraph though is surely the same dilemma that 95-99% of lower league managers face?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
It certainly is Nick but most clubs seem to find a way to at least seem to move forward....... cant help but feel we find a way to develop inertia
Nick
Administrator
It's the difference between a good manager and a bad one as well I think.
In this case Mowbray isn't losing a player who has had a massive influence on the season like when we sold Wilson. We have been without him most of the season, and in a large % of his games he hasn't had a massive impact (Yes he has scored a couple of good goals).
Like you say with Ali at MK Dons, he was their main man. Maddison wasn't ours (he could have been in a few years), a lot of it was hype / potential rather than what was actually happening on the pitch.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Although arguably we've moved forward this season.
My stuck record will say if the moving forward is on loans and one-year veterans however... where's the next Maddison going to be unearthed from? Surely we need to set aside £500k, say, to go fishing in the division below us for one of their standout players to develop?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
will be interesting to see if at the end of the season if Maddison not playing well and we are out of contention how the fans react to him. No doubt we can guess but the lad will not deserve it.... good luck to him, he has to look after his own career not the future of CCFC
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
You could argue that but the season isn't over yet NW
Agree with you ..... we seem to be developing a lot of other teams players in L1 or easing down older careers. I know a lot of teams do it but somehow I would like to see more of our own. Question how secure is the Academy set up at CCFC? That goes and I think we will be in big trouble even having said the above
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
Totaly agree with your sentiments and i do believe the deal has been setup to give us a gauranteed income stream over the next two years and hopefully a sell% that would give us a Bonza payout if he goes to one of the big boys which in my opinion is a cert! I do feel for Mowbury and i think he is an honourable man and will take us to the end of season but would suggest this sale will have made his mind to move on in the closed season to a bigger club with aspiration better than our owners.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
And that was Pressley's strength, bringing on the academy players. Mowbray seems more disposed to plugging holes which, from his POV, you can understand (doesn't help him giving youngsters experience if he's sacked while they learn!) but maybe doesn't help us.
One thing selling the likes of Maddison does do is fund the academy, I'd presume. Between him and WIlson we've justified the academy exisiting for another, what, decade based on their fees... and that's not even taking into account the likes of Willis and co who have a vital role to play in the squad.
I suppose selling Maddison also gives motivation to those already there that if they work hard, they too can get a move to a Premiership team, and maybe swings youngsters with a choice over which academy to join, too.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Got to have the facilities for the Academy though it isn't just about the players. For instance Category 2 requires indoor training facilities. As I understood it the indoor facilities at the Higgs were worn out and needed replacing. Has that been settled, have we the finances to settle it if needed. Lose the Cat 2 we lose a chunk of funding and the spiral down continues
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Which is where being able to sell the likes of Maddison encourages a desire to fund such things.
Edit - it's also where, tbh, Id have been a lot more confident in Pressley in charge that this would happen, than Mowbray. If Mowbray's fully in charge of playing budget, where's his motivation to do this for a result in five, ten years' time?
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