Football league admit incompetance!!! (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Isn't it all academic though? Would any of the other bidders really have been in a position to offer a better deal to creditors than SISU/Otium - regardless of what assets were in Ltd?

I suspect not, although we cannot know for sure, so an interesting development, albeit one that makes the whole situation even messier.

I think the point is that if the assets are known and the club itself is in CCFC Ltd the bidding process would quite likely be on a different basis whereby bidders would have to put forward a detailed business plan showing funding and ground arrangements etc rather than a straight cash bid for assets that may or mey not be there. At the very least you would expect more than £1.5m and therefore more available to creditors in a CVA
 

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
I agree.

A tangible value can be placed on CCFC. Potential buyers know what they are bidding for (this is what put Byng off) and make detailed business plans, funding criteria and take it from there.

No way is CCFC ltd worth £1.5m on this basis. It is the whole club with a rental agreement to play at Ricoh.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Why would the FL be reluctant to say when the registrations were moved?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
In your opinion what will come
Of this realistically ???

Would like to think that a new administration process now has to be completed. I would also guess that Mr Appleton is some what "tainted" by what has gone on even if he has done nothing wrong (I no evidence he has broken any law or regulation) so I would hope a new administrator appointed. However it will not be a quick process because it may well require legal action to get assets back from Otium etc, or even to restart the administration process. But it could mean CCFC back in Coventry sooner than 3 to 5 years. However it might mean a bloody big battle to do it. Of course SISU could bid again and we are back to square one but if there is a bidder able to prove greater long term income say at the Ricoh that can fund a CVA then SISU have a problem.

Toughest battle will be getting the process restarted - SISU will fight tooth and nail to stop that

I think the FL have serious problems and this could lead potentially to a shake up of football governance generally which in my opinion is well over due

Still a long way to go I am afraid
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
I can see the CCFC statement now "Nothing to worry about it's just Normal Business Practice".
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Why would the FL be reluctant to say when the registrations were moved?
Because its shows their administration process is not fit for purpose. What implications does their incompetence have on other clubs?
Who knows but it should be a simple question for them to answer. It was also key to a fair administration process in law!
 
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ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
Would like to think that a new administration process now has to be completed. I would also guess that Mr Appleton is some what "tainted" by what has gone on even if he has done nothing wrong (I no evidence he has broken any law or regulation) so I would hope a new administrator appointed. However it will not be a quick process because it may well require legal action to get assets back from Otium etc, or even to restart the administration process. But it could mean CCFC back in Coventry sooner than 3 to 5 years. However it might mean a bloody big battle to do it. Of course SISU could bid again and we are back to square one but if there is a bidder able to prove greater long term income say at the Ricoh that can fund a CVA then SISU have a problem.

Toughest battle will be getting the process restarted - SISU will fight tooth and nail to stop that

I think the FL have serious problems and this could lead potentially to a shake up of football governance generally which in my opinion is well over due

Still a long way to go I am afraid

Would another investor, be it Preston IV or similar champion such a cause do you think.. if not, who would/could challenge- ACL-CCC- The Higgs Trust?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Why would the FL be reluctant to say when the registrations were moved?

Because if it went on for years then that indicates pretty poor governance at a time they at trying to prove to the select committe they are fit for purpose

If it all happened in the last 18 months to 2 years it kind of says they were complicit in what was going on even if innocently.

either way it doesnt look good

Of course the information as specifically relating to CCFC and players could be classed as confidential leagally pending any court actions so releasing details might prejudice that
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Yes FL are admitting mistakes, but they have not said player contracts had been transferred!

So maybe sisu/TF actually never did transfer or move assets from limited to Holdings. Maybe only new players were registered in Holdings? I think I remember there were a tiny sum listed in limited as player or staff contracts, and I assumed those would be the players on old - long - contracts like McSheff and Bell.

No McSheff and Bell were signed to new contracts about a month after Otium was registered as a company in 2011.

Make no mistake this isn't Fishers baby, Delieu and Brody started this plan off.
 

barnes8

New Member
SkySports, BBC etc should be all over this. Same with the major papers. Shocking admittance of incompetence. Farcicial. Greg Clarke's resignation should be called for immediately.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17316748 What exactly did all this talk from the FA last year amount to as well? Diddly squat. Us fans have been royally done over.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
It is why we should campaign for all National sporting Bodies to be included in the Freedom of Information Act...this has been put before MPs before. The Football League would have to provide stats and statistics when asked...rather than fob off automated replies.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Would another investor, be it Preston IV or similar champion such a cause do you think.. if not, who would/could challenge- ACL-CCC- The Higgs Trust?

unlikely as the action would need to be brought by a creditor who would under write the costs of the administration

here is another thought does Appleton actually get paid out of the administration? His costs are under written by SISU - good luck collecting that if it goes pear shaped!

The £1.5m I would guess would have to be repaid to Otium on recovery of the assets
 

ArchieLittle

New Member
FL should take back GS in relation to this revelation & a new administration should be ordered..

Agreed, take share back, appoint a new administrator and let him run the club while the bid process is re-run with correct assets.
Let the administrator decide if it is in the best interest of the creditors to play in Coventry or Northampton. If he decides it's Coventry then SISU can sort out payment to NTFC
 

Pubboy

New Member
Would like to think that a new administration process now has to be completed. I would also guess that Mr Appleton is some what "tainted" by what has gone on even if he has done nothing wrong (I no evidence he has broken any law or regulation) so I would hope a new administrator appointed. However it will not be a quick process because it may well require legal action to get assets back from Otium etc, or even to restart the administration process. But it could mean CCFC back in Coventry sooner than 3 to 5 years. However it might mean a bloody big battle to do it. Of course SISU could bid again and we are back to square one but if there is a bidder able to prove greater long term income say at the Ricoh that can fund a CVA then SISU have a problem.

Toughest battle will be getting the process restarted - SISU will fight tooth and nail to stop that

I think the FL have serious problems and this could lead potentially to a shake up of football governance generally which in my opinion is well over due

Still a long way to go I am afraid

More hope than we had this time yesterday !
 

SkyBlue76

New Member
staring at the screen is making my eyes tired. Starting to ... YAWN ... fall asleep...

Headline: Biggest Football Fraud Case Concluded

Article: After years of legal wrangling, Judge Judy finally passed verdict on the infamous CCFC Ltd case, sentencing Joy Seppala, Tim Fisher and Paul Appleton to life in prison with Greg Clarke receiving ten years.

The case came to court after the Football League admitted serious errors in its handling of the player registrations in CCFC (Holdings) Ltd which were complicit in defrauding potential bidders for the club. On 16th August 2013, Greg Clarke gave a media interview where he claimed that the Football League had done nothing wrong, only for the Football League to admit the very same day that 'administrative errors' led to player registrations being held in separate companies to the Golden Share - which was, and still is, against Football League rules. This error had resulted in an administration process which was based on limited and inaccurate information, thereby stacking the result heavily in the favour of SISU.

In describing Paul Appleton's role as Administrator, Judge Judy said: "It is difficult to imagine how you claimed to carry out your role in accordance with the law, when it is very clear that you were in the possession of facts that were not shared with all parties. It is also unforgiveable that you attempted to complete the sale of CCFC Ltd to another SISU owned company when it was very clear that it was not in the long term interests of the company, nor indeed in the interests of the creditors whom lost their main tenant as a result."

The administration process had been re-opened following these revelations and the club was sold to Preston Haskell and a Chinese consortium who promised to pump millions into the club, the stadium and into the surrounding region of Coventry.

On hearing the verdict, Joy Seppala (who had spoken through her interpreter, Tim Fisher, throughout the trial) whispered into Tim's ear at which point he shouted abuse at the judge, threatening to move the prison to Northampton and applying for a judicial review against her role as Judge.

Greg Clarke seemed bewildered by the events in the courtroom and as he was led away by the Police was heard saying: "Do I get to go home now?" leading to suspicion that he really was totally clueless and that his main crime was simply being incompetent.

Meanwhile, Coventry City, who now lie seventh in League 1, three points behind the playoff places with ten games to go, are getting ready to show off their new signings, Rooney and Messi, the first major signings under the Haskell/ Byng era and have high hopes for promotion this year. And with all five home games at the Ricoh already sold out, the fans have voted once more with their feet.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Because if it went on for years then that indicates pretty poor governance at a time they at trying to prove to the select committe they are fit for purpose

If it all happened in the last 18 months to 2 years it kind of says they were complicit in what was going on even if innocently.

either way it doesnt look good

Of course the information as specifically relating to CCFC and players could be classed as confidential leagally pending any court actions so releasing details might prejudice that

Could Appleton have demanded this information (by law)?

(if he didn't already know the answer of course..)
 

GaryPendrysEyes

Well-Known Member
Bob Ainsworth raised some of these questions and mentioned the possibility of fraud... So Court action may follow.
This as a minimum needs to go to the FA, a new Administrator appointed and a new fully transparent Admin process followed.

We need to get this in the press...
 

CarpyCov84

New Member
I can't see why this should take so long ???

Take back the GS order a new administration surely this is only a matter of weeks to get sorted...
 

junglej13

Well-Known Member
This might have already been mentioned but I wouldnt be surprised if sisu have threatened legal action against the football league if things hadnt worked out their way.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
This might have already been mentioned but I wouldnt be surprised if sisu have threatened legal action against the football league if things hadnt worked out their way.

It's been all but confirmed in the Clarke interview.
 
Firstly when the original company was split it was done with written approval from the FA and FL. In which case everyone knew where the share and it was in CCFC Ltd. When they got relegated it would have been CCFC Ltd that exchanged the share with I think Fulham as they went up. In 2008 when SISU took over there are Board minutes stating they knew where the share was in CCFC ltd. The FL have also confirmed that in March 2013 the share resided in CCFC Ltd until they took it back. Dont think there was any real confusion


The problem with your statement is you said the FA and the FL new, well didn't they also know that the players were in CCFC Ltd?? Obviously not as said in earlier statement. My point is if they could make that mistake could they also have made a mistake with the GS?? If you are saying it was with Ltd and not holdings in 2001 when we got relegated where can we see the evidence to prove this?? I think this is why an investigation into this, is what SISU have said they would like as no one after today's admittance by the FL could believe where anything is.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Clarke stated the League had a pile of legal letters from both sides of the dispute
 

AFCCOVENTRY

Well-Known Member
If acl reverse the decision for a new cva to be created via a new administration process then club gets 10pts back.

If club stays in admin until next season then there will be a deduction.

Clearly a judge would say to Appleton he needs to carry out the process again based on facts of knowing what assets are in CCFC ltd. On that basis potential buyers can base their bids and business case.

As mentioned before. Sisu could have scored an own goal here by moving the club to Northampton.

If a new admin round started, what would the administration do of Haskell owned acl and reunites the club and stadium? Acl debt is clear and a sustainable plan to play at Ricoh who income. The Haskell purchases assets from CCFC ltd.

Sisu have stuck the club at a ground 30miles away.

Suddenly sisus business case looks weak.

Basically what football league has admitted is that this admin process should have been like any other club but it hasn't due to incompetence.

This has just got very interesting.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
West Ham threatened a JR against the League for wanting to introduce Championship FFP rules in time for the 12/13 season (or 13/14 season) as there was a chance of them still being in the division when the rules came in. The League relented and pushed it back to the 14/15 season which would give West Ham and other debt racking clubs time to spend their way out-so it's not the first time that the threat of legal action has scared off the authorities.
 

CarpyCov84

New Member
If acl reverse the decision for a new cva to be created via a new administration process then club gets 10pts back.

If club stays in admin until next season then there will be a deduction.

Clearly a judge would say to Appleton he needs to carry out the process again based on facts of knowing what assets are in CCFC ltd. On that basis potential buyers can base their bids and business case.

As mentioned before. Sisu could have scored an own goal here by moving the club to Northampton.

If a new admin round started, what would the administration do of Haskell owned acl and reunites the club and stadium? Acl debt is clear and a sustainable plan to play at Ricoh who income. The Haskell purchases assets from CCFC ltd.

Sisu have stuck the club at a ground 30miles away.

Suddenly sisus business case looks weak.

Basically what football league has admitted is that this admin process should have been like any other club but it hasn't due to incompetence.

This has just got very interesting.

I like this post ;)
 

RPHunt

New Member
Anyone remember AFC Wimbledon being fined, thrown out of the FA Trophy and docked 18 points for fielding an ineligible player? Their "crime", when registering the player was to not tick the box to indicate that they were signing an overseas player - he was signed from Cardiff!

So, when it suits the FA, a struggling club, with part time officials, gets the book thrown at them for a slight technical infringement. Yet a whole squad can be illegally registered and they try to brush it under the carpet. Government intervention now!
 

covhead1

Well-Known Member
I bet Appleton is rubbing his hands together with the prospect of going through the whole process again KERRRRCHIIIING!!!!
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
The problem with your statement is you said the FA and the FL new, well didn't they also know that the players were in CCFC Ltd?? Obviously not as said in earlier statement. My point is if they could make that mistake could they also have made a mistake with the GS?? If you are saying it was with Ltd and not holdings in 2001 when we got relegated where can we see the evidence to prove this?? I think this is why an investigation into this, is what SISU have said they would like as no one after today's admittance by the FL could believe where anything is.

There is no evidence the Golden share was anywhere other than CCFC Ltd since 1995. To move it requires written approval from FL

- All the accounts indicate until 31/05/11 share in CCFC Ltd thats why they were prepared as they were
- Company memorandum & articles approved by FA & FL confirm the club trading and therefore the share was in CCFC Ltd
- Actual minutes from CCFC Board meeting in 2008 confirm the share was in CCFC Ltd (thats after SISU bought in)
- the annual returns that provide a list of share holders at Company House submitted by FL show CCFC Ltd as the share holder
- The FA and FL have both confirmed in statements and written replies to ACL & Administrator that the share was in CCFC Ltd

There is no mistake the share was in CCFC Ltd

The investigation suggested by SISU into ACL CCFC CCFC H etc back to 2001 is just more smoke and mirrors to hide behind. They did due diligence in 2008 and bought as it was then in March 2008 confirmed in the Board minutes of the group the situation as disclosed in the accounts all along. The trade the players the share was in CCFC Ltd

No mistake, just because they admit to mistakes in registering players doesnt mean it is all wrong. You would have to ask if the directors of CCFC H knew that the trade etc was in CCFC Ltd why they tried to register players to CCFC H in the first place ....... one might be an error but a whole squad?
 
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