Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

[TomRad85]

Weirdly, this has not been covered in this thread, but it is pretty interesting given the upset regarding Palestine Action. There are also some videos floating around of this counter protest and lots of people in masks. One clip from a poor guy trying to offer his support really is awkward:

UKIP banned from protesting in Tower Hamlets over disorder fears

Police say any UKIP members assembling in the area, which has a high Muslim population, face arrest.

www.bbc.com

Incredible really. It's almost too perfect isn't it. The idiot still won't get it though.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

The government needs to find other ways to resolve issues in the long term. Being flexible with wage thresholds for some sectors with shortages is rational as a temporary measure. That isn’t happening in the UK, in some cases (like the NHS), it’s created a dependency on imported labour by not having any medium to long term planning.

Take social care, there’s a huge level of staff turnover in that industry and once you admit entry to people, it’s a laborious and costly task removing them if they’re in violation of their visa conditions. With this visa route specifically in mind, the numbers do not add up and there is fraud and thousands of people living in the UK in violation of their visa conditions.

On a broader scale, the purpose of an immigration system to be selective of desirable characteristics, to be clear, net tax contributors. If people are going to be in low income work, get ILR after 5 years (and eligible for welfare) and be eligible a UK pension, that isn’t desirable for the UK taxpayer.

Following on my reply to Fernando, the receipts to ‘foreign-born’ households has nearly doubled from 2022 and this is without the ‘Boriswave’ migrants, yet to receive ILR.

It's just that the government will talk freely about energy insecurity stemming from importing too much of our energy from abroad, food insecurity from relying on food imports and so on, but not an insecurity of labour stemming from relying on both skilled and unskilled foreign labour.

We need to move towards a more home-grown workforce.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's just that the government will talk freely about energy insecurity stemming from importing too much of our energy from abroad, food insecurity from relying on food imports and so on, but not an insecurity of labour stemming from relying on both skilled and unskilled foreign labour.

We need to move towards a more home-grown workforce.

Exactly! This is a traditional trade unionist position.

I’m uncomfortable that the political left (Labour, Greens and Lib Dem) have ceded ground to the Tories and Reform. The reason for this is because it’s an issue that risks ending up being a political football and any changes Reform/Tory make immediately reversed and vice versa.

It’s an issue that needs a new consensus. The reason I talk about immigration on here more than other issues is because there is common ground to strike between left and right.

On economic stuff, policies can take years before its impacts are revealed.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly! This is a traditional trade unionist position.

I’m uncomfortable that the political left (Labour, Greens and Lib Dem) have ceded ground to the Tories and Reform. The reason for this is because it’s an issue that risks ending up being a political football and any changes Reform/Tory make immediately reversed and vice versa.

It’s an issue that needs a new consensus. The reason I talk about immigration on here more than other issues is because there is common ground to strike between left and right.

On economic stuff, policies can take years before its impacts are revealed.

I personally think there's common ground on the absurdly high cost of living, but that's for another day.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I personally think there's common ground on the absurdly high cost of living, but that's for another day.

True, but how you actually go about fixing that is complex.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

True, but how you actually go about fixing that is complex.

I agree, but this is why I feel that the likes of Reform have leapt on immigration because it looks like a quick fix and doesn't require much heavy thinking or as difficult a sell to the electorate. Tackling the cost of living is complicated, would take time to manifest itself but would in my view be far more impactful on a typical person.

Just my opinion of course and for a separate discussion.

 

[Captain Dart]

Streeting is absolutely right
I never thought I’d see the day when it was ok to say these things again.
shame on us

Reform MP Sarah Pochin's comments about adverts were 'racist', Wes Streeting says

Sarah Pochin apologises for saying "it drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people".

www.bbc.co.uk

This whole thing is about social programming, particularly of young people.
Like the BBC featuring black soldiers at the battle of Hastings etc. etc.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This whole thing is about social programming, particularly of young people.
Like the BBC featuring black soldiers at the battle of Hastings etc. etc.

The colour of skin doesn’t matter when will we learn

 

[SBT]

This whole thing is about social programming, particularly of young people.
Like the BBC featuring black soldiers at the battle of Hastings etc. etc.

There weren’t any soldiers speaking modern English at the Battle of Hastings either.

Adverts and TV dramas do what they need to do in order to be most compelling to their intended audience. I’m not sure how or why “social programming” would come into it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This whole thing is about social programming, particularly of young people.
Like the BBC featuring black soldiers at the battle of Hastings etc. etc.

There’s a double standard. It would be ridiculous to do a series or movie on MLK or Mandela and have random white play them. So why would Hollywood depict historical figures like Cleopatra, Queen Charlotte and few other characters in films in Medieval Europe and so on as black?

It’s also incredibly patronising that Hollywood feels the need to rewrite ‘western’ history when there’s no shortage of interesting African/African-American characters throughout history.

How this guy does not have a film is beyond me:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/thrilling-tale-how-robert-smalls-heroically-sailed-stolen-confederate-ship-freedom-180963689/

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The colour of skin doesn’t matter when will we learn

Actually, it does because it’s rewriting our history to something that it’s not. How ridiculous would it be if we redid Roots and presented the horrors of the transatlantic slave trade as being a mixture of white, black, brown or Asian victims.

It’s unacceptable to depict historical characters like Ghandi, MLK, Mandela, Mao. In fact, the Disney+ series Shogun didn’t randomly switch out Japanese characters for random non-Japanese actors because it would be an insult.

It also breaks the immersion of the word it’s depicting imo.

 

[SBT]

There’s a double standard. It would be ridiculous to do a series or movie on MLK or Mandela and have random white play them. So why would Hollywood depict historical figures like Cleopatra, Queen Charlotte and few other characters in films in Medieval Europe and so on as black?

I don’t know, it feels like racial identity is a slightly more pertinent detail to the stories of Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela than for the other people you mentioned.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don’t know, it feels like racial identity is a slightly more pertinent detail to the stories of Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela than for the other people you mentioned.

Why?

Let’s play devils advocate…

Would the message not be fundamentally the same if you swap the historical contexts and racial identities? That being Apartheid being a white majority excluded by a black colonial settlers or white people living under Jim Crow in the USA.

The answer is simple: it’s ridiculous because history is non-fiction and shouldn’t change the fundamental facts of the people and societies they live in.

I’ll accept I’m a stickler for detail on this because it annoyed me that in ‘Catherine The Great’, Helen Mirren plays a character who starts off in their mid to late 30s and dies in their late 60s, same actor and they look the same.

 

[SBT]

The answer is simple: it’s ridiculous because history is non-fiction and shouldn’t change the fundamental facts of the people and societies they live in.

Fictionalised versions of histories are literally as old as time, it’s frankly bizarre that people are pretending that TV dramas or adverts have any obligation other than to entertain us and sell things to us.

 

[rob9872]

Actually, it does because it’s rewriting our history to something that it’s not. How ridiculous would it be if we redid Roots and presented the horrors of the transatlantic slave trade as being a mixture of white, black, brown or Asian victims.

It’s unacceptable to depict historical characters like Ghandi, MLK, Mandela, Mao. In fact, the Disney+ series Shogun didn’t randomly switch out Japanese characters for random non-Japanese actors because it would be an insult.

It also breaks the immersion of the word it’s depicting imo.

Ben Kingsley is only half Indian/half English, but he is the most famous Ghandi actor.

Not saying your wrong btw, just pointing out it has happened for a long time.