Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Nice climb down by x and musk on grok making images of children

 

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[Grendel]

No great loss



Badenochs grown on me a bit. Very thin behind her though, they desperately need some fresh/better talent in that shadow cabinet

Jenrick is just another chancer that invented himself as Far Right as he thought he would be more popular

 

[chiefdave]

Badenochs grown on me a bit.

I like Kemi Badenoch

Took 60K posts but the thread has finally jumped the shark

 

[chiefdave]

Think Reform, where I presume Jenrick is about to defect to, need to be a bit careful with taking on failed Conservative politicians.

Pretty hard to present yourself as the alternative to the establishment when an ever increasing number in your party are from the government recently voted out.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Took 60K posts but the thread has finally jumped the shark

She seems to tell it how it is. Admitted Tories made mistakes. Hasn’t fucked about with Jenrick to try to placate the further right of the party. Liked the call of considering banning under 16s from social media.

Admittedly shes no Polanski, Farage or Starmer but compared to how she was performing a year ago she appears to be improving. I don’t think that’s overly controversial

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Think Reform, where I presume Jenrick is about to defect to, need to be a bit careful with taking on failed Conservative politicians.

Pretty hard to present yourself as the alternative to the establishment when an ever increasing number in your party are from the government recently voted out.

The idea that Jenrick has had a damascene conversion to Brexit and on immigration is a bit of stretch. When you’re in the public eye, it’s v difficult to change your opinion genuinely without accusations of opportunism.

I’m pretty sure he’s supposed to have said that he’ll lurch rightwards to then govern as a centrist… he comes across as disingenuous

If Reform are about to secure a Labour MP defection, it might do something to balance the narrative of Reform picking up failed Tories.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Took 60K posts but the thread has finally jumped the shark

Yep they only had 10 years on their own after a year it’s time to trust them again

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

She seems to tell it how it is. Admitted Tories made mistakes. Hasn’t fucked about with Jenrick to try to placate the further right of the party. Liked the call of considering banning under 16s from social media.

Admittedly shes no Polanski, Farage or Starmer but compared to how she was performing a year ago she appears to be improving. I don’t think that’s overly controversial

I’ve always like how she interviews and communicates her thought processes.

I’m not plussed about Labour/Green voters questioning why we like her somewhat… I don’t like Polanski but can see his appeal to people on the left.

Starmer never had any appeal, it was apparent that he was a pound shop Blair before he stepped foot in Number 10.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Think Reform, where I presume Jenrick is about to defect to, need to be a bit careful with taking on failed Conservative politicians.

Pretty hard to present yourself as the alternative to the establishment when an ever increasing number in your party are from the government recently voted out.

Reform were establishment figures and are just becoming it more and more

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Anyone who fancies a laugh:

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Reform were establishment figures and are just becoming it more and more

I wouldn’t really call them establishment… outcast Tories, yes. Farage is on record saying he wants a hostile takeover of the Tories.

It’s probably that the Greens will start to poach Labour Left MPs after the next GE if it became apparent that they will supplant Labour. You need some experience of government and the levers of power if you want to be a transformative government of any colour.

It just seems that neither the previous governments no longer know how to ‘get things done’.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The man of the people

 

[Ccfcisparks]

The man of the people

Just a disgusting sell out of a man

 

[fernandopartridge]

Just a disgusting sell out of a man

Exactly, his sole principle is self enrichment

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I wouldn’t really call them establishment… outcast Tories, yes. Farage is on record saying he wants a hostile takeover of the Tories.

It’s probably that the Greens will start to poach Labour Left MPs after the next GE if it became apparent that they will supplant Labour. You need some experience of government and the levers of power if you want to be a transformative government of any colour.

It just seems that neither the previous governments no longer know how to ‘get things done’.

Suggestion being it’s not possible to make meaningful change as there are no levers to use I think
What do you have left then?

 

[PVA]

UK public: give Reform a chance, they can't be any worse!

Farage: Hold my beer

 

[wingy]

No great loss



Badenochs grown on me a bit. Very thin behind her though, they desperately need some fresh/better talent in that shadow cabinet

I agree on this subject it seems/should be luaded but it needs to be applied across the board anyone who's spouting toxic opinions in society she needs to root out even the one's who's platforms are abusing their position,so maybe she's spotted a trend?

 

[wingy]

Exactly, his sole principle is self enrichment

For

Suggestion being it’s not possible to make meaningful change as there are no levers to use I think
What do you have left then?

Embellish things will be the answer!

 

[chiefdave]

I don't have kids but of the people I know who do have kids around uni age the number who are keen to get out of the country is alarming and I can only see that accelerating if we go back to a Conservative government, or even worse Reform.

And what then? When all the people who can get out do, and I'm not talking about the super rich, I'm talking about the ones who actually do the work and generate the wealth, what happens to the country then. I can't see anything other than continuing decline.

Article today in The Times highlighting how kids moving overseas are making more money, having lower costs and a much improved quality of life

https://archive.ph/3JMC7

 

[AOM]

The man of the people

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So jenrick isn’t the establishment and isn’t stained by his performance over the last 10 years ffs

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So jenrick isn’t the establishment and isn’t stained by his performance over the last 10 years ffs

Tbf to Jenrick, he’s been the most repenting of the Tory record in government.

You can’t have it both ways, you can’t criticise Reform for having complete unknowns balls up running county councils and then slag them off to try and get Tory figures who’ve been in government.

If Farage followed Rupert Lowe’s advice and ran candidates with ‘little to no experience’ in politics, that’d go disastrously. It’s a popular thing to say, but it goes downhill v quickly.

Before the next election, there needs to be a clear winner in the fight for the centre-right.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

UK public: give Reform a chance, they can't be any worse!

Farage: Hold my beer

What do you drink mate ?
Net Zero I reckon.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tbf to Jenrick, he’s been the most repenting of the Tory record in government.

You can’t have it both ways, you can’t criticise Reform for having complete unknowns balls up running county councils and then slag them off to try and get Tory figures who’ve been in government.

If Farage followed Rupert Lowe’s advice and ran candidates with ‘little to no experience’ in politics, that’d go disastrously. It’s a popular thing to say, but it goes downhill v quickly.

Before the next election, there needs to be a clear winner in the fight for the centre-right.

"Repenting" means "seeing what's happening and desperately trying to get on board"

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Well, they're not wrong to be fair to them. They're certainly an alternative!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well, they're not wrong to be fair to them. They're certainly an alternative!

I mean it isn't even argued that they sing racist songs and cause trouble. The argument is about what evidence was used to determine it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

"Repenting" means "seeing what's happening and desperately trying to get on board"

He resigned in government…

All politicians, irrespective of what colour rosette they wear, are self-serving and put their self-preservation as number one.

There will be a rump of Labour MPs flocking to the Greens before the next election. If not before, then after they’ve all been wiped out. I don’t blame them, their party (like the Tories) has lost its way and deserves to be destroyed.

This defection goes one of two ways:
1. Attracts flagging tories to Reform as Jenrick is popular with Tory members (what members are actually left)
2. Turns off a big constituent voter of Reform (non-voters) because the perception they’re Tories in disguise sticks
3. (Bonus) that Jenrick turns out to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing to takeover Reform - he’s clearly driven by personal ambition

 

[SBT]

You can’t have it both ways, you can’t criticise Reform for having complete unknowns balls up running county councils and then slag them off to try and get Tory figures who’ve been in government.

If Farage followed Rupert Lowe’s advice and ran candidates with ‘little to no experience’ in politics, that’d go disastrously. It’s a popular thing to say, but it goes downhill v quickly.

Aren’t Reform trying to have it both ways by positioning itself as an agent of change while simultaneously stuffing their ranks with the same Tory and Labour MPs who’ve been at the wheel for the past decade?

Also why the sudden aversion to candidates with no experience, I thought your view was that career politicians should make way for private sector whizz-kids? Can’t Reform find enough of them with their dynamite plans for the economy?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Aren’t Reform trying to have it both ways by positioning itself as an agent of change while simultaneously stuffing their ranks with the same Tory and Labour MPs who’ve been at the wheel for the past decade?

Also why the sudden aversion to candidates with no experience, I thought your view was that career politicians should make way for private sector whizz-kids? Can’t Reform find enough of them with their dynamite plans for the economy?

Which Labour MPs have gone

 

[SBT]

Which Labour MPs have gone

Lee Anderson was Labour before he became an MP, but Farage has strongly suggested that a Labour figure is set to join. Seems inevitable at this stage.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Aren’t Reform trying to have it both ways by positioning itself as an agent of change while simultaneously stuffing their ranks with the same Tory and Labour MPs who’ve been at the wheel for the past decade?

Also why the sudden aversion to candidates with no experience, I thought your view was that career politicians should make way for private sector whizz-kids? Can’t Reform find enough of them with their dynamite plans for the economy?

They’ll be fielding 600+ candidates at the next election so a few MPs is hardly ‘stuffing their ranks’. In any case, how does any party convince the electorate that they’re ready to govern if the have 0 experience of governing. A lot of Starmer’s top team (Cooper, Reeves, McFadden, Miliband and so on) served under Blair/Brown in the cabinet, albeit mostly as junior figures.

Your second paragraph is just made up nonsense. To answer your question, any party needs to recruit elite talent who have had careers outside of parliament. Take, for example, the current PM who only became PM in 2015…

 

[SBT]

To answer your question, any party needs to recruit elite talent who have had careers outside of parliament.

You just said “running candidates with little to no experience in politics would go disastrously”, which is it?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You just said “running candidates with little to no experience in politics would go disastrously”, which is it?

It’s a combination, obviously.

Even if the entire Tory parliamentary party defected, you still another 200-220 MPs. The same logic applies to the Greens too should they be in a position to feasibly form a government.

 

[SBT]

It’s a combination, obviously.

Even if the entire Tory parliamentary party defected, you still another 200-220 MPs. The same logic applies to the Greens too should they be in a position to feasibly form a government.

I would have thought an insurgent party like Reform would have prioritised new/outside voices but apparently not. It seems obvious that Jenrick, Zahawi etc will go straight into high-profile roles within the party.

Maybe people will enjoy the drama of the heel turns - I think the danger is that these defectors just look like the usual opportunistic, disingenuous politicians.