Grendel
Well-Known Member
They all dropped down the league pyramid
Halifax, Chester, Newport all still exist.
They did.They all dropped down the league pyramid
They did.
And came back.
Both irrelevant to their existence though.
We're now Otium Entertainment Group trading as Coventry City. If you're splitting hairs, the club that was Coventry City no longer exists.Chester are a different club, don't know about the others without googling.
Still Coventry City though and not AFC Coventry City or something like that.We're now Otium Entertainment Group trading as Coventry City. If you're splitting hairs, the club that was Coventry City no longer exists.
You try telling Newport fans theyre a different club. It's an insult to suggest it, given the work they've done to keep their name alive.
Still Newport County!Still Coventry City though and not AFC Coventry City or something like that.
The limited companys behind will change all the time.
Didn't Newport change their name too?Still Newport County!
Napoli, Fiorentina still exist.
We're now Otium Entertainment Group trading as Coventry City. If you're splitting hairs, the club that was Coventry City no longer exists.
You try telling Newport fans theyre a different club. It's an insult to suggest it, given the work they've done to keep their name alive.
They did.
And came back.
Both irrelevant to their existence though.
Wasn't that after things had been moved to another company it was then closed?
Well partly I was just being a nob, but also I find this whole “if it’s not exactly the same organisation it’s NOTHING TO ME!!” A little dramatic. The club isn’t a golden share or a corporation, it’s in all of us (off to vomit now)
Is Liquidation the plan to try and distress to get rid of SISU now? It's a very dangerous game, much like when ACL forced into administration to try and get the club handed over.
.
Given we're told that the club can be separated from SISU as much because the club is the players, the fans, the goals, the atmosphere... that remains regardless.And that's the issue. There's a growing band of fans who don't want to keep the CURRENT club alive, it's almost if.....they want us to be liquidated. Surely not!
It does appear to be a clever way to keep control. I think one part where SISU failed in their thinking/plan was losing track of the rules over the right to buy back the Higgs shares (either by way of a maximum calculated price, or a negotiated lower one). This allowed the possibility of other parties acquiring ACL in the knowledge that the football club no longer had the right to buy a 50% stake. If the club had retained the right to buy 50% I can't see that anyone else would have bought ACL.Got to look at the actual timeline to realise that ACL were never actually in control of that process.
When the rent strike started Sisu investors were in control of the assets and the process. Assets were no longer in Ccfc limited. The largest creditor had the say over what happened in the process. That was SISU. They remained in control throughout the process.
The process
Ccfc Ltd sued in high court for rent debt. Unchallenged by Ccfc ltd. Judgement given against Ccfc Ltd. Debt unpaid ACL have to move to next part of process
Ccfc Ltd sued in county court for rent debt. Unchallenged by Ccfc Ltd judgement given to ACL against Ccfc limited. Debt unpaid ACL have to move to next part of process.
Statutory demand for payment of debt issued by ACL against Ccfc Ltd. Remains unpaid and unchallenged.
Final option to recover debt is to pursue administration. At which point the largest creditor steps in to take final control of any administration.
It then becomes apparent that assets thought for years to be within Ccfc Ltd had moved to another company some months or years before. ACL may have thought they were in control of the legal process may even have thought they could create new ownership. The reality is that once the massive debt was created and the key assets moved to other group companies before or during the original rent strike then they were following a course set for them by Sisu with the ultimate successful aim for Sisu of breaking the lease at the ricoh.
All perfectly legal and to be honest pretty clever
So who really created the Ccfc administration, ACL might have filed an application that was never granted but ACL were never in control of a very clever use of process. So in reality regime change never was anything other than sound bites ..... It simply was not possible or available. It seems to me Sisu created the administration, planned it to safeguard assets and made successful use of legal process for once
Just a thought,
Everyone seems to think that liquidation would be the end game for the club, however Nuneaton went into liquidation in 2008, but the club reformed almost immediately. They had to change name of course (they reverted from Nuneaton Borough to their old name of Nuneaton Town) but they still play at the same ground and are still seem to be considered the same team. I know it's not the best source but here is the entry from Wikipedia:-
"Following the club's liquidation, the club reformed, this time as Nuneaton Town. The new club was forced (at the insistence of the FA) to revert to its former name of Nuneaton Town."
As I say - just a thought.
It does appear to be a clever way to keep control. I think one part where SISU failed in their thinking/plan was losing track of the rules over the right to buy back the Higgs shares (either by way of a maximum calculated price, or a negotiated lower one). This allowed the possibility of other parties acquiring ACL in the knowledge that the football club no longer had the right to buy a 50% stake. If the club had retained the right to buy 50% I can't see that anyone else would have bought ACL.
Wouldn't that be based on SISU assuming there would be no other credible bidders for ACL though?Did they ? Or was the intention that ACL would go bust and sisu could effect regime change of their own and for a pittance?
If we go out of business, then Braintree or AN Other would take our place in the league. We'd have to find out which non league would accept us.Haven't read all the thread, but if there were an impasse and we had nowhere to play, presumably the golden share would have to be handed back? If so, can a.n. other (presumably not Otium related, otherwise Wasps wouldn't talk to them) obtain the share from the Football league and restart the club AND play at The Ricoh? I don't know what the sanctions would be (demotion etc), but is this a possibility? If so, I know SISU would have lawyers lined up to sue the world - but frankly, who cares. Not sure where that would leave the players, management etc, but I'd be prepared for almost anything to get the monkey off our backs.
Wouldn't that be based on SISU assuming there would be no other credible bidders for ACL though?
Yup, it's where the notion of a boycott at Northampton was flawed. SISU were prepared to lose money, as long as there was the opportunity of gaining more. As soon as that went out the window - back they came! Far harder to argue against a sale to Wasps, if they're in Northampton.Yes and right up until they got wind of a serious threat from wasps they believed it was working. More than anything the wasps deal forced Sisu to bring Ccfc back. They miscalculated. Had they not come back from sixfields then there was no way to create any pressure on other parties. Ccfc would have died in Northampton and Sisu hopes of investor return with it.
The problem in the scenario we have is it would be SISU making the decision and unless someone is going to offer them millions for the assets that constitute the club, unlikely now let alone if we've lost our league status, they will liquidate. Can't see any reason why they wouldn't.However it is perfectly possible to liquidate a company with no intention of reforming as a new entity. Registrations etc allowed to lapse rather than sold or transferred. Which of course maximises a shareholders losses. Any new entity would be an entirely new club legally.
They all ceased to exist end reformed under a different trading name
This is where ACL, CCC and the Trust misjudged things. Was clear with who was sniffing around at the time they were trying to force regime change but when it turned out SISU had moved the assets around without the FL noticing it was game over for that plan.So who really created the Ccfc administration, ACL might have filed an application that was never granted but ACL were never in control of a very clever use of process. So in reality regime change never was anything other than sound bites ..... It simply was not possible or available. It seems to me Sisu created the administration, planned it to safeguard assets and made successful use of legal process for once
Who gives a shit about the trading name though? We have changed trading name.
They still ceased to exist and had to reform - so if no one wanted to reform no club
It sounds like there's no point in anyone asking them to drop the legals then, it's their best (maybe only) way of getting an investor return.Yes and right up until they got wind of a serious threat from wasps they believed it was working. More than anything the wasps deal forced Sisu to bring Ccfc back. They miscalculated that there were no other options. Had they not come back from sixfields then there was no way to create any pressure on other parties. Ccfc would have died in Northampton and Sisu hopes of investor return with it.
The problem in the scenario we have is it would be SISU making the decision and unless someone is going to offer them millions for the assets that constitute the club, unlikely now let alone if we've lost our league status, they will liquidate. Can't see any reason why they wouldn't.
It’s not just a trading name. It’s an entirely new company and would mean a new team playing in the 9th tier below Sphinx as well as the small matter of having somewhere to play
Indeed. It's also missed that it's what's best for their investors as a whole. The benefits of winding the club up rather than selling it on could be more overall, even if the immediate financial loss is slightly worse.Certainly an option, particularly if that is the best option for their investors overall.
It has always been and will remain what is best for the investors. There is every possibility that what is best for them is not what is best for Ccfc. People do not seem to understand that.
This is where ACL, CCC and the Trust misjudged things. Was clear with who was sniffing around at the time they were trying to force regime change but when it turned out SISU had moved the assets around without the FL noticing it was game over for that plan.
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