Do you want to discuss boring politics? (24 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

When people talk about average train driver pay you have to factor in that you're talking about an industry which has built up an operational model entirely reliant on overtime.

There is a massive shortage of drivers. Anyone who uses the trains regularly will be able to tell you about cancellations due to there being no available driver.

But here's the problem. Being a train driver can't be that hard right? Well if you look into the training there's far more to it than you might expect, largely because drivers are responsible for a huge percentage of train safety checks. But if that doesn't put you off and you want to apply for a trainee driver place you're going to hit a problem, they are virtually non-existent.

TOCs don't want to pay the cost of training new drivers, so unless you have the money to put yourself through private training you're fucked. So we have a very limited number of new drivers coming into the industry while the older drivers are retiring. Therefore the pool of available staff are being asked to work additional hours, for which they are rightly paid, and people then complain that drivers are paid too much.

The proposed solution to this is not, as you may think, to recruit and train more drivers, its to expect existing drivers to accept new contracts that restrict the amount they are paid in overtime.

Also important when talking about potential rail strikes to distinguish between strikes purely over pay and strikes over proposals to reduce safety standards. The later is something we implemented in the past and led to an increase in 'incidents' so the idea we do it again under the guise of modernisation seems crazy.

I tried to become a train driver when I retrained after teaching, seemed chill and decent benefits. Didn’t even come close to getting an interview for training.

 

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[shmmeee]

But its not like those claiming mental health issues in the 18-24 age bracket are making it up. Unless you think the huge increase in things like self harm and suicide attempts are just so they can claim benefits, which I find unlikely.

You can't remove funding for mental health services and then stand around scratching your head wondering what is going on when there's more people with mental health issues!

The key to getting people off benefits is having people fit & healthy. You do that by properly funding services, you don't magically cure them by removing benefits.

The only reason they are highlighting certain circumstances is to mislead, to give the impression they are the norm when for most people the benefits cap would limit them to £14,753 or, £22,020 for couples & lone parents.

I am absolutely fine with seriously ill people receiving assistance. If there is a significant issue with people fraudulently claiming then sort that issue out. Don't point the finger at those genuinely in a bad way and make them out to be not worthy of a very basic standard of living.

To take it as a very rough mental health marker that can’t be cheated suïcide stats don’t really support the idea of a mental health crisis tbh



A definite flattening and slight rise post 200& but still only at sort of turn of the century levels.

 

[wingy]

To take it as a very rough mental health marker that can’t be cheated suïcide stats don’t really support the idea of a mental health crisis tbh

View attachment 44347

A definite flattening and slight rise post 200& but still only at sort of turn of the century levels.

The 20th?🫣

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To take it as a very rough mental health marker that can’t be cheated suïcide stats don’t really support the idea of a mental health crisis tbh

View attachment 44347

A definite flattening and slight rise post 200& but still only at sort of turn of the century levels.

What is meant by age standardised?

 

[shmmeee]

What is meant by age standardised?

IIRC age is a significant variable in suicide risk so as the populations age changes so does its likely suicide risk this controls for that. I’ll see if I can find a proper explanation.

 

[shmmeee]

 

[chiefdave]

To take it as a very rough mental health marker that can’t be cheated suïcide stats don’t really support the idea of a mental health crisis tbh

View attachment 44347

A definite flattening and slight rise post 200& but still only at sort of turn of the century levels.

From the same report:

there have been concerning increases among children and young people over recent years. The UK government has committed to reducing the number of deaths by suicide, with children and young people identified as a priority group for support in the national suicide prevention strategy for England.

Self-harm hospital admissions up 22% for children aged eight to 17

Eight to 17-year-olds now make up the single largest group for self-harm hospital admissions.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nick]

It's a bit naive to say people aren't blagging the benefits by claiming Anxiety, same as getting Motability.

Of course there are going to be people who can't physically work because of their mental health, on the other hand let's not pretend people don't rinse it.

 

[shmmeee]

From the same report:

Self-harm hospital admissions up 22% for children aged eight to 17

Eight to 17-year-olds now make up the single largest group for self-harm hospital admissions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah there’s absolutely a rise that’s bucking the trend of decades of improvement. But it’s not where it was not too long ago is my point so we shouldn’t be seeing huge impacts compared to then.

 

[chiefdave]

It's a bit naive to say people aren't blagging the benefits by claiming Anxiety, same as getting Motability.

Address the problem of fraudulent claims rather than saying we're taking benefits off everyone and that will force people back to work.

There's not an easy fix here. We've had years of cutting everything and now we're seeing the impact.

Its just another 'stop the boats' type thing that people are being fooled into thing there's someone to blame rather than the system itself being fucked.

 

[Nick]

Address the problem of fraudulent claims rather than saying we're taking benefits off everyone and that will force people back to work.

There's not an easy fix here. We've had years of cutting everything and now we're seeing the impact.

Its just another 'stop the boats' type thing that people are being fooled into thing there's someone to blame rather than the system itself being fucked.

I totally agree. Don't remove it from everybody because of some.

 

[rob9872]

I totally agree. Don't remove it from everybody because of some.

I know a lad, well he's 40s now, who has never worked a day in his life. Diagnosed with ME and says he could fall asleep at any time and has low energy. He's a City fan, goes to the pub regularly, plays pool, goes to concerts, never seen him actually fall asleep. Gets a car subsidised now too. Boils my piss tbh. I understand why he couldnt work with machinery but no way is an office job beyond him. Well aware he's only one example and others shouldn't lose their ability to claim because of people like him, but it does make you wonder how many there are, as it's 100% he's not the only one.

 

[SBAndy]

It's a bit naive to say people aren't blagging the benefits by claiming Anxiety, same as getting Motability.

Of course there are going to be people who can't physically work because of their mental health, on the other hand let's not pretend people don't rinse it.

So, you’re in control of the purse strings: how are you figuring out which cases are genuine and which are blagging it?

 

[Grendel]

So, you’re in control of the purse strings: how are you figuring out which cases are genuine and which are blagging it?

To be fair if we are looking at who controls purse strings would anyone literally give what every public sector union demands in a pay rise?

 

[shmmeee]

I know a lad, well he's 40s now, who has never worked a day in his life. Diagnosed with ME and says he could fall asleep at any time and has low energy. He's a City fan, goes to the pub regularly, plays pool, goes to concerts, never seen him actually fall asleep. Gets a car subsidised now too. Boils my piss tbh. I understand why he couldnt work with machinery but no way is an office job beyond him. Well aware he's only one example and others shouldn't lose their ability to claim because of people like him, but it does make you wonder how many there are, as it's 100% he's not the only one.

 

[Nick]

So, you’re in control of the purse strings: how are you figuring out which cases are genuine and which are blagging it?

Spot checking. Social media checks (a random one) Employ more people to check for fraud. Better people doing assessments. Check to see what the people are doing to help themselves. Check appointments are being attended etc.

I mean who's signing off giving pip / a notability car to somebody with tennis elbow?

It would save money by cutting down on fraud cases.

 

[shmmeee]

Spot checking. Social media checks (a tendon. Employ more people to check for fraud. Better people doing assessments. Check to see what the people are doing to help themselves. Check appointments are being attended etc.

I mean who's signing off giving pip / a notability car to somebody with tennis elbow?

It would save money by cutting down on fraud cases.

We do all that don’t we? I don’t get it. It’s like awful parking and cars that are clearly illegal annd dodgy e-bikes and dodgy tax front shops and a million other things it seems everyone can see it happening and officials can’t do anything about it.

 

[tisza]

Spot checking. Social media checks (a random one) Employ more people to check for fraud. Better people doing assessments. Check to see what the people are doing to help themselves. Check appointments are being attended etc.

I mean who's signing off giving pip / a notability car to somebody with tennis elbow?

It would save money by cutting down on fraud cases.

It's got too far past that point with the sheer number of claimants. Aren't enough qualified mental health professionals, GPs surgeries couldn't handle the number of appointments to keep checking on people, DWP doesn't have enough investigative staff (stats say they conducted 23000 investigations 2023/24) and so on.

 

[chiefdave]

We do all that don’t we? I don’t get it. It’s like awful parking and cars that are clearly illegal annd dodgy e-bikes and dodgy tax front shops and a million other things it seems everyone can see it happening and officials can’t do anything about it.

As with everything all the systems are overwhelmed so any checks are a box ticking exercise because nobody has time to do anymore.

Think about what happens if you go to your GP with mental health issues. Chances are they will dish out a pill and that's it. When I eventually got referred for a mental health assessment it was an 18 month wait just to get a phone assessment.

The bloke that did my assessment was so concerned that I was going to top myself, despite me telling him repeatedly that there wasn't a problem and I'd always felt like this, that I was 'fast tracked' for treatment. That involved getting a text every month telling me I was still on the waiting list for 2 years. So before you've even got to see anyone that's 3.5 years I could have been on the sick.

Then when I finally got 'treatment' it was some guy who was not a qualified therapist who had such a high workload he could never remember what had been said at the previous session. He would say we'd follow up on things the next session and they'd never get mentioned again.

Eventually I changed jobs and wasn't working from home and that was the end of treatment as they weren't able to offer anything out of work hours.

There's zero chance there's capacity in the system to do any sort of meaningful ongoing assessment of people so what you get is a third party company called in using completely unqualified people with targets to declare people fit for work.

 

[shmmeee]

As with everything all the systems are overwhelmed so any checks are a box ticking exercise because nobody has time to do anymore.

Think about what happens if you go to your GP with mental health issues. Chances are they will dish out a pill and that's it. When I eventually got referred for a mental health assessment it was an 18 month wait just to get a phone assessment.

The bloke that did my assessment was so concerned that I was going to top myself, despite me telling him repeatedly that there wasn't a problem and I'd always felt like this, that I was 'fast tracked' for treatment. That involved getting a text every month telling me I was still on the waiting list for 2 years. So before you've even got to see anyone that's 3.5 years I could have been on the sick.

Then when I finally got 'treatment' it was some guy who was not a qualified therapist who had such a high workload he could never remember what had been said at the previous session. He would say we'd follow up on things the next session and they'd never get mentioned again.

Eventually I changed jobs and wasn't working from home and that was the end of treatment as they weren't able to offer anything out of work hours.

There's zero chance there's capacity in the system to do any sort of meaningful ongoing assessment of people so what you get is a third party company called in using completely unqualified people with targets to declare people fit for work.

IAPT is a sick joke IME

 

[Sick Boy]

Tesco's were literally putting out job ads where the pay was in benefits

WTF.

 

[chiefdave]

Nice of Starmer to let the politics GCSE work experience come up with some policies for him.

Starmer says migrants arriving on small boats will be returned to France, in exchange for asylum seekers who have not tried to enter the UK illegally

 

[Captain Dart]

Nice of Starmer to let the politics GCSE work experience come up with some policies for him.

Starmer says migrants arriving on small boats will be returned to France, in exchange for asylum seekers who have not tried to enter the UK illegally

That might actually have a positive effect at stemming the tide if anyone crossing knows they will bounce back to France. However it is subcontracting the decision on asylum entitlement to a foreign country who has no great love for the UK. I'd hope but doubt we have a veto on whoever is chosen in exchange by the French authorities. There is also the possibility that new boat arrivals abscond never to be seen again.

 

[shmmeee]

That might actually have a positive effect at stemming the tide if anyone crossing knows they will bounce back to France. However it is subcontracting the decision on asylum entitlement to a foreign country who has no great love for the UK. I'd hope but doubt we have a veto on whoever is chosen in exchange by the French authorities. There is also the possibility that new boat arrivals abscond never to be seen again.

We do have a veto, they’re still subject to normal checks:

UK and France agree major deal to crack down on illegal Channel crossings

The Prime Minister and French President Macron agree to return illegal migrants to France.

www.gov.uk

 

[Nick]

When are they being returned to France? As soon as they have been picked up?

 

[shmmeee]

When are they being returned to France? As soon as they have been picked up?

Once they’re deemed inadmissible. Not sure what that means. How many are picked up generally do we know?

 

[chiefdave]

Having a legal route will make far more impact. It was ridiculous to have no legal route into the country for people wanting to claim asylum.

Not sure if they're limiting the numbers who can claim via the legal route to the number they've stopped at sea. If so that slightly undermines it as if you end the boats you're back to no legal route in.

 

[shmmeee]

This has got a lot more detail:

What’s in the one-in-one-out migrant deal between the UK and France?

Macron and Starmer have agreed a deal aimed at preventing migrants crossing the English Channel in small boats.

www.aljazeera.com

Limited to two and a half thousand ish a year so about ten percent of crossings apparently. And only those who can prove a family connection.