Has anyone got any updates from the SBT meeting tonight? (2 Viewers)

[oldfiver]

Really? Richardson only came on board to Wasps in 2013... interesting well known fact there.

Where do I say Richardson?

 

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[oldfiver]

"...it is a well known fact WASPS were talking to ACL ( therefore CCC & Higgs ) in 2011"

Oh, really? In 2011, Wasps were fully committed to the Booker Sports Village project. They'd spent a lot of money on it, and had received the backing of Wycombe District Council.

The council then had a change of leadership, and did a U-turn, late in 2011. The next plan involved the club being bought by the owner of Barnet FC. That deal fell through at the 11th hour, in April 2012.

In view of those established facts, suggestions that 'it's a well-known fact' that talks about the Ricoh were being held in 2011 are complete and utter nonsense.[/Q

 

[oldfiver]

"...it is a well known fact WASPS were talking to ACL ( therefore CCC & Higgs ) in 2011"

Oh, really? In 2011, Wasps were fully committed to the Booker Sports Village project. They'd spent a lot of money on it, and had received the backing of Wycombe District Council.

The council then had a change of leadership, and did a U-turn, late in 2011. The next plan involved the club being bought by the owner of Barnet FC. That deal fell through at the 11th hour, in April 2012.

In view of those established facts, suggestions that 'it's a well-known fact' that talks about the Ricoh were being held in 2011 are complete and utter nonsense.[/Q

Perhaps I move in more informed circles!

 

[Moff]

Richardson is the primary shareholder in MGI, so if he doesn't own Wasps directly, he owns it through MGI anyway.

Wasps will probably want a pitch with shorter grass to allow for a better running game, we've got some of the quickest players in the premiership and will want to be using them.

And you are still mid table mediocrity, that must hurt.
Take a tip if you want to watch Championship Winning Rugby, try Franklin's Gardens instead.

 

[Nick]

This place is getting swarmed! No PR Machine though

 

[Vigornian]

"Perhaps I move in more informed circles!"

Like the Coventry & District Home for the Bewildered? Or the Warwickshire branch of The Friends of Joan of Arc?

 

[torchomatic]

We were told by Ann that ACL were doing well, so why couldn't they wait until they COULD negotiate with SISU or even until SISU had left? After all their decision means that a team from 85 miles away now has control of the Ricoh for 250 years. Surely, one or even five years of patience would ultimately have benefited OUR team. The city's team.

I think there is the problem, how long could ccc wait? .

 

[skybluetony176]

We were told by Ann that ACL were doing well, so why couldn't they wait until they COULD negotiate with SISU or even until SISU had left? After all their decision means that a team from 85 miles away now has control of the Ricoh for 250 years. Surely, one or even five years of patience would ultimately have benefited OUR team. The city's team.

So what if SISI are serious about building the stadium of Joy and CCC turned Wasps down flat not believing that SISU will build and in the hope that either SISU will seriously come to the table or new owners will do a deal, as the latter doesn't happen the Ricoh becomes the white elephant some on here have been saying all along it already apparently is and becomes deserted and loss making and then it comes to light that CCC had a buyer but they misjudged what SISU were actually going to do and turned it down? What do you think the Coventry Tax payer would have to say about that?

SISU over played their hand and got burnt, its as simple as that. CCC saw a confirmed route out of this mess and took it. Thats called cause and effect.

 

[olderskyblue]

"the club would only return to the Ricoh if negotiations over arena ownership were re-opened by the council" looks like an invitation to me, as well...

Sorry NW, looks nothing like an invitation to me. AL's deadline had passed without any approach from SISU. It's purely posturing. Maybe, just maybe, they could have picked up the phone earlier, said they were dropping the unencumbered aspect, but wanted a 250 year lease.... Who knows, that may have worked....

 

[rondog1973]

We were told by Ann that ACL were doing well, so why couldn't they wait until they COULD negotiate with SISU or even until SISU had left? After all their decision means that a team from 85 miles away now has control of the Ricoh for 250 years. Surely, one or even five years of patience would ultimately have benefited OUR team. The city's team.

I think what it is Torch, is that the council simply did not believe that Sisu would spend the next 2-4 years not trying to distress them further. They were still appealing the JR decision after all, and this allied to a third of the councils budget being slashed due to Tory austerity cuts dictated it was a risk they were not prepared to take.

 

[albatross]

What absolute tosh. Other than the loan (which they will earn interest on) no tax payers money was used to fund ACL. In fact ACL told the JR that ACL was flourishing without the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Point taken and bad wording from my side where i was not clear in my point, I was referring to the Legal costs that were building for the JR and beyond. Those costs were reported close to £500K and only had the prospect of Going up.

Because of funding from central Govt , There will be 1,000 job cuts, no lollypop ladies for the children to go to school etc.. . That is where I was indicating CCC should be focussing. ALC was not filling that hole with any dividend. Interest payment on the mortgage may have offset it a little but I could not defend a council who put public money into this when other basic services were being starved of money.

 

[rupert_bear]

Yes I have seen top class Rugby Union at Twickenham and elsewhere. The pitch looks nice and green and if you get up close about 6 inches in length. You couldn't play football on that. Of course you can play Rugby Union on a good surface but it's not that critical like it is for football.

Then you fucking cut it, with under soil heating and modern working practices grass can be made to grow easily 6 inches overnight

 

[ajsccfc]

Grass steroids?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Point taken and bad wording from my side where i was not clear in my point, I was referring to the Legal costs that were building for the JR and beyond. Those costs were reported close to £500K and only had the prospect of Going up.

Because of funding from central Govt , There will be 1,000 job cuts, no lollypop ladies for the children to go to school etc.. . That is where I was indicating CCC should be focussing. ALC was not filling that hole with any dividend. Interest payment on the mortgage may have offset it a little but I could not defend a council who put public money into this when other basic services were being starved of money.

It was always about needing a short term injection of cash-had they just been honest about that there'd be less of a problem.

 

[Astute]

We were told by Ann that ACL were doing well, so why couldn't they wait until they COULD negotiate with SISU or even until SISU had left? After all their decision means that a team from 85 miles away now has control of the Ricoh for 250 years. Surely, one or even five years of patience would ultimately have benefited OUR team. The city's team.

So what if SISI are serious about building the stadium of Joy and CCC turned Wasps down flat not believing that SISU will build and in the hope that either SISU will seriously come to the table or new owners will do a deal, as the latter doesn't happen the Ricoh becomes the white elephant some on here have been saying all along it already apparently is and becomes deserted and loss making and then it comes to light that CCC had a buyer but they misjudged what SISU were actually going to do and turned it down? What do you think the Coventry Tax payer would have to say about that?

SISU over played their hand and got burnt, its as simple as that. CCC saw a confirmed route out of this mess and took it. Thats called cause and effect.

Sorry NW, looks nothing like an invitation to me. AL's deadline had passed without any approach from SISU. It's purely posturing. Maybe, just maybe, they could have picked up the phone earlier, said they were dropping the unencumbered aspect, but wanted a 250 year lease.... Who knows, that may have worked....

I think what it is Torch, is that the council simply did not believe that Sisu would spend the next 2-4 years not trying to distress them further. They were still appealing the JR decision after all, and this allied to a third of the councils budget being slashed due to Tory austerity cuts dictated it was a risk they were not prepared to take.

Point taken and bad wording from my side where i was not clear in my point, I was referring to the Legal costs that were building for the JR and beyond. Those costs were reported close to £500K and only had the prospect of Going up.

Because of funding from central Govt , There will be 1,000 job cuts, no lollypop ladies for the children to go to school etc.. . That is where I was indicating CCC should be focussing. ALC was not filling that hole with any dividend. Interest payment on the mortgage may have offset it a little but I could not defend a council who put public money into this when other basic services were being starved of money.

The problem is everyone is right. CCC should have held on until SISU either stopped all the litigation or were ready to negotiate. But what was the risk of being left with the 'white elephant' that some were going on about as well as the time and money wasted?

Both sides are at fault here. SISU's plan worked on CCC getting rid of the arena on the cheap. But they failed to consider that someone else might be interested. And it is our football club and ourselves who are left to suffer. This is why I am pissed off with CCC for letting the arena go to Wasps but at the same time understand why it was done.

 

[Vigornian]

'Yes I have seen top class Rugby Union at Twickenham and elsewhere. The pitch looks nice and green and if you get up close about 6 inches in length. You couldn't play football on that. Of course you can play Rugby Union on a good surface but it's not that critical like it is for football.'

Complete nonsense! A new Desso pitch was installed, complete with undersoil heating, in the summer of 2012. It cost £2 million, and the grass is cut very short. Easily short enough to play football. If it looked like six inches to you, large quantities of alcohol must have been involved. Either that, or you need to make an urgent appointment with Specsavers.

 

[Nick]

The problem is everyone is right. CCC should have held on until SISU either stopped all the litigation or were ready to negotiate. But what was the risk of being left with the 'white elephant' that some were going on about as well as the time and money wasted?

Both sides are at fault here. SISU's plan worked on CCC getting rid of the arena on the cheap. But they failed to consider that someone else might be interested. And it is our football club and ourselves who are left to suffer. This is why I am pissed off with CCC for letting the arena go to Wasps but at the same time understand why it was done.

Your lad off school today??

 

[Norman Binns]

Then you fucking cut it, with under soil heating and modern working practices grass can be made to grow easily 6 inches overnight

Why are you stating the bleeding obvious? You are totally missing the point being made. To re-iterate once again to those that don't get it. Rugby Union is not reliant on a meticulous playing surface like football is. That is why a good playing surface at the Ricoh would benefit the football club more than it would Wasps. It's not that difficult to understand is it?

 

[oldfiver]

"Perhaps I move in more informed circles!"

Like the Coventry & District Home for the Bewildered? Or the Warwickshire branch of The Friends of Joan of Arc?

When I saw you were a member of each I declined to join them

As you do not know me do not draw conclusions about me

 

[Raggs]

Alright then, so who else is it a well known fact to? Since right now it's not looking so well known.

My dad always comes out with the precursor "It's a well known fact" normally followed by bigotry, conspiracy or plain old idiocy.

 

[Neutral Fan]

No, we need Neutral Fan to clarify. Only he's got his daily mention of MGI in the bag so he wont be back until tomorrow

Well, in basic terms the set-up is like this : Richardson isn't a self employed sole trader. He has a majority shareholding in Moonshine. Moonshine are owners of Ricoh and Wasps. The holding/parent company of Moonshine is MGI Fiduciary Services (Malta). Their website mentions diverse businesses including Casinos etc so the attraction of Ricoh is obvious.

My instinct would be to be suspicious of companies like Moonshine if - as reported - they said ''this is not a franchise''. Sort of BS one would associate with SISU.

 

[Raggs]

Posted this before.

http://robsbl0g.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/wasps-ricoh-stadium-or-die.html?m=1

With regard to the financial set up of Wasps we simply do not know any or hardly any of the details. What we do know is Wasps RFC are the trading company, have bought the leasehold, most likely pay rent to CCC on the freehold, own 50% or 100% of ACL the operating company. Wasps are 100% owned by Canmango Ltd a holding Company registered in London, largest shareholder David Thorne. Canmango Ltd are 100% owned by Moonstone Ltd who shares are 100% owned by MGI Fiduciary Services in which Derek Richardson is the primary shareholder. Both Moonstone Ltd and MGI are Malta registered companies, so quite difficult to establish details.The funding for the purchase will have come down from these Companies and will be presented as loans in the Wasps accounts.

Richardson is primary shareholder of MGI.

 

[dongonzalos]

What the hell kind of shitty comment is that? Jealousy of landlords? What planet are you on? A planet where all people with property are fine upstanding citizens who are simp winning at capitalism while providing an excellent service for the poor ungrateful underclass who should be happy with the overpricing because, well that's just the market. And if your sick, disabled, work three jobs or lack the life skills in order to maintain a home, well that just makes you jealous of the hand that feeds you (at market value).

The feeling I get when I go to the Ricoh is that, in its emptiness for the last year, ACL have let it go. CCFC have been powerless to do anything about that and from the sounds of things, that is only set to continue.

Nope just a planet where some people rent and despise their landlords as they see them as a cause of the ruse in house prices and the reason they can't buy themselves.

Others prefer to rent.

Some rent and turned the house into a home.

Others rent and do nothing to the house as it is not theirs.

We at the moment rent but the house is not made to feel like home. We also seem jealous of our landlords as they saw through what we couldn't

 

[singers_pore]

Anne Lucas said no contact before July 2014 so clearly Eastwood is a liar isn't he Don?

No, she said that she became involved in July but that other council officers were talking to Wasps in the months prior to July.

Funny how you and Nick just make stuff up to paint Anne Lucas to be a liar but you never mention the far more damaging lies from SISU and their management team.

 

[Grendel]

No, she said that she became involved in July but that other council officers were talking to Wasps in the months prior to July.

Funny how you and Nick just make stuff up to paint Anne Lucas to be a liar but you never mention the far more damaging lies from SISU and their management team.

She has never said that - stop lying.

 

[singers_pore]

She has never said that - stop lying.

You are the liar, asshole.

 

[Grendel]

You are the liar, asshole.

Nope when Lucas referred to ACL she often referred to it as her responsibility and she personally negotiated with Sepella. Its inconceivable she was not aware of negotiations with another party and did not have involvement.

As I say stop making tripe up to support your argument.

 

[ajsccfc]

Aw hell naw!

 

[James Smith]

Playing with words - SHE may have only met WASPS in July for the first time but it is a well known fact WASPS were talking to ACL ( therefore CCC & Higgs ) in 2011

To be seriously pedantic (for which I apologise) I've not seen any evidence that they were talking to each other. The only things I've seen have been report(s) in the telegraph http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/red-button-ricoh-arena-chairman-5431948 that getting another sports team (with Wasps as the primary target, Saints as an occasional user) was a potential plan b. Now I've no doubt that ACL may have looked at this as a possibility but it doesn't say that they actually had discussions. It would be interesting to know if they ever did and if Simon G could find out that would be good. Now that would have been with Wasps as tenants, this isn't as they now own ACL. Only the two faced council could increase the length of the lease and it would therefore make sense (although this is guesswork) that Wasps talked directly to the council not ACL.The fact that the council were prepared to talk to Wasps when they'd made disapproving comments about our self imposed exile to Nothampton is another matter......

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

So wasps looked at the Ricoh in December 2013.
Did SISU get given a deadline of Jan 14 to put in decent offer for ACL. Otherwise the council would be forced to consider alternatives options.
SISU let the deadline go and said we are building a new stadium, freehold or nothing?

Sadly everyone here is overlooking this. Bashing Wasps is not achieving anything.

They now own the Stadium whilst our owners were too busy concentrating on a court case hoping to smash and grab the stadium for pittance.

The are many here who are targeting the wrong people and in my opinion the attention should really be on our owners with regards to what is happening on the new stadium front.

 

[Nick]

No, she said that she became involved in July but that other council officers were talking to Wasps in the months prior to July.

Funny how you and Nick just make stuff up to paint Anne Lucas to be a liar but you never mention the far more damaging lies from SISU and their management team.

What have I made up?

Interesting that Ann Lucas said today on the radio that Wasps made contact for the first time in July.

From the CET. It would be the CET making things up then wouldn't it? As well as the other people who heard it said on the radio...

 

[Sinner from Pinner]

Die hard Wasps fan here, but hopefully by now some of you may have seen me post a couple of times trying to smooth the water.

Firstly, the pitch; we have shared football grounds for nearly 20 years, Loftus Rd then Adams Park, if there are "rugby" pitches out there that are ploughed fields we haven't done well on them. By all accounts the surface at the Ricoh ain't great, can't we try and improve it for the benefit of both teams?

Secondly, Franchise; We (all sports fans in the UK) love to sneer at the US Franchises. Fact is the word franchise in the US has come to mean a Professional Sports Team. In English English however a franchise occurs when a company grants someone else the right to use it's brand in a particular area, and take advantage of the parent's "corporate" services. So Wasps is a franchise if you talk American, or if you don't we've just moved.

Lastly (and I might contribute to the conspiracy theories here, but isn't that the point of forums) Derek Richardson; He may be synonymous with Wasps now, but he wasn't until the end of the 2012/13 season he could have been talking to CCC/ACL way before then, but Wasps weren't we were just trying to stay alive.

 

[torchomatic]

"Moved" is franchising. Franchising is moving. Dress it up however you want. It was wrong when SISU did it and it's doubly wrong for Wasps as it's permanent.

 

[Sinner from Pinner]

Franchise, schmanchise

Moved is franchising. Franchising is moving. Dress it up however you want. It was wrong when SISU did it and it's doubly wrong for Wasps as it's permanent.

I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.

It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.

 

[torchomatic]

That's not, or should I say wasn't, the city of Coventry's problem. Maybe we should move down to Wycombe?

Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.