Hope For Sky Blues Academy (1 Viewer)

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Just posted on Trust website - looks like Steve and his crew have been busy!

Hope For Sky Blues Academy

The importance of the academy to CCFC cannot be overemphasised – it has produced a large number of very talented and successful players for the club over the years, many of whom have graced the Sky Blue shirt with distinction and some who have moved on to pastures new thus providing vital revenue for the club.

Recent developments at the Alan Edward Higgs centre, where the academy is based, have cast doubt over the future of this important component of the Coventry City infrastructure. The club have been based at the centre for a decade but in the past couple of years their relationship with the centre owners and management has been fractious and even broken when the academy left, albeit temporarily, their traditional base. On their return they did so on a finite contact that expires in July 2017 and have block booked the facilities they require on a rolling 3 month basis.

With the new centre owners stated plans to convert the vital indoor pitch into a swimming pool followed by the additional blow that Wasps were to build a training facility at the Higgs City fans were thrown into a furore. The new Wasps structure would be constructed on the site of the current outdoor pitch and Wasps would also take possession of several of the outdoor pitches.

All this news has disconcerted Sky Blues fans almost universally and the Trust immediately called upon all parties involved to put past differences aside and work together to ensure the continuation of a Sky Blue Academy.

To this end the Trust had several meetings and discussions with CSF, Wasps and CCFC to get their perspective on events and get their assurance that they were willing to enter into meaningful discussions with each other. All three parties held their own views on what had gone on previously but all indicated that they would be willing to work with the others to try and ensure a positive outcome. The Trust has even offered to host and broker the talks in necessary.

CCFC are contacting the FA to discuss exactly what they need to retain the Academy as a Category 2 status or at worst Category 3. Once this has been established there will be a framework for all parties to work around. It will mean some changes and some compromise but the over-riding aim must be the continuation of an Academy at Coventry City.

Once again this proves that on going constructive dialogue is the answer. We believe that and as long as all parties are open and willing to work together then things can be achieved. Let us hope that this isn’t all just so much hot air, that people stop using the Academy as a political football and that everyone is genuine in their desire to ensure there is an Academy for CCFC now and in the future.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
"CCFC are contacting the FA to discuss exactly what they need to retain the Academy as a Category 2 status or at worst Category 3. Once this has been established there will be a framework for all parties to work around. It will mean some changes and some compromise but the over-riding aim must be thecontinuation of an Academy at Coventry City."

The first part of the jigsaw has been placed on the table. :)
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
CCFC are contacting the FA to discuss exactly what they need to retain the Academy as a Category 2 status or at worst Category 3. Once this has been established there will be a framework for all parties to work around. It will mean some changes and some compromise but the over-riding aim must be the continuation of an Academy at Coventry City.

Who will have to make these compromises and changes? Sounds like it will be us, given we're not exploring options for a cat 3 academy. If we cannot retain cat 2, then its pretty pointless.


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italiahorse

Well-Known Member
FFS shouldn't the club have alrready contacted the FA to determine what is required, Anderson looks a clown if he is making a big song and dance about loosing the academy but isn't clear on what WASPS propose to do and how that actually impacts on the academy - amateurish

This is the first thing CA should have done as you say. But he needs to do this to prove that CCFC really want to fight for the academy.
Once (if) he comes back to the table it then moves on to the others to see 'if' they want to help as they say.
 

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't they already know the difference between cat. 2 and 3 surely, perhaps the Trust could find out from the FA too, just to make sure everyone will be singing from the same hymn sheet.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Who will have to make these compromises and changes? Sounds like it will be us, given we're not exploring options for a cat 3 academy. If we cannot retain cat 2, then its pretty pointless.
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It will be us.
Sounds like we will need to have extra pitches off site.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't they already know the difference between cat. 2 and 3 surely, perhaps the Trust could find out from the FA too, just to make sure everyone will be singing from the same hymn sheet.
It's well documented but there may need to be a bit of flexibility applied.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
I believe that its not so much what is needed for a Cat 2 or 3 etc as anyone can download this from the website but its more just how can we meet the various elements with what is or could be available, how flexible the FA could be with the interpretation of the regs (lets face it we all know about football authorities powers of discretion) etc. From my reading of it it does appear that there is some hope as long as all are willing to act like adults and negotiate properly. As to who will need to compromise - quite frankly I don't care - this isn't a dick waving exercise its about saving our academy - a far more important objective than any one party's sense of pride or feelings.
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
I believe that its not so much what is needed for a Cat 2 or 3 etc as anyone can download this from the website but its more just how can we meet the various elements with what is or could be available, how flexible the FA could be with the interpretation of the regs (lets face it we all know about football authorities powers of discretion) etc. From my reading of it it does appear that there is some hope as long as all are willing to act like adults and negotiate properly. As to who will need to compromise - quite frankly I don't care - this isn't a dick waving exercise its about saving our academy - a far more important objective than any one party's sense of pride or feelings.
Firstly, well done to the Trust in getting this far it looks like they are making positive inroads to getting a result. Our hand is unfortunately weak in this deal so it is clear that the compromise will come from us and relying on the 'good will' of Wasps to share the new facility etc.

It has been proven that Football and Rugby can co-exist elsewhere and all parties need to be open to this particularly SISU given their track record. I visit South Wales for work regularly and stay at the Vale, next door is the training facility for Cardiff City and Blues. The setup looks superb, likewise Swansea.

All parties need to grow up but the biggest fear is that the desired outcomes maybe very different. Lets hope common sense prevails.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
It will be us.
Sounds like we will need to have extra pitches off site.
Its not really compromising, if only one side compromises. Its all upto the fa, I'd be surprised if they agree, given they're looking to reduce the number of cat 2 academies.

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Covstu

Well-Known Member
Its not really compromising, if only one side compromises. Its all upto the fa, I'd be surprised if they agree, given they're looking to reduce the number of cat 2 academies.

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I guess it might be if the alternative is to lose everything???
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Its not really compromising, if only one side compromises. Its all upto the fa, I'd be surprised if they agree, given they're looking to reduce the number of cat 2 academies.

Tend to agree with you stupot07.....

However....
I guess it might be if the alternative is to lose everything???

As its Friday afternoon, I'm going with this.

Happy Friday folks.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
If there is going to be compromise on all sides then this is good news potentially.

Forgive my cynicism though when I say that Wasps have 'said' about negotiation and compromise in relation to CCFC but their actions indicate quite the opposite.... So far at least.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Just posted on Trust website - looks like Steve and his crew have been busy!

Hope For Sky Blues Academy

The importance of the academy to CCFC cannot be overemphasised – it has produced a large number of very talented and successful players for the club over the years, many of whom have graced the Sky Blue shirt with distinction and some who have moved on to pastures new thus providing vital revenue for the club.

Recent developments at the Alan Edward Higgs centre, where the academy is based, have cast doubt over the future of this important component of the Coventry City infrastructure. The club have been based at the centre for a decade but in the past couple of years their relationship with the centre owners and management has been fractious and even broken when the academy left, albeit temporarily, their traditional base. On their return they did so on a finite contact that expires in July 2017 and have block booked the facilities they require on a rolling 3 month basis.

With the new centre owners stated plans to convert the vital indoor pitch into a swimming pool followed by the additional blow that Wasps were to build a training facility at the Higgs City fans were thrown into a furore. The new Wasps structure would be constructed on the site of the current outdoor pitch and Wasps would also take possession of several of the outdoor pitches.

All this news has disconcerted Sky Blues fans almost universally and the Trust immediately called upon all parties involved to put past differences aside and work together to ensure the continuation of a Sky Blue Academy.

To this end the Trust had several meetings and discussions with CSF, Wasps and CCFC to get their perspective on events and get their assurance that they were willing to enter into meaningful discussions with each other. All three parties held their own views on what had gone on previously but all indicated that they would be willing to work with the others to try and ensure a positive outcome. The Trust has even offered to host and broker the talks in necessary.

CCFC are contacting the FA to discuss exactly what they need to retain the Academy as a Category 2 status or at worst Category 3. Once this has been established there will be a framework for all parties to work around. It will mean some changes and some compromise but the over-riding aim must be the continuation of an Academy at Coventry City.

Once again this proves that on going constructive dialogue is the answer. We believe that and as long as all parties are open and willing to work together then things can be achieved. Let us hope that this isn’t all just so much hot air, that people stop using the Academy as a political football and that everyone is genuine in their desire to ensure there is an Academy for CCFC now and in the future.
No, no, no, no, no!!!

There should be no talks! People shouldn't talk of peace talks, it's all wrong, wrong, wrong and we need someone to hate so badly, they should never do or ever say anything right!

Oh..... and well done, SBT!! :)
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Excuse me if I hold off on the party streamers while this sentence still needs to be said:

We believe that and as long as all parties areopen and willing to work together then things can be achieved.

So more words and no action, just where we've been for years then.

Good luck to the Trust guys, but I'll wait for something a bit more concrete.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Agree, but talking is so much better than not talking. You have to start somewhere.
You do, but if wasps and CSF can't offer what we need for a cat 2 academy, then its all pointless anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if from wasps and CSF this isnt all for the camera's so to speak "smile and wave boys, smile and wave"


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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
how flexible the FA could be with the interpretation of the regs
Thats a huge concern for me. To be going to the FA asking them to be flexible at a time when they are looking to reduce the number of academies is not the best timing to say the least.

Would be good if, while CCFC are awaiting their response from the FA, the trust could also obtain details from CSF and Wasps regarding exactly which facilities will be available to the academy and on what basis.

Important to keep driving this forward, the end of the current lease might seem a while off but we don't want to reach that point and still be waiting for answers.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
You do, but if wasps and CSF can't offer what we need for a cat 2 academy, then its all pointless anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if from wasps and CSF this isnt all for the camera's so to speak "smile and wave boys, smile and wave"


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But at least we'll know for sure it's pointless rather than assumptions of it being pointless from an entrenched, not talking to anyone standpoint.

We really have nothing to lose as a club by engaging with the other parties. It might even flush out some truths and that really would be a novelty for a CCFC fan.

Time to unite behind the trust on this.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
No Stu - if Wasps and CSF cannot offer what we need then we have to look elsewhere for those bits - ie if there is not enough outdoor pitches then we have to look to Ryton, to Warwick Uni, to the bloody Memorial Park if necessary. We don't just give up and cry and bleat that the nasty boys won't give us everything we want and therefore we are shutting the academy and its everyone elses fault. We do everything possible to keep it going however difficult others make it.The over riding matter is ensuring we have an academy - its not up to Wasps and CSF to provide us with one - if we can work with them to get all of it then great but if we can get say 80% of it at the Higgs and have to do some juggling around with other venues to get the other 20% then so be it. At this moment in time this isn't about who is ganging up on CCFC or who is to blame or who said what to who its about saving the academy and by implication the future of our club.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Thats a huge concern for me. To be going to the FA asking them to be flexible at a time when they are looking to reduce the number of academies is not the best timing to say the least.

Would be good if, while CCFC are awaiting their response from the FA, the trust could also obtain details from CSF and Wasps regarding exactly which facilities will be available to the academy and on what basis.

Important to keep driving this forward, the end of the current lease might seem a while off but we don't want to reach that point and still be waiting for answers.

I think its more asking for clarification on how flexible certain aspects of CAT2 status is rather than asking for some extra flexibility.

That's how I read it anyway. Besides, what's the alternative? Just throw the towel in and lose the CAT2 status without a whimper?

I'll say it again. Time to unite behind the trust on this. Let's find out what is possible instead of assuming nothing is possible. I'm not one for playing the victim myself.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
On their return they did so on a finite contact that expires in July 2017 and have block booked the facilities they require on a rolling 3 month basis.

This caught my eye, does this mean CCFC could give Higgs 3 months notice and be gone? I thought there was at least a 1 year notice period?
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Besides, what's the alternative? Just throw the towel in and lose the CAT2 status without a whimper?
Not suggesting that at all. Just concerned that the timing is poor to be asking the FA to be flexible as if they want less academies they will be looking for reasons to remove status and are therefore less likely to be flexible. Nothing can be done about that though.
I'll say it again. Time to unite behind the trust on this. Let's find out what is possible instead of assuming nothing is possible. I'm not one for playing the victim myself.
Exactly, that is why I would like to know from CSF and Wasps exactly what is possible. That way everyone has their cards on the table. Once CCFC get a reply from the FA they will know exactly what they need so lets also make sure we know what is on offer.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Based on the Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) which is available for all to read.
The issues are likely to be around primacy and if a single site is required.

Most academies have some flexibility in terms of primacy as many either don't own the facilities or make them available for others use. The EPPP actually states the academy needs exclusive use but that has never been the case at Higgs. What has happened in the past is CCFC have notified in advance of the hours they require. The offer from Wasps was that the academy could use the facilities for limited hours when not required by Wasps. Would that be acceptable to the FA?

The EPPP doesn't specifically state a single site is needed however it does read as if referring to a single academy site with multiple development sites. Clarification would be need so that if, for example, some of the outdoor pitches are away from Higgs we know the FA will accept that.
 

Leamington Pete

Well-Known Member
The club will be well aware of what facilities are required to maintain Cat 2 status and any compromise with the FA is unlikely. Cat 3 clubs who missed out on 2 would not be pleased. I'm not sure about the FA "wanting fewer academies", I think they hope all clubs will improve facilities and move up the scale, making a drop to Cat 3 for us a bit embarrassing.

I reckon the answer for us lies at Warwick University, a venue used by us last time we fell out With the AHC and still regularly used by the FA and Premier League for inter Academy events. The place is growing all the time and a decent indoor 3 or 4G (the big stumbling block for Cat 2 status) can't be far off. My youngest son plays academy football and we've visited many clubs who share great facilities with big universities.
 

skyblueinBaku

Well-Known Member

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
The issues are likely to be around primacy and if a single site is required.

Most academies have some flexibility in terms of primacy as many either don't own the facilities or make them available for others use. The EPPP actually states the academy needs exclusive use but that has never been the case at Higgs. What has happened in the past is CCFC have notified in advance of the hours they require. The offer from Wasps was that the academy could use the facilities for limited hours when not required by Wasps. Would that be acceptable to the FA?

The EPPP doesn't specifically state a single site is needed however it does read as if referring to a single academy site with multiple development sites. Clarification would be need so that if, for example, some of the outdoor pitches are away from Higgs we know the FA will accept that.

I think someone addressed the single location question when the situation first arose and IIRC multiple locations wasn't an issue, primacy was.
 

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Salami politics...

I'd believe we still need Cat 2. Can we all stop being asses and sort this?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Some absolute tools on the CT site. The JR has nothing to do with the academy.



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stupot07

Well-Known Member
But at least we'll know for sure it's pointless rather than assumptions of it being pointless from an entrenched, not talking to anyone standpoint.

We really have nothing to lose as a club by engaging with the other parties. It might even flush out some truths and that really would be a novelty for a CCFC fan.

Time to unite behind the trust on this.
I'm happy to back the trust on this, but I still think the Trust should be more hardlined against WASPS and CSF and Higgs for putting us in this position in the first place.

I can just see this as another PR exercise of Wasps and CSF showing willing, then blaming the club if it can't work.

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