Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Who else on the panel?
Mick Lynch has been booked for QT tonight. Might be worth a watch.
As with many things its finding a balance isn't it. I don't have a problem with people that want to work hard and do 20 hour days or constantly study to get some reward, the issue is the disparity.The first ones couldn’t see that they owed success to a helping hand. The second couldn’t see that it wasn’t unfair for him to succeed-just that more didn’t have the same opportunity.
As with many things its finding a balance isn't it. I don't have a problem with people that want to work hard and do 20 hour days or constantly study to get some reward, the issue is the disparity.
For me anyone who is working full time, in whatever job, should be able to sustain a basic standard of living without relying on benefits, food banks etc. That's how it worked for my parents and grandparents. I have a 'better' job than my Dad or either of my Grandads but I can't afford anything like the standard of living they had and always have the feeling things could go south very quickly. That's not to say that they never had any struggles but bigger picture with one wage in the household they could afford a decent house, car, holiday every year etc.
The problem now is those at the top are getting richer at a ridiculous rate, and often have inheritance or family connections to thank more than hard work and ability, while the number of people struggling is ever increasing. Look at how working people are being pitched against each other, people saying rail employees shouldn't get a raise because teachers haven't and thinks like that, why is the thinking not everyone should get a raise so they can afford a basic standard of living.
As with many things its finding a balance isn't it. I don't have a problem with people that want to work hard and do 20 hour days or constantly study to get some reward, the issue is the disparity.
For me anyone who is working full time, in whatever job, should be able to sustain a basic standard of living without relying on benefits, food banks etc. That's how it worked for my parents and grandparents. I have a 'better' job than my Dad or either of my Grandads but I can't afford anything like the standard of living they had and always have the feeling things could go south very quickly. That's not to say that they never had any struggles but bigger picture with one wage in the household they could afford a decent house, car, holiday every year etc.
The problem now is those at the top are getting richer at a ridiculous rate, and often have inheritance or family connections to thank more than hard work and ability, while the number of people struggling is ever increasing. Look at how working people are being pitched against each other, people saying rail employees shouldn't get a raise because teachers haven't and thinks like that, why is the thinking not everyone should get a raise so they can afford a basic standard of living.
You talk if this is a modern new thing - it happened in the 70’s and people got their massive pay rises - then look what happened
Take it you approve of the proposals to help those poor souls in the City
its irrelevant to me
So really should whatever a railway signaller is asking for but apparently not
Well clearly that is relevant isn’t it as mass industrial action has consequences for everyone
Not for me I don’t need a train this week
Grant ShappsWho else on the panel?
It’s nothing to do with trains it’s a domino impact where industries will all demand the wage rises if these get their way - as we saw in the 70’s - unions smelled blood - nurses teachers then private sector unions will go for huge pay demands and the tax payer in the end would pick up the tab
Anyway it was said yesterday the number 1 aim is no redundancies. What planet do these people live on?
But you said wage rises cause inflation, so it is relevant to you as you'll be paying more for stuff.its irrelevant to me
So if the bankers get a huge pay increase won't all the other industries then demand pay rises as well?It’s nothing to do with trains it’s a domino impact where industries will all demand the wage rises if these get their way - as we saw in the 70’s - unions smelled blood - nurses teachers then private sector unions will go for huge pay demands and the tax payer in the end would pick up the tab
Anyway it was said yesterday the number 1 aim is no redundancies. What planet do these people live on?
Intereasting graphic on Peston last night of the real terms change average total weekly earnings since the Tories have been in power for public sector in comparison to the private sector. You've only got to look at that to see why there is the prospect of mass strikes this year.
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I'll be generous and say I get the same paid holidays in my public job as I did private (think I'm a day or two down) and a worse pension. No bonuses or anything either. Only thing it's better at is the intangible - my manager is a human being wrt life events and flexibility in that respect (see chiefdave for the opposite!)... but that's luck of the draw really.Public sector generally have far far better t&c's with more paid hols, more generous pensions etc.
Or things like overtime, etc.I'll be generous and say I get the same paid holidays in my public job as I did private (think I'm a day or two down) and a worse pension. No bonuses or anything either. Only thing it's better at is the intangible - my manager is a human being wrt life events and flexibility in that respect (see chiefdave for the opposite!)... but that's luck of the draw really.
Conversely that sometimes goes into the intangible. They lock my building and I'm forced home! Perversely sounds great, but not when there's something you have to finish!Or things like overtime, etc.
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Over a decade of real terms wage deflation. Current inflation rate 9.5%. So obviously it's wages that are the problem
But really if we hadn’t had a decade of not paying people properly we wouldn’t see bigger requests now. If you advocated austerity at the time well this is the consequence
Think this is an important point. Even when we had low inflation wages were lagging. I've just calculated mine using the BoE inflation calculator and even before the current surge in inflation I've effectively had a 15% pay cut since 2010. If inflation is now running at 10% plus and pay rises aren't forthcoming I've in real terms lost a quarter of my wage, which simply isn't sustainable.Intereasting graphic on Peston last night of the real terms change average total weekly earnings since the Tories have been in power for public sector in comparison to the private sector. You've only got to look at that to see why there is the prospect of mass strikes this year.
I'll be generous and say I get the same paid holidays in my public job as I did private (think I'm a day or two down) and a worse pension. No bonuses or anything either. Only thing it's better at is the intangible - my manager is a human being wrt life events and flexibility in that respect (see chiefdave for the opposite!)... but that's luck of the draw really.
Do they have any jobs going? Better salary and conditions than Rob's though pleaseI've got mates who work in public health, local government, NHS & Universities.....they all have big holiday entitilement, flexi-time, WFH, fairly hefty pension contributions etc
It’s nothing to do with trains it’s a domino impact where industries will all demand the wage rises if these get their way - as we saw in the 70’s - unions smelled blood - nurses teachers then private sector unions will go for huge pay demands and the tax payer in the end would pick up the tab
Anyway it was said yesterday the number 1 aim is no redundancies. What planet do these people live on?
Why won't Network Rail give a commitment to no compulsory redudancies? it is not a difficult ask
Merseyrail staff just voted to accept 7.1% pay rise....... seems like a good reference point.
Bottled it I think. Probably send a junior minister with a poorly prepared brief to face him instead. Shapps is busy selling online ponzi schemes online under various aliases.Grant Shapps
So if the bankers get a huge pay increase won't all the other industries then demand pay rises as well?
Well I did say "generally".
I'm sure we can all find examples right across the spectrum mind.
I've got mates who work in public health, local government, NHS & Universities.....they all have big holiday entitilement, flexi-time, WFH, fairly hefty pension contributions etc.
Equally, a SME company director will clearly have far better t&cs than a hotel cleaner, but they're both in the private sector.
As I say.....its a tricky comparison
I think I heard the other day that the UK average is a 19% cut in wages in real terms since 2010.Think this is an important point. Even when we had low inflation wages were lagging. I've just calculated mine using the BoE inflation calculator and even before the current surge in inflation I've effectively had a 15% pay cut since 2010. If inflation is now running at 10% plus and pay rises aren't forthcoming I've in real terms lost a quarter of my wage, which simply isn't sustainable.
At some point I can't keep paying my bills and putting food on the table. I'm already having to cut spending, no season ticket for me this year as I simply can't afford it. The idea that you can lose, in real terms, a quarter of your salary but everything will be fine if you cancel Netflix is crazy.
People simply don't have the room to manoeuvre. Record numbers of people in work on benefits, record food bank usage, increased poverty. I just don't see how anyone can argue that someone working a full time job shouldn't be able to sustain a basic standard of living.
But it is pretty selfish ultimately, because it's only your offspring you're bothered about. If it gives your kids more but other kids end up suffering because of it, so be it. You got what YOU wanted.
I'm fine with people wanting to protect their kids and family - it's one of the most basic traits ingrained in us and many other species. A roof over their heads, food in their belly and being happy.
But at the same time I acknowledge that every single other person wants that too. I know there will be people who find this hard to fathom, but when I think of other people even though I don't know them I put myself into the position of if I did - if they were my nan, brother, mum - and what would I want for them. Because the alternative is looking at them and thinking "why should I give a fuck about them?", which is the mindset you're ultimately supporting. So while you're putting your own kids first, it would mean that every single other person doesn't give a shit about them. If your kids suffer so their family can have more then that's the way it's got to be. You're advocating a system whereby everyone else will be looking to take from your kids at any opportunity and not care about them. That seems like a very odd thing to desire for your children.
So instead why shouldn't I look at ways to achieve what every single one of us wants together, rather than fighting each other and everyone ending up being unhappy and huge numbers failing in such a basic task? You say how difficult it is for your kids to buy a home, and you're right. But is the problem there caused by people like yourself and your kids wanting to buy a home or the greedy bastards who own loads of them, use them to line their own pockets and still want more. But rather than try and make that situation better you're just playing their game armed like the Black Knight from Monty Python.
Its not, you compare like for like in terms of skill level at the least. My salary has doubled in the private sector without my skills doubling, I have unlimited holiday, expenses paid trips, work from anywhere. If I want a pay rise I answer one of the many LinkedIn messages I get. I can earn over £100k as a technical educator privately, to earn £100k in state education I’d need to be a super head.
So you happen to be a well paid in-demand professional. Well done. Although i'm fairly sure job hopping is not the same as asking for a pay rise......
As I stated above, I'm sure we can all find examples of good & bad in both sectors, but Im just saying that basic salary comparisons are very blunt tool that rarely take in to consideration the added value of pensions, holidays etc.
Sticking with Education then, A basic grade state teacher, for example, may not get paid a great amount, but did their 3 months holidays + 24% employer pension contribution get added into the stats?......probably not.
I believe state teachers are underpaid & deserve more btw.
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