Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

All reform contributors

Let's be honest Pete, Labour is in thrall to private equity themselves.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

I see that utter arse Streeting was taking credit for recent NHS efficiency improvements, suggesting his big redundancy campaign was behind it

He surely must have realised that not a single redundancy has even happened yet. The reason is because he planned this reform in ignorance of the huge redundancy bill that the NHS employers can't afford.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Change, all the talents, competence etc

 

[mmttww]

Change, all the talents, competence etc

it's all getting really f*cking embarrassing now.

 

[duffer]

it's all getting really f*cking embarrassing now.

It's easily resolved. Reverse the appointment, and reselect from candidates who can be seen as genuinely independent. Of course, that won't happen, and it's more grist to the mill for those who think politicians are all the same.

More evidence that Starmer is an absolute fucking disaster as a leader. Freebies, incompetence, the usual whiff of corruption and cronyism, plus the added bonus of zero charisma (and now paranoia about his own cabinet ministers).

Another useless, hypocritical twat who just wants power for the sake of power.

 

[alexccfc99]

It's easily resolved. Reverse the appointment, and reselect from candidates who can be seen as genuinely independent. Of course, that won't happen, and it's more grist to the mill for those who think politicians are all the same.

More evidence that Starmer is an absolute fucking disaster as a leader. Freebies, incompetence, the usual whiff of corruption and cronyism, plus the added bonus of zero charisma (and now paranoia about his own cabinet ministers).

Another useless, hypocritical twat who just wants power for the sake of power.

In my lifetime I can't think of a more universally disliked Prime Minister - Every predecessor in my lifetime has at least had a strong core of supporters to fall back on, Starmer doesn't - the left hate him for not being left enough, the right hate him even more

I would be astonished if he leads them into another election

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

In my lifetime I can't think of a more universally disliked Prime Minister - Every predecessor in my lifetime has at least had a strong core of supporters to fall back on, Starmer doesn't - the left hate him for not being left enough, the right hate him even more

I would be astonished if he leads them into another election

He’s not helped himself but when we’re in a country that voted Johnson and thinks Farage is the most trusted leader we’re truly fucked and he was from day 1

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He’s not helped himself but when we’re in a country that voted Johnson and thinks Farage is the most trusted leader we’re truly fucked and he was from day 1

Ironically, Starmer is the most dishonest of the lot. Who do you trust? Polanski? Davey? Corbyn?

The same Ed Davey that served Cameron’s coalition and a party that reneged on its flagship policy in the election.

If you trust any politician, irrespective of what colour rosette they way on election day, it will end in disappointment.

 

[Grendel]

He’s not helped himself but when we’re in a country that voted Johnson and thinks Farage is the most trusted leader we’re truly fucked and he was from day 1

I doubt many people would trust Farage but you can see certainly why Johnson was far more popular than Starmer

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ironically, Starmer is the most dishonest of the lot. Who do you trust? Polanski? Davey? Corbyn?

The same Ed Davey that served Cameron’s coalition and a party that reneged on its flagship policy in the election.

If you trust any politician, irrespective of what colour rosette they way on election day, it will end in disappointment.

True

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I doubt many people would trust Farage but you can see certainly why Johnson was far more popular than Starmer

Not for me but I can see why others yes

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If you trust any politician, irrespective of what colour rosette they way on election day, it will end in disappointment.

Well that's a pretty bleak outlook!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well that's a pretty bleak outlook!

I think I trusted Blair until marching against the Iraq war
I am far too trusting but I don’t think starmer has had a fair crack of the whip and if as a country we prefer a lying clown to a competent administrator woe to us

 

[Grendel]

I think I trusted Blair until marching against the Iraq war
I am far too trusting but I don’t think starmer has had a fair crack of the whip and if as a country we prefer a lying clown to a competent administrator woe to us

How does he seem competent to you?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How does he seem competent to you

I’m meaning before the pm job
Working hard at school then uni then rising to the role of dpp

Do you think he was just lucky?

I’m happy he’s made mistakes since he’s been pm

 

[SBAndy]

I think I trusted Blair until marching against the Iraq war
I am far too trusting but I don’t think starmer has had a fair crack of the whip and if as a country we prefer a lying clown to a competent administrator woe to us

I think with Starmer we’ve reached the “shit or get off the pot” stage. Just seems so meandering thus far.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think with Starmer we’ve reached the “shit or get off the pot” stage. Just seems so meandering thus far.

Never had a chance

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think I trusted Blair until marching against the Iraq war
I am far too trusting but I don’t think starmer has had a fair crack of the whip and if as a country we prefer a lying clown to a competent administrator woe to us

I still think a strong Labour government would deliver the best outcomes for the whole UK and do the most for national unity. Sadly it's been a good 20-25 years since one existed

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well that's a pretty bleak outlook!

Have you never heard the saying that ‘all political careers end in failure?’

I never knew that it was Enoch Powell who apparently first coined that phrase.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I still think a strong Labour government would deliver the best outcomes for the whole UK and do the most for national unity. Sadly it's been a good 20-25 years since one existed

The Labour Party is from a bygone era. Back in Blair’s years you had genuinely working class MPs who were generally small ‘c’ conservative socially but economically socialist.

The takeover of the Labour Party by the metropolitan elite has its downfall. I strongly doubt the Brexit voting blue collar worker will ever return to the Labour Party. The party has despised this kind of voter since the 2000s and historians will look at Brown’s “bigoted woman” comment as the beginning of the end.

Paul Embery covered this v well in his book ‘Despised’.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I still think a strong Labour government would deliver the best outcomes for the whole UK and do the most for national unity. Sadly it's been a good 20-25 years since one existed

19 years of the 20th century was a labour government
It’s probably cause they’re always not up to scratch

 

[Evo1883]

Doesnt benefit me at all voting for farage , once hes done talking about immigration hes pretty much got nothing else to say .

I know alot of people who wax lyrical about the bloke , but ultimately you get the feeling its like turkeys voting for christmas with many of them working in the public sector .

Brexit has been a disaster and something we ideally would get to vote on again in the future

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Labour Party is from a bygone era. Back in Blair’s years you had genuinely working class MPs who were generally small ‘c’ conservative socially but economically socialist.

The takeover of the Labour Party by the metropolitan elite has its downfall. I strongly doubt the Brexit voting blue collar worker will ever return to the Labour Party. The party has despised this kind of voter since the 2000s and historians will look at Brown’s “bigoted woman” comment as the beginning of the end.

Paul Embery covered this v well in his book ‘Despised’.

Is that a recent book? Worth a read?

 

[wingy]

The Labour Party is from a bygone era. Back in Blair’s years you had genuinely working class MPs who were generally small ‘c’ conservative socially but economically socialist.

The takeover of the Labour Party by the metropolitan elite has its downfall. I strongly doubt the Brexit voting blue collar worker will ever return to the Labour Party. The party has despised this kind of voter since the 2000s and historians will look at Brown’s “bigoted woman” comment as the beginning of the end.

Paul Embery covered this v well in his book ‘Despised’.

How did that quote come about again,by that I mean why?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The Labour Party is from a bygone era. Back in Blair’s years you had genuinely working class MPs who were generally small ‘c’ conservative socially but economically socialist.

The takeover of the Labour Party by the metropolitan elite has its downfall. I strongly doubt the Brexit voting blue collar worker will ever return to the Labour Party. The party has despised this kind of voter since the 2000s and historians will look at Brown’s “bigoted woman” comment as the beginning of the end.

Paul Embery covered this v well in his book ‘Despised’.

You say that, Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 accepted Brexit and got over 40% of the vote running on left wing populism.

What has always ground my gears is that Labour sacrificed itself in Scotland to keep the union intact, and has been portrayed as an unpatriotic party ever since. When the truth is that the Conservative and Unionist Party have done more to destabilise the union than Sinn Fein, the SNP or Plaid Cymru put together ever have.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Is that a recent book? Worth a read?

Published in 2020, I liked it but Paul Embery was my gateway drug to more conservative thinking.

Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class: Amazon.co.uk: Embery, Paul: 9781509539994: Books

Buy Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class 1 by Embery, Paul (ISBN: 9781509539994) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

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You say that, Jeremy Corbyn in 2017 accepted Brexit and got over 40% of the vote running on left wing populism.

What has always ground my gears is that Labour sacrificed itself in Scotland to keep the union intact, and has been portrayed as an unpatriotic party ever since. When the truth is that the Conservative and Unionist Party have done more to destabilise the union than Sinn Fein, the SNP or Plaid Cymru put together ever have.

Labour needs Scottish MPs to form a majority government, it makes total sense for them to ‘save the union’.

In the 2010s, Labour got caught in the middle of 2 great big constitutions

In 2017, the issue on immigration was seen to be ‘resolved’ because after Brexit, there would be an ‘Australia style points system’ and we could control the border. Johnson and his predecessors absolutely failed in this.

I’ve followed what Dominic Cummings said about the Johnson government post-Vote Leave departure and I agree that this is what revived Farage/BP/Reform because that government departed from the 2020 manifesto.

Cummings is like an ex from hell but I don’t doubt his the fundamental message of his accounts. He alleges that McSweeney and the Starmer government are largely coming to the same conclusion conclusions he did. Take that with a pinch of salt but it explains a lot when looking into how this government functions.

Anyway, back to Corbyn, if he was leader of the opposition or PM, the forces at play are beyond his control. He’d poll v well in London and other metropolitan areas so to some extent would consolidate the ‘progressive bloc’ but even in 2017, Labour lost in Mansfield and another Labour stronghold in Stoke-on-Trent or Walsall (iirc) so the precursor to 2019 was there. He wouldn’t fair well in places like Wrexham, Coventry, Hartlepool and so on.

Broader picture and looking into a ‘crystal ball’… Reform wins the next election and if they implement their policies and are successful with ‘securing the border’ an economically left wing opposition would beat Farage after 1 term if they promised to keep those policies in place.

Looking at some of Reform’s polling numbers, it strikes me as an unstable electoral coalition. A lot of welfare dependency, low income areas (look at where they won seats in 2024) but are hoovering up the ‘Brexit’ vote. This is why Farage is quite contradictory on economic policy at times.

 

[Grendel]

19 years of the 20th century was a labour government
It’s probably cause they’re always not up to scratch

Well they were not really able to get elected until the 1920's - the war was coalition really.

Labour destroyed itself in the 70's

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well they were not really able to get elected until the 1920's - the war was coalition really.

Labour destroyed itself in the 70's

Then arose from the ashes in the last 90’s

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Labour needs Scottish MPs to form a majority government, it makes total sense for them to ‘save the union’.

I should think that any party which stands across Britain would give more of a shit about the union, unless actually what you're suggesting is we should pack it all in.

 

[Grendel]

Then arose from the ashes in the last 90’s

Ah yes with the hard left Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair - almost as liberal as Alexander Boris De Pleffel Johnson - but less so. The only difference was that Blair had the sense to realise his lack of intellect and attention span and appointed a chancellor with a brain. Starmer has employed an inept retard abd comtinues to back the imbecile.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ah yes with the hard left Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair - almost as liberal as Alexander Boris De Pleffel Johnson - but less so. The only difference was that Blair had the sense to realise his lack of intellect and attention span and appointed a chancellor with a brain. Starmer has employed an inept retard abd comtinues to back the imbecile.

Harsh

 

[Grendel]

Harsh

True. She is shit.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I should think that any party which stands across Britain would give more of a shit about the union, unless actually what you're suggesting is we should pack it all in.

Not at all, far from breaking up the Union, Brexit was implicitly saved it. The nationalists in Scotland and Wales can’t credibly argue that they’ll join the EU because that would mean hard borders with England. Which is just not realistic.

NI will probably be lost, with or without Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

Reeves is the most incompetent chancellor I can recall. The fact Starmer continues to suck up to her shows his own failings.

 

[Grendel]

Of course one thing is for certain. If Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair was PM he’d be sucking up to The Donald like no tomorrow.

You only have to look how he dribbled over George Dubya Bush to agree with that. Two brain cells meet and unite.