General Election 2019 thread (6 Viewers)

[Astute]

agree with Clint and Tony, Farage is being shown up for what he is...an opportunist.

I appreciate that his ideal Brexit might be a ‘clean break’ (although not sure he’s voiced this until recent months !) but hes not accepting that there is no majority for this in the country (or parliament - currently or probably in future). He’s also potentially putting Brexit at risk by fielding candidates across the country. Be interesting to see if he/Brexit party retain this stance

If I was him/them I’d be focussing all the attention (and cash) on a smaller number of winnable seats, almost forcing Tories to step down efforts in those constituencies and then try influence WAB or potential future trade deal from parliament.

Of course he is opportunistic. He has made a career out of being a twat. It is only politics that you can make a decent living out of being an absolute idiot.

 

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[Grendel]

They haven't, but you can sign up to be the first to know here:

Labour's 2019 Manifesto | Have your say

I’ve just purchased some toilet roll so i wil pass

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I'll sign up today, just hope I don't get bombarded with ads and calls

You might They still ring me every so often to ask why I didn't renew my membership back in... 2017 I think?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I’ve just purchased some toilet roll so i wil pass

You use electronic toilet roll?!? They are strange in Kenilworth.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So I've had a really hard look into my political views and come up with that I do have certain ignorances regarding both Labour and Lib Dems.
I always set out plans for the working week ahead, and this week, as I am on top of everything regarding work, I will have plenty of time to really research in detail both labour and Lib Dems policies, I know labour has already released their manifesto, so in the lax periods at work this week I will go through everything both parties plan.
Yes I do dislike JC, DA and JMcDonnel , but I really want to know for myself if these things I dislike about them have any truth/backing to them.
I'll spend the next seven days researching and I'll come back and tell you if my views have changed. No doubt some will. My family have voted labour all their lives, much out of habit than anything else, and I'm the first one not to be, so I'm really interested to find out if my views change on things.
What I really hate is the division, and yes I have lost the plot on occasions, so I am so looking forward come the new year when most of this is behind us.

Fair play to you, very gracious post. I was thinking similar tbh on the level of division / the culture war and our discourse.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

You might They still ring me every so often to ask why I didn't renew my membership back in... 2017 I think?

I may just wait for publication then as I hate being pestered. I will read in fully though when it does come out

 

[Astute]

Ken Clarke votes for an agreement that will take us out. Rees-Mogg and Johnson vote against it.

tbh, had the people who supposedly want leave focussed on a mild spot of compromise, we'd have left. Had we embraced the customs union, as in the last Labour manifesto, we'd have left as Labour would have voted for it. When the opportunity was there to vote for a preference of revoking Article 50, it was not passed. There was not a majority for that.

I'm afraid it *is* the leavers in parliament who make it impossible for us to leave, because of an extreme ideology where they wish to break everybody else.

So it is all about those who want to leave and not remain because you can name a few leavers out of the hundreds of MP's?

So who stopped it when Boris voted for the last May agreement to go through? Must have been the rest of the leavers I suppose.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I may just wait for publication then as I hate being pestered. I will read in fully though when it does come out

tbh, and I know it's naive, but really we should all read *all* the manifestos of parties, and see which one tallies with our own views the most. Of course we'll all have some prior bias in there, so we'll all be disposed to some ahead of others (I'd struggle to get past the first page of the Tory one, but I should!), but it is the best indicator of what they're about, rather than filtered through sensationalist headlines.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

In my opinion it is a more realistic assessment

To be fair to you you have put in your opinion there, but I'll have to respectfully disagree. Using a metric that removes a large number of the poorest paid and thus in most need of a pay rise when looking at pay rise % is not a realistic assessment. If anything they should be front-and-centre in the measurement, not marginalised.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

tbh, and I know it's naive, but really we should all read *all* the manifestos of parties, and see which one tallies with our own views the most. Of course we'll all have some prior bias in there, so we'll all be disposed to some ahead of others (I'd struggle to get past the first page of the Tory one, but I should!), but it is the best indicator of what they're about, rather than filtered through sensationalist headlines.

I read the Conservatives one in 2017. Few efforts to cost anything and pledges to raise military spending above the rate of the inflation while denying public sector workers an above inflation pay rise.

 

[skybluetony176]

The thing is, Farage (and Johnson) have always been opportunists. We're not learning anything that wasn't already known about their characters these past few weeks.

They are very successful opportunists, however!

We’ll have to wait and see but I think that they’ve both overplayed their hand now. I say now because I think Boris probably overplayed his hand at the moment he joined and led the leave campaign, Ferage overplayed his hand the moment he recently decided it must be the hardest of Brexits. The interesting thing is that it’s took to this moment for it to both catch up with them. The stars have aligned and unless Ferage changes tact this is the biggest threat ever to Brexit.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I read the Conservatives one in 2017. Few efforts to cost anything and pledges to raise military spending above the rate of the inflation while denying public sector workers an above inflation pay rise.

That one was particularly poorly written. The 'benefit the rich' undercurrent to it was far too transparent which made it all the more infuriating when they're trying to pass it off as a benefit to the man on the street (and even that benefit was an unintentional side effect).

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We’ll have to wait and see but I think that they’ve both overplayed their hand now. I say now because I think Boris probably overplayed his hand at the moment he joined and led the leave campaign, Ferage overplayed his hand the moment he recently decided it must be the hardest of Brexits. The interesting thing is that it’s took to this moment for it to both catch up with them. The stars have aligned and unless Ferage changes tact this is the biggest threat ever to Brexit.

Part of me really hopes that Corbyn and Labour aren't railroaded into increasing focus on Brexit but keep it on the wider picture. It would be interesting to see how a Tory leave-heavy campaign, a LD remain-heavy campaign and a Labour multi-issue focus played out.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Part of me really hopes that Corbyn and Labour aren't railroaded into increasing focus on Brexit but keep it on the wider picture. It would be interesting to see how a Tory leave-heavy campaign, a LD remain-heavy campaign and a Labour multi-issue focus played out.

They should push at the obvious Tory weak links, such as the NHS

 

[Ian1779]

I'll sign up today, just hope I don't get bombarded with ads and calls

It will be the emails.... loads of them.

 

[skybluetony176]

Part of me really hopes that Corbyn and Labour aren't railroaded into increasing focus on Brexit but keep it on the wider picture. It would be interesting to see how a Tory leave-heavy campaign, a LD remain-heavy campaign and a Labour multi-issue focus played out.

If the other parties do attempt to make it all about leave or remain I think labour would be wise to make their campaign about everything else with a slight nod to the other parties wanting to deny the public a referendum on a/the deal by showing a general election nothing but contempt by essentially making it a referendum. They need to keep it a general election campaign and highlight that others aren’t.

 

[Astute]

They should push at the obvious Tory weak links, such as the NHS

But it is also a Labour weak point. This is what most on here love to ignore.

OK. So the Labour leader....whoever it is.....brings up privatisation done by the Tories. They would be hit straight back with what Labour did themselves. Then the Tory benches would erupt with their false laughter and heckling. It would have to be brought up by someone from a party that is innocent of the same charge.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

But it is also a Labour weak point. This is what most on here love to ignore.

Labour are trusted far more with the NHS than the Tories.

 

[Ian1779]

But it is also a Labour weak point. This is what most on here love to ignore.

OK. So the Labour leader....whoever it is.....brings up privatisation done by the Tories. They would be hit straight back with what Labour did themselves. Then the Tory benches would erupt with their false laughter and heckling. It would have to be brought up by someone from a party that is innocent of the same charge.

It’s not a weak point though is it. McDonnell has made it clear he would end the PFI clusterfuck if they came to power. If there was a Blairite leading the party you’d have a point.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So it is all about those who want to leave and not remain because you can name a few leavers out of the hundreds of MP's?

So who stopped it when Boris voted for the last May agreement to go through? Must have been the rest of the leavers I suppose.

Well yes, ERG and DUP for many! And Boris voted against it. Sensed blood, went for it. That's the truth that many wish to ignore

But I'm not going to change your opinion, so it's a bit pointless us both making pronouncements, isn't it.

 

[Astute]

Labour are trusted far more with the NHS than the Tories.

How many Labour governments have we had since the 70's that haven't speeded up privatisation of the NHS?

Parliament is a place for children to misbehave. When there is a majority house it is hard to be heard. But it is a crap stat that would be used. Then how much the Tories could twist on the extra money is going into the NHS. I can see it happening already.

 

[Astute]

It’s not a weak point though is it. McDonnell has made it clear he would end the PFI clusterfuck if they came to power. If there was a Blairite leading the party you’d have a point.

Which is why I say Labour need a charismatic leader. Thrust the point home.

Was Bliar seen as bad before he got voted in? People will remember a Labour government finishing off final salary pensions. They will remember Labour taking us to war because of lies.

If all Tory leaders can be seen as the same why won't all Labour leader's be seen as the same?

 

[Astute]

Well yes, ERG and DUP for many! And Boris voted against it. Sensed blood, went for it. That's the truth that many wish to ignore

But I'm not going to change your opinion, so it's a bit pointless us both making pronouncements, isn't it.

And Boris voted for it. He tried to rally the troops to accept it. Lots left the Tory party because of not voting it through.

 

[Ian1779]

Which is why I say Labour need a charismatic leader. Thrust the point home.

Was Bliar seen as bad before he got voted in? People will remember a Labour government finishing off final salary pensions. They will remember Labour taking us to war because of lies.

If all Tory leaders can be seen as the same why won't all Labour leader's be seen as the same?

I still don’t agree with your assertion of Corbyn - but the other points are fair.

 

[Astute]

I still don’t agree with your assertion of Corbyn - but the other points are fair.

We will have to agree to disagree on Corbyn. What he says is fine. But he doesn't push it across like he could.

We will see when Corbyn and Boris get together on TV. Hopefully we get a neutral host plus anyone involved who isn't an MP if it isn't just the two of them. Hopefully Boris doesn't pull Corbyn to bits. As that would be the end for Labour for years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We will have to agree to disagree on Corbyn. What he says is fine. But he doesn't push it across like he could.

We will see when Corbyn and Boris get together on TV. Hopefully we get a neutral host plus anyone involved who isn't an MP if it isn't just the two of them. Hopefully Boris doesn't pull Corbyn to bits. As that would be the end for Labour for years.

Johnson is at home in that format. Crack a few jokes, cry 'will of the people' and it doesn't matter what Corbyn does in response.

 

[shmmeee]

No deal?

OMG why do I bother? This is a remain whatever or vote for Corbyn as it is all lies by the media about him shitfest.

If it is all about a no deal why does parliament keep stopping agreements between whoever is PM and the EU?

The article you linked to was about MPs voting to extend negotiations and avoid no deal. Theresa May voted for it.

As I keep stating, there has been a majority for a soft Brexit using Labour MPs in Leave seats to outweigh the ERG. But the Tories wanted to use it to hurt Labour and keep their party together. Then things got so desperate there was a majority for the Boris deal, with the hope (but not expectation) of being able to amend it. Boris pulled it because his team wants a pre-Brexit election.

The idea that Parliament wants to stop Brexit makes no sense in light of the fact they’ve never even seriously attempted to push Remain, just avoid a hard Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

Which is why I say Labour need a charismatic leader. Thrust the point home.

Was Bliar seen as bad before he got voted in? People will remember a Labour government finishing off final salary pensions. They will remember Labour taking us to war because of lies.

If all Tory leaders can be seen as the same why won't all Labour leader's be seen as the same?

the strange thing is all the alleged Tory spending cuts have only happened due to the spending of Blair’s government which was huge and all comparisons are made against a Blair model of spend

 

[skybluetony176]

the strange thing is all the alleged Tory spending cuts have only happened due to the spending of Blair’s government which was huge and all comparisons are made against a Blair model of spend

So the global crash had nothing to do with it?

Also, on another thread aren’t you in denial about cuts under the Tories?

 

[Astute]

The article you linked to was about MPs voting to extend negotiations and avoid no deal. Theresa May voted for it.

As I keep stating, there has been a majority for a soft Brexit using Labour MPs in Leave seats to outweigh the ERG. But the Tories wanted to use it to hurt Labour and keep their party together. Then things got so desperate there was a majority for the Boris deal, with the hope (but not expectation) of being able to amend it. Boris pulled it because his team wants a pre-Brexit election.

The idea that Parliament wants to stop Brexit makes no sense in light of the fact they’ve never even seriously attempted to push Remain, just avoid a hard Brexit.

Yes a majority that want an agreement....That turn down agreements.

Are you saying that the agreements made with the EU equal to what is called a hard Brexit? Because that is what keeps getting turned down. And turned down by those who want to remain.

 

[shmmeee]

How many Labour governments have we had since the 70's that haven't speeded up privatisation of the NHS?

Parliament is a place for children to misbehave. When there is a majority house it is hard to be heard. But it is a crap stat that would be used. Then how much the Tories could twist on the extra money is going into the NHS. I can see it happening already.

We’ve had one Labour government since the 70s...

 

[skybluetony176]

We’ve had one Labour government since the 70s...

Pfft. Details.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes a majority that want an agreement....That turn down agreements.

Are you saying that the agreements made with the EU equal to what is called a hard Brexit? Because that is what keeps getting turned down. And turned down by those who want to remain.

“agreements” is a very very broad term. And yes, I’m saying the Boris deal (which was passing parliament) is a hard Brexit:

 

[Astute]

Johnson is at home in that format. Crack a few jokes, cry 'will of the people' and it doesn't matter what Corbyn does in response.

And that is my point. Charisma. Doesn't make him the person to lead our country. But I laugh when anyone makes out that Corbyn has it. It can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. Might not make for good watching. The results of the election could depend on it.

How many have faith in Corbyn putting on a good show? Because that is what it is.

 

[Astute]

“agreements” is a very very broad term. And yes, I’m saying the Boris deal (which was passing parliament) is a hard Brexit:

View attachment 13357

Once more yet again. Boris voted for the May agreement.

So you are niw saying that the EU want a so called hard Brexit? Because it is what they agreed on.

And by the way it is an agreement not a deal. It is an agreement on what will happen so a deal can be made.