Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
And someone else will.
Dom Hyam - Blackburn bid ? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Harry H
- Start date
And someone else will.
PUSB-We_are_going_up
Well-Known Member
If Gyok goes because Hyam stays, I propose a new rivalry with B’Burn
Grendel
Well-Known Member
From their perspective why sell?
People really need to wake up and realise a fund owns the club - it cares not a jot about it. Returns for investors are looking likely if we remain in this league and can sell players to give them returns.
Also loans can it seems be made with high levels of interest which also get paid back
Can’t see why they’d sell at anything other than a hugely inflated price and whose doing that when the club has a sub 10 year lease with a rugby club
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Sorry if words are too complicated for you
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I do think the “you are thick Tesco sell goods so why not sell hyam” is an SBT classic
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
There's a different route to that surely by investing in a small number of high potential players per season at least one of whom could be sold for big profit. All that this way of operating does is jeapordise the club's league status.
SeaSeeEffCee
Well-Known Member
This is such an insane comparison.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sisu have no money and no ability to attract investment either so it’s paying returns to the investors in the Arvo fund that matters to them.
PUSB-We_are_going_up
Well-Known Member
We wouldnt have stood a chance in the Premier league looking at this season, we wouldnt be given money to invest, we would have missed out on the first few home games. There was also no guarentee that investment would have propelled us into the promotion picture.
In hindsight its a good job we stayed in this division, under these owners we are going nowhere
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well relegation makes that a moot point surely
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Staying up in the top flight would have been secondary to securing the club's long term financial future
As I said yesterday and think youve alluded to before, I don’t think they have the cash, or at least they’ve not got it available to allocate to us. Otherwise why would you sell a player, potentially at undervalue and/or rushed, when you could loan the money to plug the gap and make good interest on it ?! It doesn’t make sense
I personally think they’d be ready to sell if right offer comes in, however, this is likely to need the stadium to be up for grabs as well
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No the contracts will have relegation clauses - players will be sold - the club will adjust so investors still get returns
They’ll sell if they think this is the time of peak value. They won’t/can’t invest to get us to the prem, the value of the squad is significantly higher than recent years (£25m ?) and most importantly, the stadium could be available to a purchaser which might put a bit of a premium on clubs value
We’re in wasps hands to some extent, need them to go bust and stadium to be up for sale
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes but I can’t see wasps going bust and if they did no one knows what value Seppala will place on the club.
She seems pretty obstinate and irrational to me and if that happened she’d really want to maximise value. I wouldn’t be surprised if she tried to recover the debt in SBS and L as well as OEG so her ego can be well and truly furnished
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes he’s talking Sisu so he should have said Nisa not Tesco
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well then that's a pretty grim future. Is this really going to be it until she kicks the bucket?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I assume we are now at Plan C of the great arena takeover plan
Wait to wasps go into admin and swoop. The problem is she doesn’t strike me as someone whose as clever as she thinks she is. She even got outmanoeuvred in 2012 by Mutton and Lucas and then by Duggins and Maton with Wasps.
Wasps seem as an operation sharper and more ruthless
It seems to me an ego thing. Without the stadium there’s nothing to buy.
It’s a real problem but many on here just froth and get hostile when you talk about it
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Cause it’s just a theory based on past information and prejudice
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It's also completely alien to how a hedge fund usually operates. I assumed they all had an exit strategy that would have been deployed long before now but there's not one in sight.
Who knows on both counts but Id be surprised if her ego/emotion would get in the way. Value is the big unknown but I personally think this is likely to decrease in coming months due to big players contracts running down thereby reducing their values. I honestly can’t see how wasps get out of the current mess with stadium ownership in tact, any normal business would probably be in an insolvency process by now, however, I also accept sport is a strange one so anything could happen !
Grendel
Well-Known Member
She is obstinate and has always been known for it
Queen of debt won't take no for an answer
But, according to rivals, appearances are deceptive. Seppala is a force to be reckoned with. “She has balls of steel,” said one. Seppala has a reputation for playing hardball in the distressed-debt
www.thetimes.co.uk
PUSB-We_are_going_up
Well-Known Member
If she plays hardball why do we have DB negotiating with other clubs, he plays a whole different ball game 1.5m for Hyam laughable
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s the wider context - the failure to secure the stadium in 2012 - which was a clever strategy - has been eating at her ever since
Greggs
Well-Known Member
hahahaha not like you to talk utter tripe now is it?
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
Genuine question though are the investors actually getting returns? I thought the insane interest numbers weren’t actually paid out and only exist as debt on paper. How does that work from an accounting perspective?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Philosorapter
Well-Known Member
For me with the stadium is that there are far too many companies taking a needless cut. Get rid of these companies and work the complex yourself.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
A few people have pointed to how SISU have supported the club under MR. (arrived March 2017)
So some summary actual figures taken from published financial statements since 01 June 2017 to 31 May 2021
Losses in that period £10.56m
Interest charged by owners and included in losses £8.42m (Interest added to interest bearing loans )
so without the interest the club made £2.1m losses in that period
Player sales £11.28m
Player purchases £3.68m
To survive and still make losses of 2.2m the club needed to have a net £7.6m in player sales
SISU loans made £2.14m
SISU Funds extracted £2.25m
EFL Loan £2.4m ( - loan made in 2020/21 accounts repayable over 3 years i believe)
SISU net investment under MR is minus 111k
Balance sheet deficit increased from £17.32m to £27.88m
total liabilities increased from £19.34m to £36.53m
the balance sheet deficit can be partially offset by the real value of the squad not the £3m amortised contract cost shown at 31/05/2021, but is the uplift in value of the whole squad £33m (that just gets us to break even balance sheet)
Of course some of this will have changed since 31/05/2021 and we wont know that until February what the 2022 results are
The club was kept going in that period because of player sales, not because of owner investment. The owners charge high rate interest that cant be paid because the club cannot afford it so is added to growing liabilities - they don't have to charge as much, or any interest, they choose to.
the telling thing to me about the owners is that the owners took out a net £111k during that period of success. That is not in my mind investing in the club. It also suggests that SISU struggle to get additional long term funds or have set a ceiling that only permits emergency funding. Comments from Boddy & MR suggest it is difficult (impossible?) to get further funding from the owners. The fact that they basically advertised the club as for sale also suggests a reluctance to fund further. It also points to the owners intention to extract funds (in 2019 they extracted 1.7m but due Covid problem had to put it back in 2020)
I do not want us to sell Hyam or the "big three" but needs must because i have no confidence in the owners making sustainable funding available. If they do fund, probably short term emergency cash flow funding, the interest rates will be high and expected to be repaid on any major player sale i would think
So some summary actual figures taken from published financial statements since 01 June 2017 to 31 May 2021
Losses in that period £10.56m
Interest charged by owners and included in losses £8.42m (Interest added to interest bearing loans )
so without the interest the club made £2.1m losses in that period
Player sales £11.28m
Player purchases £3.68m
To survive and still make losses of 2.2m the club needed to have a net £7.6m in player sales
SISU loans made £2.14m
SISU Funds extracted £2.25m
EFL Loan £2.4m ( - loan made in 2020/21 accounts repayable over 3 years i believe)
SISU net investment under MR is minus 111k
Balance sheet deficit increased from £17.32m to £27.88m
total liabilities increased from £19.34m to £36.53m
the balance sheet deficit can be partially offset by the real value of the squad not the £3m amortised contract cost shown at 31/05/2021, but is the uplift in value of the whole squad £33m (that just gets us to break even balance sheet)
Of course some of this will have changed since 31/05/2021 and we wont know that until February what the 2022 results are
The club was kept going in that period because of player sales, not because of owner investment. The owners charge high rate interest that cant be paid because the club cannot afford it so is added to growing liabilities - they don't have to charge as much, or any interest, they choose to.
the telling thing to me about the owners is that the owners took out a net £111k during that period of success. That is not in my mind investing in the club. It also suggests that SISU struggle to get additional long term funds or have set a ceiling that only permits emergency funding. Comments from Boddy & MR suggest it is difficult (impossible?) to get further funding from the owners. The fact that they basically advertised the club as for sale also suggests a reluctance to fund further. It also points to the owners intention to extract funds (in 2019 they extracted 1.7m but due Covid problem had to put it back in 2020)
I do not want us to sell Hyam or the "big three" but needs must because i have no confidence in the owners making sustainable funding available. If they do fund, probably short term emergency cash flow funding, the interest rates will be high and expected to be repaid on any major player sale i would think
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Do you think there is any exit strategy OSB?
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
You’re either completely clueless or a SISU stooge.
Or both.
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
Yeah you can’t really be the second one without being the first.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He is just a fucking idiot
