Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

25% less likely to die is a claim ……

It's a lie, there is 100% chance all patients will die, the real questions should be about how long will they live in good health and be of benefit to society and how can they support themselves financially without draining the public purse.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yep, nothing to do with the poor doctors prescribing, or the unhealthy, lazy individual, or the BMA that negotiated the mess of the GP contracts under Blair. Where’s the responsibility or accountability ???

I read this recently

‘90 per cent of surgeries have now abolished the old “list” system, in which each GP was dedicated to their own list of patients. The BMA thought this change was a great triumph of negotiation but it has turned out to be a disastrous mistake.

A study of more than four million patients in Norway found that people who see the same GP regularly are 28 per cent less likely to go to hospital and 25 per cent less likely to die. If a doctor knows you and your family, they are far less likely to get a diagnosis wrong. The best way to keep us healthy and out of hospital is if someone has responsibility to make that happen. But if patients become like anonymous call centre customers, the reverse is true’

ps i do also find the pushing of prescriptions drugs for everything pretty disgraceful. The final call is the doctors though

For my insomnia, the options the GP gave were either pills or to join a big waiting list for CBT. I opted for the pills, worked for a while then I got used to the dose and they don’t work anymore. So in light of having enough humans to offer a service, the pills will always win.

As for personal responsibility, in this country we seem to make it so easy to get obese yet berate people for succumbing. Workplace culture of offering cake and biscuits, big portions in the shop/restaurant/takeout, high calorie food from when the country did more manual work, ‘always finish your plate’ etc etc. As someone who has tried to and did lose a lot of weight on his own, it struck me how difficult it is every day to eat responsibly when we have so many societal pressures/incentives not to.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

To take it as a very rough mental health marker that can’t be cheated suïcide stats don’t really support the idea of a mental health crisis tbh

View attachment 44347

A definite flattening and slight rise post 200& but still only at sort of turn of the century levels.

Certainly doesn’t justify the uptick in the 18-24 years claiming sickness benefit because of mental issues.

A government handout doesn’t fix these issues, but more pertinently, the idea of a comprehensive welfare state only works if people are putting in more than they are taking out. 18-24 year olds are the cohort that need to be working and paying tax rather than dipping their hands in the system from Day 1. Entrapping a generation to a life on state benefits is not empathetic.

Everything is interlinked, an overwhelmed NHS means that GPs are overburdened and probably not able to give face-to-face interviews before writing sick notes. The Telegraph also uncovered unscrupulous websites that offered doctor’s note as part of a ‘subscription’.

Ironically, people who are resistant to welfare reform run the risk of everything collapsing as the state is just unable to keep up with the mounting costs.

 

[mmttww]

Reform UK selects 18-year-old to run £2bn Warwickshire County Council

Reform UK has selected George Finch to lead Warwickshire County Council on a permanent basis.

www.bbc.co.uk

Hide those flags, people! He's here to stay! jfc

 

[wingy]

For my insomnia, the options the GP gave were either pills or to join a big waiting list for CBT. I opted for the pills, worked for a while then I got used to the dose and they don’t work anymore. So in light of having enough humans to offer a service, the pills will always win.

As for personal responsibility, in this country we seem to make it so easy to get obese yet berate people for succumbing. Workplace culture of offering cake and biscuits, big portions in the shop/restaurant/takeout, high calorie food from when the country did more manual work, ‘always finish your plate’ etc etc. As someone who has tried to and did lose a lot of weight on his own, it struck me how difficult it is every day to eat responsibly when we have so many societal pressures/incentives not to.

It's choice as well when thinking genuinely, what chance are really.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's choice as well when thinking genuinely, what chance are really.

What do you mean mate?

 

[wingy]

What do you mean mate?

That the options are stacked against everyone in fact, I take your point about the old workplace canteen.

 

[shmmeee]

Certainly doesn’t justify the uptick in the 18-24 years claiming sickness benefit because of mental issues.

A government handout doesn’t fix these issues, but more pertinently, the idea of a comprehensive welfare state only works if people are putting in more than they are taking out. 18-24 year olds are the cohort that need to be working and paying tax rather than dipping their hands in the system from Day 1. Entrapping a generation to a life on state benefits is not empathetic.

Everything is interlinked, an overwhelmed NHS means that GPs are overburdened and probably not able to give face-to-face interviews before writing sick notes. The Telegraph also uncovered unscrupulous websites that offered doctor’s note as part of a ‘subscription’.

Ironically, people who are resistant to welfare reform run the risk of everything collapsing as the state is just unable to keep up with the mounting costs.

I think there’s several factors at play here.

There are definite mental health impacts from social media and modern teenage lifestyles IMO. Also there is so much more narrative for someone who either genuinely or otherwise thinks they have an issue and a trend of self diagnosis.

There’s also a massive massive under diagnosis and a huge lack of understanding of how to treat what might be termed diseases on the lighter end of the spectrum. Combined with the fact that like any labour intensive area therapy is expensive and hard to ensure quality at scale.

i think to steel man a little bit the end goal is a removal of “disability” as a hard line between cans and can’ts and treat people as individuals with individual needs. But that just doesn’t scale to a state level, despite being great advice for daily interactions with people. At some point saying “hey man autism/anxiety/depression/adhd can look like anything” is essentially useless and you’re back to where we started without any of the labels

 

[Sick Boy]

For my insomnia, the options the GP gave were either pills or to join a big waiting list for CBT. I opted for the pills, worked for a while then I got used to the dose and they don’t work anymore. So in light of having enough humans to offer a service, the pills will always win.

As for personal responsibility, in this country we seem to make it so easy to get obese yet berate people for succumbing. Workplace culture of offering cake and biscuits, big portions in the shop/restaurant/takeout, high calorie food from when the country did more manual work, ‘always finish your plate’ etc etc. As someone who has tried to and did lose a lot of weight on his own, it struck me how difficult it is every day to eat responsibly when we have so many societal pressures/incentives not to.

Last time I was over, in multiple places I went to eat I seemed to be offered chips/fries with everything, as is the case in America. It also seems to be difficult to get anything that’s not processed if you just want a snack of some kind.

For the sleep, try to get some melatonin online.

 

[shmmeee]

Agree, which is why putting all extra cash into the nhs, when a relatively small proportion of it could make a far bigger difference if it went into social care, seems crazy to me.* Also why I think what the BMA/resident doctors (likely followed by consultants etc) are doing is totally unacceptable - theyll be happy to use up the extra cash with no material improvement to the nhs or patients


*it would also help reduce some of the bed blocking issue which in turn helps nhs capacity.

It’s the same argument though “oh take from here and shift around there” deckchairs on the titanic without a shift in understanding of how we’ve got to shift taxes on working people to pay for ultimately their own care later in life (even if that’s not how it actually works).

We’ve got a generation with little property or pension wealth fast coming down the tracks towards retirement too. And a complete lottery of inheritance to decide who gets it, both in terms of class and late life illness, that’s if they haven’t already retired before their parents die.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Last time I was over, in multiple places I went to eat I seemed to be offered chips/fries with everything, as is the case in America. It also seems to be difficult to get anything that’s not processed if you just want a snack of some kind.

For the sleep, try to get some melatonin online.

I shifted from eating a large amount of processed food, to barely any at all and I sleep like a baby now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That the options are stacked against everyone in fact, I take your point about the old workplace canteen.

We used to do a lot more physical work in this country, so having fish and chips, calorie dense puddings etc was fine as you were burning it off. Then the country shifted to much more sedentary work but the food remained and the portion size increased.

Case in point Mrs BSB’s dad was a builder for 30 years until his hip gave in. Now he’s stopped, he’s putting on lots of weight by eating the same stuff he did before.

 

[shmmeee]

Last time I was over, in multiple places I went to eat I seemed to be offered chips/fries with everything, as is the case in America. It also seems to be difficult to get anything that’s not processed if you just want a snack of some kind.

For the sleep, try to get some melatonin online.

The options are hilariously bad in any pub type food place. When I was no carb my options were basically a sad salad everywhere in place of chips.

I eat so much better when I visit the continent without even trying it’s not funny.

 

[shmmeee]

I do wonder if low carb works in Mediterranean societies. It always felt like its main benefit was that if I was hungry I just couldn’t buy any snacks outside of a supermarket.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Last time I was over, in multiple places I went to eat I seemed to be offered chips/fries with everything, as is the case in America. It also seems to be difficult to get anything that’s not processed if you just want a snack of some kind.

For the sleep, try to get some melatonin online.

Will look into the melatonin. When we were in Italy a few years ago, the portion of pasta they offer looks about half of what we’d call a portion in this country. In Germany a Stein of beer lasts you the whole evening, in this country people turn it into a contest.

We have these societal hangovers from when food was less readily available and when we did more exercise.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do wonder if low carb works in Mediterranean societies. It always felt like its main benefit was that if I was hungry I just couldn’t buy any snacks outside of a supermarket.

The best I’ve ever felt eating wise was in Greece. Meat, fruit and veg all locally grown and sensible portion sizes. No surprise it’s one of the healthiest diets in the world.

 

[Sick Boy]

Will look into the melatonin. When we were in Italy a few years ago, the portion of pasta they offer looks about half of what we’d call a portion in this country. In Germany a Stein of beer lasts you the whole evening, in this country people turn it into a contest.

We have these societal hangovers from when food was less readily available and when we did more exercise.

Yeah portion sizes are a problem as well. Most of the time in the UK pasta portions are 2-3 times bigger.

 

[Sick Boy]

I do wonder if low carb works in Mediterranean societies. It always felt like its main benefit was that if I was hungry I just couldn’t buy any snacks outside of a supermarket.

It’s portion sizes rather than carbs that are the problem, IMO - unless we’re talking stuff like processed bread.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s portion sizes rather than carbs that are the problem, IMO - unless we’re talking stuff like processed bread.

Potatoes are pretty nutritious and filling, but not when they’re chipped and deep fried.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Potatoes are pretty nutritious and filling, but not when they’re chipped and deep fried.

Yep potatoes top on the satiation index for carbs

 

[Grendel]

I’m afraid some of the stats really don’t back up what’s being said here.

Diabetes is a big drain and an indicator of ooor health. Spain and Portugal have 3 times the rate of the UK. Italy spends far more on treatment per capita than most other European countries. Germany is worse - its diet is incredibly unhealthy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m afraid some of the stats really don’t back up what’s being said here.

Diabetes is a big drain and an indicator of ooor health. Spain and Portugal have 3 times the rate of the UK. Italy spends far more on treatment per capita than most other European countries. Germany is worse - its diet is incredibly unhealthy.

How does life expectancy compare between these countries?

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m afraid some of the stats really don’t back up what’s being said here.

Diabetes is a big drain and an indicator of ooor health. Spain and Portugal have 3 times the rate of the UK. Italy spends far more on treatment per capita than most other European countries. Germany is worse - its diet is incredibly unhealthy.

Italy’s population is amongst the oldest in the world.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I’m afraid some of the stats really don’t back up what’s being said here.

Diabetes is a big drain and an indicator of ooor health. Spain and Portugal have 3 times the rate of the UK. Italy spends far more on treatment per capita than most other European countries. Germany is worse - its diet is incredibly unhealthy.

We are the 10th most obese country in Europe and more obese than all those mentioned.

 

[Grendel]

How does life expectancy compare between these countries?

Little diffeeence across Western Europe between 81 and 83

 

[Grendel]

We are the 10th most obese country in Europe and more obese than all those mentioned.

it’s still related to death and an indicator of poor diet

 

[Ccfcisparks]

it’s still related to death and an indicator of poor diet

I'd say Obesity is the biggest indicator of a poor diet.

 

[Captain Dart]

For my insomnia, the options the GP gave were either pills or to join a big waiting list for CBT. I opted for the pills, worked for a while then I got used to the dose and they don’t work anymore. So in light of having enough humans to offer a service, the pills will always win.

As for personal responsibility, in this country we seem to make it so easy to get obese yet berate people for succumbing. Workplace culture of offering cake and biscuits, big portions in the shop/restaurant/takeout, high calorie food from when the country did more manual work, ‘always finish your plate’ etc etc. As someone who has tried to and did lose a lot of weight on his own, it struck me how difficult it is every day to eat responsibly when we have so many societal pressures/incentives not to.

You are beginning to understand.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Little diffeeence across Western Europe between 81 and 83

Italy, France and Spain are about 2.5 years longer than us and among the world top 10-15. We’re around 40th

 

[Nick]

We used to do a lot more physical work in this country, so having fish and chips, calorie dense puddings etc was fine as you were burning it off. Then the country shifted to much more sedentary work but the food remained and the portion size increased.

Case in point Mrs BSB’s dad was a builder for 30 years until his hip gave in. Now he’s stopped, he’s putting on lots of weight by eating the same stuff he did before.

Surely that's common sense though? If he eats the same but isn't doing the same physical graft then that's going to happen.

 

[CCFCSteve]

For my insomnia, the options the GP gave were either pills or to join a big waiting list for CBT. I opted for the pills, worked for a while then I got used to the dose and they don’t work anymore. So in light of having enough humans to offer a service, the pills will always win.

As for personal responsibility, in this country we seem to make it so easy to get obese yet berate people for succumbing. Workplace culture of offering cake and biscuits, big portions in the shop/restaurant/takeout, high calorie food from when the country did more manual work, ‘always finish your plate’ etc etc. As someone who has tried to and did lose a lot of weight on his own, it struck me how difficult it is every day to eat responsibly when we have so many societal pressures/incentives not to.

My point wasn’t that it’s everyone’s own fault, many people need prescription drugs for a variety of reasons, I was more responding to SBDs comment that it’s ‘the systems’ fault, when I think it’s a lot of individual factors within the system inc peoples behaviours in some instances. For example I think anyone under 25 seeing a doc for anxiety/depression/ADHD etc should have smart phone switched to a standard mobile for a period of time (couple of months), in conjunction with any additional treatment. Not saying it would work in every case but would be interested to see the results

Well done with the losing weight by the way. It’s not easy so you should be proud of yourself. But you’ve also kind of supported my point, however hard it was you took personal responsibility, tried to address the problem and did

Sorry to hear you’re still having issues with insomnia

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s the same argument though “oh take from here and shift around there” deckchairs on the titanic without a shift in understanding of how we’ve got to shift taxes on working people to pay for ultimately their own care later in life (even if that’s not how it actually works).

We’ve got a generation with little property or pension wealth fast coming down the tracks towards retirement too. And a complete lottery of inheritance to decide who gets it, both in terms of class and late life illness, that’s if they haven’t already retired before their parents die.

Agreed, Ive also said many times before I think everyone needs to accept we need to pay more tax. Where we might differ is I think we also need to spend it more wisely as well

 

[fatso]

Italy, France and Spain are about 2.5 years longer than us and among the world top 10-15. We’re around 40th

The weather there is better and they work less hours, (according to the unions) their health professionals are better, (our Dr's are prescribers not doctors) and of course their attitude to drinking is different.

There are many many factors that can make a big difference.

 

[Sick Boy]

The weather there is better and they work less hours, (according to the unions) their health professionals are better, (our Dr's are prescribers not doctors) and of course their attitude to drinking is different.

There are many many factors that can make a big difference.

The standard working week in Italy is 40 hours.

 

[fatso]

Agreed, Ive also said many times before I think everyone needs to accept we need to pay more tax. Where we might differ is I think we also need to spend it more wisely as well

Massively increasing the defence budget while capping child benefit and stopping the winter fuel allowance and cutting welfare payments is totally immoral.

Who the fuck prioritises bombs and bullets over caring for those in need???

We dont need to pay more tax, we need to prioritise spending where it's needed. And stop throwing billions away on BS projects.