Legal action (2 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Classic divide and rule tactics; let's blame taxing-paying migrants and take the attention away from the cuts made by the government. Sadly so many fall for it.

 

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[Sick Boy]

But the other side is Boris, Gove and Farage!

Don't forget Griffin, Le Pen & Trump! UKIP have also been in a alliance and a far-right Polish party and La Lega Nord in the European Parliament. Lega Nord is an openly fascist party.

 

[Sick Boy]

If you look at the ones shouting the most to stay you will find the majority to be silver spoon tories.

Absolute nonsense and about as accurate as the UK being the only country in Europe with a reliable water supply.

 

[torchomatic]

But the other side is Boris, Gove and Farage!

Rock and hard place.

Sent from my P9000 using Tapatalk

 

[SkyBlueZack]

That shouldn't be the reason people come to our Country. Many genuine people living on benefits have been deemed fit to work that physically or mentally are incapable of doing so have commited suicide because they can't cope on the money they're getting. The Government have hidden figures of the proof but now are being pushed to show those figures. Why do you think that fucking little weasel Ian Duncan Smith resigned??? These poor people have had money that they're ,entitled too taken away and given to economic migrants that have paid sweet FA into the system. If you come to Britain to work..No problem, but if you come to claim the benefits then bugger off.

Having worked for the DWP for 5 and a half years. I'm probably more aware than yourself what the Government have done to the welfare system. You prove my point though, it's the government doing it not the EU. No I agree it shouldn't be the reason people come here. Wouldn't you though? When you see British people taking the piss when they were fortunate enough to be born in a land where you have free education, healthcare, welfare system and human rights. That they haven't taken advantage of that and believe I'm British, it's my right to just claim benefit. You claim humanity on behalf of people deemed fit to work, rightly so. Yet on the other hand don't believe people wanting a better life or to escape a worse world have a right to come here. As for money being taken away and given to economic migrants, you're massively off target with that. Must of read it in the paper. There is a budget. The money comes out of that. It's not taken off one and given to another. A massive proportion of welfare money is spent on pensions. Were you aware of that? Just that the papers don't say much about it. They prefer the immigrants just want free money and people don't want to work. That is not the case. It's a vote winner though, in part because people are stupid enough to buy it.

 

[Astute]

Classic divide and rule tactics; let's blame taxing-paying migrants and take the attention away from the cuts made by the government. Sadly so many fall for it.

So all migrants pay tax, there is so much money that there is no need for cuts to health services as well as to the needy and all the homes and infrastructure is in place to take in enough people to fill a whole city each year.

Or is it you that has fallen for the scare stories of leaving the EU?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Why... Are we having a referendum on something that we never signed up for in the first place?

 

[Astute]

Having worked for the DWP for 5 and a half years. I'm probably more aware than yourself what the Government have done to the welfare system. You prove my point though, it's the government doing it not the EU. No I agree it shouldn't be the reason people come here. Wouldn't you though? When you see British people taking the piss when they were fortunate enough to be born in a land where you have free education, healthcare, welfare system and human rights. That they haven't taken advantage of that and believe I'm British, it's my right to just claim benefit. You claim humanity on behalf of people deemed fit to work, rightly so. Yet on the other hand don't believe people wanting a better life or to escape a worse world have a right to come here. As for money being taken away and given to economic migrants, you're massively off target with that. Must of read it in the paper. There is a budget. The money comes out of that. It's not taken off one and given to another. A massive proportion of welfare money is spent on pensions. Were you aware of that? Just that the papers don't say much about it. They prefer the immigrants just want free money and people don't want to work. That is not the case. It's a vote winner though, in part because people are stupid enough to buy it.

So what about the lack of housing and infrastructure to be able to cope with the influx?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

So all migrants pay tax, there is so much money that there is no need for cuts to health services as well as to the needy and all the homes and infrastructure is in place to take in enough people to fill a whole city each year.

Or is it you that has fallen for the scare stories of leaving the EU?

There is a fair bit of money, you're right. Don't want us to know that though. As I said earlier, plenty of money for wars. There is also the small matter of tax evasion. Why has that not been tackled along with immigration and welfare? Just perhaps because politicians benefit from that? That they are in it for themselves and only think of short term, which again I have said earlier.

 

[Sick Boy]

So all migrants pay tax, there is so much money that there is no need for cuts to health services as well as to the needy and all the homes and infrastructure is in place to take in enough people to fill a whole city each year.

Or is it you that has fallen for the scare stories of leaving the EU?

Yes there is enough money but sadly it doesn't get distributed properly. Do you think it is acceptable that law-abiding, tax paying EU migrants are being made scapegoats for this? A lot of those who come to the UK benefit our society.
As I said earlier, we will return back to Italy if there is a vote to leave and the NHS will lose a very talented midwife. She isn't the only one of her colleagues who will be looking to leave, so you'll get your wish, I suppose.

There is a fair bit of money, you're right. Don't want us to know that though. As I said earlier, plenty of money for wars. There is also the small matter of tax evasion. Why has that not been tackled along with immigration and welfare? Just perhaps because politicians benefit from that? That they are in it for themselves and only think of short term, which again I have said earlier.

Sadly you're wasting your time.

 

[Astute]

There is a fair bit of money, you're right. Don't want us to know that though. As I said earlier, plenty of money for wars. There is also the small matter of tax evasion. Why has that not been tackled along with immigration and welfare? Just perhaps because politicians benefit from that? That they are in it for themselves and only think of short term, which again I have said earlier.

Tax evasion that is legally right because of EU laws. And we can't do a lot about it because we are part of the EU

 

[SkyBlueZack]

So what about the lack of housing and infrastructure to be able to cope with the influx?

How many empty properties do you see when you're out and about? How much inner city land is available outside of London? How many social houses are being built to allow low earners somewhere to live? Is this the fault of the EU?

 

[Astute]

Yes there is enough money but sadly it doesn't get distributed properly.


Sadly you're wasting your time.

So instead of cuts to the health service and needy where is this money hiding?

 

[Sick Boy]

So instead of cuts to the health service and needy where is this money hiding?

Are you being serious now?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Tax evasion that is legally right because of EU laws. And we can't do a lot about it because we are part of the EU

So you believe we opt out of EU and Government will close all tax loopholes? :hilarious:

 

[Astute]

How many empty properties do you see when you're out and about? How much inner city land is available outside of London? How many social houses are being built to allow low earners somewhere to live? Is this the fault of the EU?

Very rarely see empty houses where I live. So where do we keep housing people when the housing isn't available?

 

[Astute]

Are you being serious now?

Yes.

 

[chiefdave]

As with most things these days there's been little proper debate and people are seeing as a binary issue. If we stay in there are still issues with the EU that need to be address, equally if we come out it won't solve all of our problems.

 

[Astute]

So you believe we opt out of EU and Government will close all tax loopholes? :hilarious:

So who said all loopholes?

We are in the EU. They make rules we have to abide to. Out of the EU we can sort them out a lot easier. Staying in the EU and trying to sort them out is like getting turkey to vote for Christmas.

 

[chiefdave]

Very rarely see empty houses where I live. So where do we keep housing people when the housing isn't available?

You have to stop building for profit and instead build to meet the demand. Look at the numbers around replacement social housing for the properties sold off under right to buy. Look at how many right to buy properties are now in the hands of private landlords, in many places being rented back to the taxpayer at inflated amount.

 

[Astute]

As with most things these days there's been little proper debate and people are seeing as a binary issue. If we stay in there are still issues with the EU that need to be address, equally if we come out it won't solve all of our problems.

Can't fault a word of this. Absolutely spot on.

 

[Astute]

You have to stop building for profit and instead build to meet the demand. Look at the numbers around replacement social housing for the properties sold off under right to buy. Look at how many right to buy properties are now in the hands of private landlords, in many places being rented back to the taxpayer at inflated amount.

Yes to a point. But it hasn't caused a lack of housing. It has caused a lack of affordable housing. And affordable housing won't happen until we can build enough houses where the homeless number comes down and not stand still at best.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So all migrants pay tax

Well... there's a net benefit to migration.

Can't really split it out into individual cases, else let's shoot the workshy British while we're at it.

 

[Kingokings204]

Well... there's a net benefit to migration.

Can't really split it out into individual cases, else let's shoot the workshy British while we're at it.

Is there a net benefit? Not so sure

 

[skyblueinBaku]

let's shoot the workshy British while we're at it.

Leave me out of this NW!

 

[Sick Boy]

Well... there's a net benefit to migration.

Can't really split it out into individual cases, else let's shoot the workshy British while we're at it.

Exactly.

I find it it incredibly worrying and disturbing that I have to defend my girlfriend living in this country as she wasn't born here. The country is at a dangerous crossroads in my opinion.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Is there a net benefit? Not so sure

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

And that's the economic benefit. Haven't even got onto the social benefit, the qualitative stuff.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is there a net benefit? Not so sure

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

 

[Astute]

Well... there's a net benefit to migration.

Can't really split it out into individual cases, else let's shoot the workshy British while we're at it.

Net benefit on tax paid against benefits paid. But not when the extras are paid for. As in inflated rents because there isn't enough housing.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Yes to a point. But it hasn't caused a lack of housing. It has caused a lack of affordable housing. And affordable housing won't happen until we can build enough houses where the homeless number comes down and not stand still at best.

Starting with a bunch of 2 bed terraces, and avoidng the 'luxury developments' would be a start. But there's less profit on the same land footprint for the former.

Although you could say that's an indicator of how standards of living, and expectations have raised over the years, when people don't want to live in a 2 bed terrace too...

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Net benefit on tax paid against benefits paid. But not when the extras are paid for. As in inflated rents because there isn't enough housing.

Inflated rents are mainly a result of local (as in british governmental, not EU!) policy. i.e. right to buy depleting a social housing stock, relaxing of buy-to-let encouraging speculative investments in property, and a relaxation of rental controls that mean there's less protection for tenants than previously.

And, of course, fostering a belief that you have to own your own home to be a success...

 

[chiefdave]

I find it it incredibly worrying and disturbing that I have to defend my girlfriend living in this country as she wasn't born here. The country is at a dangerous crossroads in my opinion.

That's certainly not something that should be happening. Wonder if all those Brits who have retired to France, Spain and Italy get similar treatment.

 

[Astute]

Exactly.

I find it it incredibly worrying and disturbing that I have to defend my girlfriend living in this country as she wasn't born here. The country is at a dangerous crossroads in my opinion.

It certainly is.

She would be allowed to live here even if she was born out of the EU. She has benefits and skills that we need. But are you surprised that people get upset that they can't get anywhere to live or a decent job then people come here and get housing given to them?

 

[armybike]

Another thing to consider is that as a referendum isn't legally binding even if the vote was Out then the government wouldn't have to more forward and leave the EU.

Clearly it would be political suicide for Cameron, but think it's possible he'd be prepared to fall on the sword.

 

[chiefdave]

But are you surprised that people get upset that they can't get anywhere to live or a decent job then people come here and get housing given to them?