Football league admit incompetance!!! (1 Viewer)

[Fedupskybluesfan]

There is no evidence the Golden share was anywhere other than CCFC Ltd since 1995. To move it requires written approval from FL

- All the accounts indicate until 31/05/11 share in CCFC Ltd thats why they were prepared as they were
- Company memorandum & articles approved by FA & FL confirm the club trading and therefore the share was in CCFC Ltd
- Actual minutes from CCFC Board meeting in 2008 confirm the share was in CCFC Ltd (thats after SISU bought in)
- the annual returns that provide a list of share holders at Company House submitted by FL show CCFC Ltd as the share holder
- The FA and FL have both confirmed in statements and written replies to ACL & Administrator that the share was in CCFC Ltd

There is no mistake the share was in CCFC Ltd

The investigation suggested by SISU into ACL CCFC CCFC H etc back to 2001 is just more smoke and mirrors to hide behind. They did due diligence in 2008 and bought as it was then in March 2008 confirmed in the Board minutes of the group the situation as disclosed in the accounts all along. The trade the players the share was in CCFC Ltd

No mistake, just because they admit to mistakes in registering players doesnt mean it is all wrong. You would have to ask if the directors of CCFC H knew that the trade etc was in CCFC Ltd why they tried to register players to CCFC H in the first place ....... one might be an error but a whole squad?

Appologies for keep coming back to you, I think there are crossed wires.
I agree the GS is with Ltd as admitted by the FL.
My question should of been, if the Premier Share was with Holdings as it must of before 1995, then when Ltd was created in 1995 there should be written evidence showing that it was moved?? If so why did the directors back then who moved it why we're the players not moved at the same time??

 

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[stupot07]

Looks as of the whole admin process can be re-run knowing players contracts are in LtD.

Enter Haskell and Byng again!

But the FL bloke said they're in holdings?

Can't see how this changes anything, the FA and FL won't do a U-turn.

 

[Noggin]

All added to Les Reids Article http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-league-admits-coventry-city-5741590

An ACL spokesman said:“The Football League’s admission that it has made serious errors in the administration of Coventry City Football Club is a crucial development in this saga.
“That is what all the publicly available documentation makes clear – from the 2008 board minutes that recently came to light right through to the last set of filed accounts in 2012. It is also what the Football League’s own regulations say should be the case.
“It is therefore deeply disappointing that they have waited until now – with the administration process almost over – to make this admission.
"But fortunately there is still time to resolve this matter. The joint administrators have not yet liquidated the club so there is still time for a proper administration process to be run – one based on all the facts – that provides a fair outcome for creditors, for prospective purchasers of the club, and most of all for Sky Blues fans themselves.”
ACL also said today it was renewing its call on the League to refer to the FA ACL's complaint about the club groundsharing at Northampton Town - under regulation 79 of the League's regulations.
“There are various options now open the administrators. At the very least, we would hope to see revised CVA (Creditor Voluntary Arrangement) proposals, which we have been requesting for the last two weeks.”
A spokesman for Paul Appleton said: "Contrary to ACL's statement I can confirm there has been no request for a revised CVA."
Coventry City released the following response to our story: "As the club has consistently maintained, the players contracts have been registered by CCFC (Holdings) Ltd and registered by the Football League in the name of Holdings for over 10 years - way before Sisu took over the club.
"Today's admission by the Football League confirms that.
"Despite claims to the contrary, it should also come as no surprise to many of those who have been involved for many years at a senior level at the club and ACL - including former directors and a finance director - that this was the case.
"The reason given for refusing the CVA and penalising the club by a further 10 points was their stated aim to undertake an investigation into that which they already knew the answer.
"To be clear, players have been contracted to CCFCH and registered as such by the Football League since well before Sisu's takeover when the club was relegated from the Premier League.
"The mistake if there was one, was not that the players’ contracts should have been registered in the name of CCFC Ltd, but that the Golden Share should have been registered in Holdings, which owned the beneficial interest in the club.
"At least now, with this out in the open and with the club reconstituted, we can get on with the business of running the football club and giving our full support to Steven Pressley and the team.
"We would now suggest the city council and ACL drop their efforts to force a change of ownership of the club - conduct which is now subject to oral argument in the request for judicial review."

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Lol...there's a claim in there which is just laughable

 

[oldskyblue58]

so a small question but in the first administration report issued the director of CCFC Ltd - Tim Fisher- listed player registrations of £466K as assets of CCFC Ltd at 22/03/13. So how is it obvious that all players were registered with the FL in CCFC Holdings?

 

[Sisued]

At what point can the fraud squad take an interest?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Appologies for keep coming back to you, I think there are crossed wires.
I agree the GS is with Ltd as admitted by the FL.
My question should of been, if the Premier Share was with Holdings as it must of before 1995, then when Ltd was created in 1995 there should be written evidence showing that it was moved?? If so why did the directors back then who moved it why we're the players not moved at the same time??

Eberything in the accounts which have been audited has always said the players were contracted to CCFC Ltd - what can I tell you, the auiditors would have had to check the contracts to do their job. So they must have seen evidence the players registrations & contracts were in CCFC Ltd along with the share

 

[Godiva]

so a small question but in the first administration report issued the director of CCFC Ltd - Tim Fisher- listed player registrations of £466K as assets of CCFC Ltd at 22/03/13. So how is it obvious that all players were registered with the FL in CCFC Holdings?

Maybe the answer is quite simple: Maybe the players were 'always' registered at the FL (and by the FL) as belonging to Holdings - and as assets of Limited in the company accounts. Would that not be the mess Brookefield and Fisher referred to?
Would that be illegal?
And coming back to my previous question: Could it be that new players since 2011 or 2012 have been bought by holdings and the small amount of contracts in Limited be from the only players that have not been transferred out or given new contracts since 2011/12?

 

[Saddler17]

I wonder if I could butt in and ask a question? I've been following this story closely - it fascinates me and disgusts me in equal measure. The incompetence of that weasel Greg Clarke is beyond compare, it was a sad day when Brian Mawhinney stepped down as FL chair.

Anyway, what I've been wondering is what happened to CCFC Ltd's income? If their only outgoings was to ACL (which was not paid) then surely there should have been some cash assets from things like TV revenue and prize money? This must have been paid to Ltd rather than Holdings as they held the Golden Share. But where has that money gone? Was it immediately used to repay the multi-million pound debt to - whoever - and if so, how do ACL feel about that? My ponderings lead me to suspect that the FL has also paid prize money to Holdings rather than Ltd. Is this feasible? Or is it a stupid question? Because if it's true, then it's surely an even more serious situation than registering players to the wrong company.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Haven't read all 15 pages as I'm going to celebrate the FLs admission of incompetence with a pint.

Absolute sh*t heads. Lying, shameful and disgraceful. My emotions have been fairly stable through all of this but I cannot describe my anger at the part they've played in this.

WM

 

[CarpyCov84]

What's people opinions on what will happen next then ?

 

[Godiva]

What's people opinions on what will happen next then ?

The blame game will continue - as will sisu's ownership.

 

[Monners]

Any chance of exerting pressure on Clarke to "seriuosly consider his position". Maybe Ainsworth can lever in some pressure

 

[Jack Griffin]

This bit here http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-league-admits-coventry-city-5741590 is a blatant lie..

Coventry City released the following response to our story: "As the club has consistently maintained, the players contracts have been registered by CCFC (Holdings) Ltd and registered by the Football League in the name of Holdings for over 10 years - way before Sisu took over the club.

It directly contradicts the boards minutes published on 200% recently... and also this other bit in the article

The Telegraph has learned the League will tell the sports minister that, over time, the business model of Coventry City became increasingly complicated, and the errors had occurred within that period.

 

[Jack Griffin]

This might have already been mentioned but I wouldnt be surprised if sisu have threatened legal action against the football league if things hadnt worked out their way.

I'd be surprised if they didn't!

 

[Jack Griffin]

They do not hold the company house reg numbers of the league clubs, so do not know which coventry company the were dealing with. All they held was a name (coventry city) so it was easy for Fisher to move the assets to one company and the debt to another.

The company number of Coventry City FC Ltd has appeared in the Football League handbook as owning the golden share.. so they did know.

 

[Noggin]

16 pages and no one has mentioned the irony of me spelling incompetence wrong in the thread title. I'm impressed.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Best to spread the word via twitter on this, point newspaper journos, talksport, 5live to the Telegraph story...etc

 

[Jack Griffin]

You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???

That is nonsense, a smokescreen, everyone knew very clearly that the GS was in CCFC Ltd & that is where the player assets should be held.

The changes implemented by Mr Fisher & SISU in the last few years were in my opinion an attempt to break their long term rent agreement with ACL and I think there may be a case for ACL to claim substantial damages over these actions (which I very much doubt they were made aware of).

 

[Grendel]

That is nonsense, a smokescreen, everyone knew very clearly that the GS was in CCFC Ltd & that is where the player assets should be held.

The changes implemented by Mr Fisher & SISU in the last few years were in my opinion an attempt to break their long term rent agreement with ACL and I think there may be a case for ACL to claim substantial damages over these actions (which I very much doubt they were made aware of).

If I was you I'd get onto Interpol -- I'd take your Yo Yo with you jut to prove its not a pointless, stupid conspiracy theory dreamed up by a deranged loony tune.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Sisu are a debt based hedge fund. They know how to setup and close down companies and how to move around assets and debts to their advantage, and how to play the system..
We all know that right?
Its up to others to take it to court etc if they believe there was wrong doing or they were misled and are out of pocket illegally.

 

[Houchens Head]

16 pages and no one has mentioned the irony of me spelling incompetence wrong in the thread title. I'm impressed.

I see the word "incompetence" is spelt wrong in the thread title. Can someone tell the OP?

 

[dadgad]

Sisu are a debt based hedge fund. They know how to setup and close down companies and how to move around assets and debts to their advantage, and how to play the system..
We all know that right?
Its up to others to take it to court etc if they believe there was wrong doing or they were misled and are out of pocket illegally.

Yeah, but football isn't a normal business. For a start it has this community angle which they clearly do not understand.
Then there's fans who are "customers". Something a bit alien to these pin striped, pen pushing, boardroom, bean counting knobends.
And then there's the FL guidelines which not even the FL have a clue about.

In any case this Joy Sepulchre - does she know the difference between pass and hoof, 442 and the diamond. I reckon she's WWWWWAAAAAYYYYY out of her depth.

 

[cloughie]

Haven't read all the thread but the actions of the FL surely means the process administration, bidding for CCFC Ltd was flawed as if the players belong to Ltd then others may have bid differently as the company would have had a larger value with owning the players.

CCFC not yet liquidated, the administrator is obviously been seen to been, well some may say, incompetent and not fit for purpose.

These type of sharks need striking off and not allowed to practice their deceptions, I have heard said

 

[dadgad]

That's right Cloughie.

More 'evidence" of sharp practice.

 

[chiefdave]

Yeah, but football isn't a normal business.

spot on, imagine if this wasn't football club and it was a box making company or something. no one would be looking in this level of detail into what has been going on, SISU would have just done whatever they wanted through their chosen administrator and that would be the end of it.

Also remember when you try to operate very close to the edge of any regulations it only needs one small slip and you've stepped over the line, with the increasing level of scrutiny I doubt even SISU are 100% certain everything is in order.

 

[longjohnskyblue]

Probably doesn't have a bearing, but didn't virgin media get to bid on the rail franchise because it was proven the bidding process was initially flawed?

Surely if Appleton knew this information and kept it quiet, then he will have to answer for this, and if he didn't know, then again he will have to answer, as clearly he didn't do his job correctly! The FL have a chance to redeem themselves, and do what they should have done in the first place - follow their own rules!

If they do this, then there can be no way sisu can be allowed to hold on to the registration, the fabled golden fleece (sorry share) can go back to where it belongs, and bidders can bid on a level playing field - which I doubt sisu would win!

 

[dadgad]

That's a good post, it sounds logical even plausible, which probably means it won't happen. :-(
Still, at long last I am hopeful we are closer to getting some justice for us, the fans.
Fair play t the FL for finally coming clean.

I think Appleton is worried.

 

[Astute]

And after reading all of this thread I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that ACL were right to turn down the CVA and let the truth come out as was predicted by some on here.

Is there still anyone unhappy with them doing so, and if so why?

 

[simple_simon]

And after reading all of this thread I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that ACL were right to turn down the CVA and let the truth come out as was predicted by some on here.

Is there still anyone unhappy with them doing so, and if so why?

I am very happy they did not sign it as now everything is getting out into the open.

 

[shmmeee]

And after reading all of this thread I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that ACL were right to turn down the CVA and let the truth come out as was predicted by some on here.

Is there still anyone unhappy with them doing so, and if so why?

Plus, you know, we found out the didn't lose any money by turning it down so the other argument was baseless too.

 

[robbieray]

Sisu are hoping this goes away, we need to get behind this....make it big

 

[withnail]

The FL appear to be like so many other organisations in positions of responsibility - weak and incompetent.
Can't stand that advert on tv with fans wishing them a happy birthday. I just wish they'd get their act together the tossers.

 

[RogerH]

Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but are the FL being pressed to put right what they got wrong. Clarke issuing a "sorry" statement is nowhere near good enough.

 

[Sky Blues]

A good day to bury bad news?

It appears from the following article that the Press Association picked up on this story:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-coventry-row-rumbles-173553198.html

All the major newsrooms in the country will have access to PA stories, so you would think it would appear in at least some of the newspapers and websites...

Well, apart from that link above and the Coventry Telegraph, I haven't found it anywhere else with a quick Google search.

Could it be that the eve of the Premier League season, when all the sports reporters had their eyes on the top flight, was specifically chosen as the perfect moment to release this little bombshell - or am I being too cynical? :thinking about: