I put it in quotation marks because someone else said it, calm down.
If you think this problem is a direct result of increased immigration, but you don’t want to limit the minorities that you see as responsible, then what’s your solution?
I put it in quotation marks because someone else said it, calm down.Why are you putting something I didn’t say in quotation marks? That is incredibly misleading and disingenuous.
You regularly go down weird rabbit holes. I stated the reason was that authorities considered the demographics made the call, you seemingly disagreed by pointing to examples of hooliganism. Fine.
When that flawed logic was exposed, you imply I want to ‘limit’ minorities and attribute a quote to me that isn’t what I remotely said.
I just shared a video of a local cleric basically saying the usual rules of Islam do not apply to the IDF visiting Birmingham. For example, usury is heavily condemned in Islam yet the cleric said it’s ok to do it against the IDF i.e. Israelis of whom are mostly Jewish people.
A bemusing and veiled antisemitic statement.
Don't think anyone is going to be worried about regular football fans, far more likely the concern is around the very right wing Maccabi Fanatics who have been travelling to away games in Europe in large numbers and causing trouble.
The idea that the SAG in conjunction with the police, who are quite happy to go around rounding up people who protest against genocide in Gaza, have suddenly decided to put the ban in place based on politics, religion or anything other than a risk assessment is far fetched to say the least and an argument could be made to make such claims is anti-semitic in itself people are happily conflating supporters of the club, or Israelis, with all Jews and making statements claiming Jews are banned.
If we had, would it have been Islamaphobic?You’re defending the indefensible here. We didn’t ban Turkish teams from visiting who had literally killed English footballs fans abroad.
I put it in quotation marks because someone else said it, calm down.
If you think this problem is a direct result of increased immigration, but you don’t want to limit the minorities that you see as responsible, then what’s your solution?
IDF would mean those willingly taking part in the genocide no? Nothing against being JewishWhy are you putting something I didn’t say in quotation marks? That is incredibly misleading and disingenuous.
You regularly go down weird rabbit holes. I stated the reason was that authorities considered the demographics made the call, you seemingly disagreed by pointing to examples of hooliganism. Fine.
When that flawed logic was exposed, you imply I want to ‘limit’ minorities and attribute a quote to me that isn’t what I remotely said.
I just shared a video of a local cleric basically saying the usual rules of Islam do not apply to the IDF visiting Birmingham. For example, usury is heavily condemned in Islam yet the cleric said it’s ok to do it against the IDF i.e. Israelis of whom are mostly Jewish people.
A bemusing and veiled antisemitic statement.
So you are quite clearly calling to limit minorities then? Unless of course you’re suggesting native British extremists should also be deported - not sure if that’s an “ordinary thing for countries to do”.It’s a failure of integration, for sure.
Anyone calling for ‘globalise the intifada’, ‘jihad’ or ‘putting zios in the ground’ clearly does not believe in British values and parliamentary democracy.
Anyone who supports extremism should be deported and this is ordinary thing for countries to do.
If we had, would it have been Islamaphobic?
IDF would mean those willingly taking part in the genocide no? Nothing against being Jewish
Crazy talk of course saying they visit Birmingham to watch football. We know what he means. But strictly speaking what he said is not anti semetic is it?
What the hell is he waffling on about there in that video?Funny man. Palestine still play in FIFA sanctioned matches and were in World Cup qualifying earlier in the year.
You’ve got it twisted. The people being literally limited are ordinary Israeli football fans. It’s categorised as a ‘high risk’ match not because of a few hundred (if that) Tel Aviv fans.
The reality is that Birmingham has a large Muslim population, routinely has Pro-Pal demos where ugly chats can be heard. Therefore, it’s plainly obvious that the local authorities are not confident they can guarantee the safety of our visitors.
Of the people arrested on that week for the riots, Tel Aviv fans numbered small %. Does that sound like they caused the ruckus? The Dutch authorities don’t seem to lay the blame on them.
Besides, this is Britain where cultural identity and religion our protected characteristics. So the failure
The reasons given weren’t to do with hooliganism from a v small group of Tel Aviv fans.
Of course, has nothing to do with stuff like the below being spouted.
They probably understand the dynamics of the Arab and Islamic world better than we do.
I’m not sure how happy Ireland will be to take ‘are Tommy’.So you are quite clearly calling to limit minorities then? Unless of course you’re suggesting native British extremists should also be deported - not sure if that’s an “ordinary thing for countries to do”.
I think you’re drawing an artificial distinction in order to simplify what is quite a complex story with a lot of unknowns. To reduce this story down to ‘apolitical football fans vs sectarian Muslim immigrants’ might be a convenient narrative, but I don’t think it fully reflects everything going on behind the scenes here.No.
The Tel Aviv fans haven’t been banned because of the risk of violence with Villa fans. It’s the wider risk of disorder on the streets with ‘counter protestors’ and from Amsterdam, clashes with local residents because of Birmingham’s demographics.
It’s a failure of policing if they feel the need to ban travelling supporters because of hooliganism. The authorities have a grip on the situation.
It would be national disgrace if the authorities could not guarantee the safety of any minority group.
“How dare you say I want to limit minorities - I just want to deport people who don’t share what I deem to be British values”I’m not sure how happy Ireland will be to take ‘are Tommy’.
IDF IS the Israeli military. I don't think it's a byword for Jew though.Israel’s civilian to combatant ratio in the death toll is lower than almost any war in recent history. So unless you consider all war as genocide, I disagree with your opening statement.
The IDF is the Israeli military so it’s a byword for Israeli and Jew. The cleric chose his words carefully enough but the meaning is explicit: that ‘true Islamic’ values are not afforded to ‘enemies of Islam’ i.e. Israel, the Jewish state. It’s clear and obvious incitement.
The example of usury is telling because it is considered ‘haram’ (i.e. a cardinal sin) in Islamic law.
You say that the issue is that Birmingham is made up of 30% Muslims.
I disagree with you, I don't think that is the issue. The local MP is a member of Jeremy Corbyns' 'Independent Alliance' and it feels to me that the MP is stoking up sectarian division for his own ends to make personal political capital out of the situation.
I don't believe that local Muslims are broadly ready to ignite in the manner suggested or threaten other people's safety solely based on their nationality or their religion. The Muslims that I know are not filled with that level of blind hatred and I don't personally believe pandering to any minority within any part of our society that might think in that way is a good idea.
Your just gutted you have nothing to protest at now. Just watch, all the blue hair weirdo types will be straight back on the just stop oil thing now Trump has sorted this out.
Why don’t you freak lot just stop hating everybody, get a job, accept your weird and just have a shag and chill.
IDF IS the Israeli military. I don't think it's a byword for Jew though.
It's the military arm of the Israeli government and it's a military arm that's committed genocide.
There are a lot of Jewish people who are totally against what is happening and who are not at all happy with what Netanyahu has been doing.
I don't think you can just say IDF - Jew.
IDF IS the Israeli military. I don't think it's a byword for Jew though.
It's the military arm of the Israeli government and it's a military arm that's committed genocide.
There are a lot of Jewish people who are totally against what is happening and who are not at all happy with what Netanyahu has been doing.
I don't think you can just say IDF - Jew.
More obfuscation.I think you’re drawing an artificial distinction in order to simplify what is quite a complex story with a lot of unknowns. To reduce this story down to ‘apolitical football fans vs sectarian Muslim immigrants’ might be a convenient narrative, but I don’t think it fully reflects everything going on behind the scenes here.
Yeah. This is what normal countries do.“How dare you say I want to limit minorities - I just want to deport people who don’t share what I deem to be British values”
But the blame Muslims in Birmingham not Israel commuting genocide lol.Sometimes making what for all intents and purposes is a wrong decision in a perfect world is right. No way that the safety of the supporters could be guaranteed in Birmingham, recipe for disaster
If you don’t think the recent actions of some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans combined with the recent political environment have changed the risk factors around this game, then I’m not surprised this decision comes as a shock to you.Why would the SAG specifically designate this game as ‘high risk?’ There is no histoy of Israeli football fans kicking off in England.
The PM has come out and condemned the decision saying the police should be able to guarantee the safety of visiting fans. If he was briefed that the decision was because they cannot control unruly Tel Aviv fans, the narrative would be much different.
The pertinent question is why are these fans not guaranteed safe passage in our second biggest city? There wouldn’t be concerns if Tel Aviv were playing in Oxford.Sometimes making what for all intents and purposes is a wrong decision in a perfect world is right. No way that the safety of the supporters could be guaranteed in Birmingham, recipe for disaster
If you don’t think the recent actions of some Maccabi Tel Aviv fans combined with the recent political environment have changed the risk factors around this game, then I’m not surprised this decision comes as a shock to you.
How do you know what the PM has been briefed on? (I agree with him in this case though)
Believe it or not but it's not just Muslims who are angry with genocide - Snipers on roof, Udine on max alert for Italy-IsraelThe pertinent question is why are these fans not guaranteed safe passage in our second biggest city? There wouldn’t be concerns if Tel Aviv were playing in Oxford.
The multicultural dream is that we become this melting pot with shared common values.
Two ironies here:
- Jenrick just got pilloried by some parts of the media for decrying lack of integration in Handsworth
- Polanski mae a heart warming video on multiculturalism is in Birmingham
The SAG and WMP have recommended against having away fans because they can’t guarantee the safety of a group of football fans who will mostly be Jewish because of the wider demographics of Birmingham.
If the police had intelligence that it could kick off with local Birmingham populations and when you have a local cleric inciting certain things, it’s really not a good look for Britain.
No, I don’t.
The Dutch authorities actually condemned what could be described as ‘Jew hunts’ from the local population. It’s only left wing journos/outlets who seem to place the blame on Tel Aviv fans.
The SAG and WMP have said that the
Of the arrests in Amsterdam last year, a small % were Tel Aviv fans. The majority that were arrested were locals. This narrative that it was Tel Aviv ultras tearing up the city is nonsense. Yes, there was bad behaviour and chanting on their side.
Back to this, we have hosted football fans with much worse reputations than Tel Aviv so it’s v apparent that this isn’t about football hooliganism.
You cryptically put the ‘recent political environment’. Be honest about what you mean here. The concerns over safety of Israeli football fans isn’t because of middle-class Palestine Action protestors you regularly see in Birmingham. Its concerns are with it kicking off with the locals who have cleric who called Tel Aviv footballs fans visiting Birmingham as ‘the IDF’ and that the usual rule of Islam are disapplied - which is incitement.
Not a clue mate, don't really keep a close watch on the behaviour of various teams around the world and, unlike many on here who seem to have been following their every move closely, Maccabi Tel Aviv hadn't registered on my radar at all before they came up on here. Having said that it didn't take much research to find several things of concern, not least that the owners of the club appear to endorse the racism in their fan base.Of all the clubs in Europe, do you think Tel Aviv have the worst hooligans?
You’re defending the indefensible here. We didn’t ban Turkish teams from visiting who had literally killed English footballs fans abroad.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
Believe it or not but it's not just Muslims who are angry with genocide - Snipers on roof, Udine on max alert for Italy-Israel
Israel’s civilian to combatant ratio in the death toll is lower than almost any war in recent history.
Get a grip.October 7th was an attack with genocidal intent so anyone at these demos is implicitly supporting genocide themselves.
It's hardly a surprise there are more people angry at genocide than interested in attending a football match, FFS.This is more telling about Pro-Pal demos than Israeli football fans.
There’s more Italians worried about protesting the Israeli football team than actually going to the match…
October 7th was an attack with genocidal intent so anyone at these demos is implicitly supporting genocide themselves. One things I’ve seen in London a Birmingham is that these Pro-Pal demonstrators like to wear merchandise/necklaces that depicts the entire area of ‘Israel’ as Palestine. These aren’t people who want a two-state solution, particularly the people who shout for ‘jihad’ or ‘global intifada’ and a lot of people on this thread just ignore that or don’t don’t actually care.
This is absolutely mental.October 7th was an attack with genocidal intent so anyone at these demos is implicitly supporting genocide themselves.
Do you think that what Israel has done qualifies as attempted genocide, ethnic cleansing, or both (or neither)?This is more telling about Pro-Pal demos than Israeli football fans.
There’s more Italians worried about protesting the Israeli football team than actually going to the match…
October 7th was an attack with genocidal intent so anyone at these demos is implicitly supporting genocide themselves. One things I’ve seen in London a Birmingham is that these Pro-Pal demonstrators like to wear merchandise/necklaces that depicts the entire area of ‘Israel’ as Palestine. These aren’t people who want a two-state solution, particularly the people who shout for ‘jihad’ or ‘global intifada’ and a lot of people on this thread just ignore that or don’t don’t actually care.
“Bad behaviour and chanting” is certainly one way to describe it. But I’m not interested in trying to maintain that one ‘side’ is worse than the other here - clearly you are.Of the arrests in Amsterdam last year, a small % were Tel Aviv fans. The majority that were arrested were locals. This narrative that it was Tel Aviv ultras tearing up the city is nonsense. Yes, there was bad behaviour and chanting on their side.
Not a clue mate, don't really keep a close watch on the behaviour of various teams around the world and, unlike many on here who seem to have been following their every move closely, Maccabi Tel Aviv hadn't registered on my radar at all before they came up on here. Having said that it didn't take much research to find several things of concern, not least that the owners of the club appear to endorse the racism in their fan base.
But nobody is claiming they are the worst hooligans in Europe are they? As has been pointed out on this thread they aren't the first, and no doubt won't be the last, club to have restrictions but on their supporters. They aren't even the first club to have visiting supporters banned this season, where's the hundreds of outraged posts about Eintracht fans being banned from Napoli?
The point I was making is I mind it highly unlikely that the SAG and WMP, who have been happily rounding up anti-genocide protesters, have suddenly decided that all jews should be banned from Villa Park. I think its far more likely, as we have experienced ourselves, that a risk assessment has been done and a decision made on that basis.
Do find it slightly odd that after people are making claims of anti-semitism being behind this decision while conflating all jews, Israel, the IDF and ultras. The favoured definition of anti-semitism that people have been pushed to be adopted states that is anti-semitic but increasing that seems to be getting ignored.
If you look at just that though the Tel Aviv fans were chanting death to all Arabs.“Bad behaviour and chanting” is certainly one way to describe it. But I’m not interested in trying to maintain that one ‘side’ is worse than the other here - clearly you are.
Twitter rabbit holes have a lot to answer for.I like @Mucca Mad Boys as a posterm I agree on nearly everything with you ccfc wise
But your clearly a very angry/frightened man and it's effecting your views
Where are you finding the meeting minutes, risk assessment and reports from these meetings publicly available, I've got nothing coming up in searches. Our SAG wouldn't even give any details of the fucking stupid fence or why we needed multiple blocks empty between home and away fans so it seems a bit odd that all the intelligence on something as sensitive as this has been released.The SAG and WMP have said
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