Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Yes highlands of Scotland and Wales as well as Devon and Cornwall have enormous Job opportunities

You could fit millions into Australia - slight issue though

This would have been a right zinger before me and NW had a conversation clarifying how it would be done.

But you’re right, no jobs in Cornwall, so we’re unlikely to build there, more likely to increase density in the cities where the jobs are. As I said.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
In all fairness though has anyone changed their opinion of him or the time or anything else from the inquiry? They've all had time to prepare, so do you know anything that you fidnt already? I mean even I'll admit he didn't cover himself in glory during that time, but still maintain it was unprecedented circumstances and was going with many angles of advice. So for £100m spent on this, that could've even better used elsewhere and to ensure we're better prepared in future. Imo the contracts for PPE remain the biggest scandal and yet hanging Boris and Partygate still seem to be the focus.
Have to be certain consequences for derleliction of duty too. I'm in danger of going full Starmer, but even though Thatcher is exactly the kind of politics I despise, and I suspect I'd have hated the decisions she made during the pandemic, I could also have been sure she'd have turned up to meetings, listened to advice, read reports, and taken it Very. Seriously. Indeed.

And that's kind of what a PM should do! Would have been confident in Major, Blair, Brown, May all doing similar as well.

And yes, we all knew we elected a workshy buffoon who has no concept of anything other than his own ego, but it'll do no harm to point out just how terrible a PM he was for such a scenario, and if that makes people stop and consider whether they're electing someone off a soundbyte or because they're somebody who will actually bust a gut for their country, then it's worth it.

And PPE etc ties into the loose and woolly way Johnson ran government. Again, I bet Thatcher would have at least been aware what was happening, rather than just airily waving things through or not even noticing in the first place.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Would genuinely like to understand what people’s optimal population figure is. Exactly what it is now? What it was in 1900? What are we aiming for here if we can’t fit any more in?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Imo the contracts for PPE remain the biggest scandal
It’s up there. But you have to remember who controls the tone and why they give people like Michelle Mone a free pass. She comes from the same place as the Murdochs, the remaining Barclay brother and the Rothermeres. She’s one of them and they look after their own so have you distracted with things like boats and Rwanda. Same reason Sunak wrote off billions in covid fraud. Cronyism.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
It’s up there. But you have to remember who controls the tone and why they give people like Michelle Mone a free pass. She comes from the same place as the Murdochs, the remaining Barclay brother and the Rothermeres. She’s one of them and they look after their own so have you distracted with things like boats and Rwanda. Same reason Sunak wrote off billions in covid fraud. Cronyism.

Most of the covid fraud (bounceback/CBILS loans) relates to the poor lending processes. To be fair, it was desperate times and the government/British business bank were just desperate to get cash out to businesses to stop them all going bust. Typically though fraudsters and greedy fuckers took advantage of this. The PPE/contracts to businesses with no history in that area, who then didn’t deliver suitable kit was a disgrace. Isn’t Mone deal being investigated ? Hope people get sent down and/or made to repay the cash
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
This would have been a right zinger before me and NW had a conversation clarifying how it would be done.

But you’re right, no jobs in Cornwall, so we’re unlikely to build there, more likely to increase density in the cities where the jobs are. As I said.

Oh ok problem solved then
 

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
Not surprising I am, when I hear that we've "only built on a tiny tiny percentage of the country."

Compared to most countries in the world, we're over-densely populated. 152 per km2 in China btw, about a third of the density in England.
There are vast parts of China that really are not habitable.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Most of the covid fraud (bounceback/CBILS loans) relates to the poor lending processes. To be fair, it was desperate times and the government/British business bank were just desperate to get cash out to businesses to stop them all going bust. Typically though fraudsters and greedy fuckers took advantage of this. The PPE/contracts to businesses with no history in that area, who then didn’t deliver suitable kit was a disgrace. Isn’t Mone deal being investigated ? Hope people get sent down and/or made to repay the cash
But even the governments own estimates was that they could if they wished get a quarter of it back. I understand that it was a desperate time but the fact that they believed that they could get a quarter of it back and chose not to demonstrates how they value the public purse. The failed test and trace system too. What was the final bill? Over £30B IIRC, what the hell did Dido Harding do with it. Needs explaining.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
More horrific hell holes that make Birmingham a paradise: Geneva, Paris, Seoul, Barcelona.

Oh the horrors of cities denser than London.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Next you will be pretending you aren’t really more a Tory these days than me

Im not sure what you are. It strongly depends on what I’m arguing it seems.

As I said support for immigration is more a right wing than left wing thing.

Now ask me about tax and spend.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
More horrific hell holes that make Birmingham a paradise: Geneva, Paris, Seoul, Barcelona.

Oh the horrors of cities denser than London.
A bit like plucking the random countries for population density, we could always pick a few cities that are indeed horrific.

(And as for those picked, Paris has a deeply seedy underbelly btw, really not sure I like it! Barcelona as far as I could see was split into good tourist vs slight shantiness. Can't speak for Seoul, but I did know people who couldn't wait to escape because living in that way was driving them insane! OK, this government sent them back because they only had a temporary work contract for three years...)
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
A bit like plucking the random countries for population density, we could always pick a few cities that are indeed horrific.

(And as for those picked, Paris has a deeply seedy underbelly btw, really not sure I like it! Barcelona as far as I could see was split into good tourist vs slight shantiness. Can't speak for Seoul, but I did know people who couldn't wait to escape because living in that way was driving them insane! OK, this government sent them back because they only had a temporary work contract for three years...)

Again, your starting point is Birmingham.

It’s about design decisions but you can have perfectly liveable walkable cities that hold more than our current biggest cities.

Forget everything else. Why can’t central London be like Manhattan? Would that be so terrible?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I mean even if we stopped all the foreigners we’d still need to build something like a million homes to meet what we have. Are we saying that’s impossible?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
It’s never going to happen and large parts of Manhattan are not easy places to live!

Neither are large parts of London or Birmingham or Manchester. Big cities do be like that.

And there’s a huge amount of room between the two. We could double density in central London and Manhattan’s would still be 50% higher. And we don’t even need to do that.

I assume you’re another “country is full” type. I just don’t see the logic.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
How much of England is actually built on? Pretty sure it’s less than 10%; all countries in Western Europe require immigration to offset people living longer and decreasing birth rates.
 

SBT

Well-Known Member
Neither are large parts of London or Birmingham or Manchester. Big cities do be like that.

And there’s a huge amount of room between the two. We could double density in central London and Manhattan’s would still be 50% higher. And we don’t even need to do that.

I assume you’re another “country is full” type. I just don’t see the logic.
You assume wrong - I just mean that Manhattan’s population density is deeply unusual for a major western city, and is the product of urban planning, economic and cultural factors that can’t be replicated in central London, which is thousands of years old. And having lived in both places, central London is a much more pleasant place to live. I’m not being a NIMBY saying that - let a thousand blossoms bloom etc - but we’re not about to turn Westminster into the Lower East Side and we shouldn’t pretend we can either.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
You assume wrong - I just mean that Manhattan’s population density is deeply unusual for a major western city, and is the product of urban planning, economic and cultural factors that can’t be replicated in central London, which is thousands of years old. And having lived in both places, central London is a much more pleasant place to live. I’m not being a NIMBY saying that - let a thousand blossoms bloom etc - but we’re not about to turn Westminster into the Lower East Side and we shouldn’t pretend we can either.

But we don’t need to. I’m using these cities as examples because people are saying we can’t increase density at all. As I say there’s huge swathes of ground between central London now and Manhattan. But people are acting like if we add another storey to some buildings we’ll be living in slum land. It’s nonsense.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Actually if you want Manhattan Milton Keynes probably makes most sense.

Stick some high speed connections to Oxford, Cambridge, London and Birmingham in and you’d grow it to the millions easily.
 

SBT

Well-Known Member
Pretty much. You get we are talking about open immigration and not asylum/students/high skill right?
I’m just trying to understand why countries with high GDP per capita - a table typically topped by Middle East petrostates and gambling dens - are considered to be more culturally similar to us than, say, much poorer Commonwealth states who have used our language and legal system for more than a century.
 

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