Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Lots of people have gone to jail for it. What do you think needs to be done about it? Can you please spell it out.

In the minds of the victims-turned-campaigners, clearly not enough people have gone to jail.

There are more pertinent questions actually. First, do you believe the authorities have done enough on this? Second, do you believe there is ethnic/religious dimension to this? Third, do you believe there has been a cover up? Finally, should people be angry about this?

 

---

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Who ensured the report was done

It’s another embarrassing U-turn for the government, but at least he’s done it. Even if that makes him and his cabinet ‘far right’ now!

There’s been that many U-turns by this government already, it’s a worrying trend of bad political judgement.

 

[fernandopartridge]

In the minds of the victims-turned-campaigners, clearly not enough people have gone to jail.

There are more pertinent questions actually. First, do you believe the authorities have done enough on this? Second, do you believe there is ethnic/religious dimension to this? Third, do you believe there has been a cover up? Finally, should people be angry about this?

Answer the question

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s another embarrassing U-turn for the government, but at least he’s done it. Even if that makes him and his cabinet ‘far right’ now!

There’s been that many U-turns by this government already, it’s a worrying trend of bad political judgement.

You don’t believe the more information from the report,

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s another embarrassing U-turn for the government, but at least he’s done it. Even if that makes him and his cabinet ‘far right’ now!

There’s been that many U-turns by this government already, it’s a worrying trend of bad political judgement.

As it has been for numerous governments of many parties over the years.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

As it has been for numerous governments of many parties over the years.

Agreed and both the Tories and Labour are being punished for it too.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Answer the question

Reopen cold cases to prosecute more perpetrators. Deport any non-UK born criminals successfully convicted.

Investigate the role of Whitehall, local government and police in the scandal. Again, prosecute officials involved, particularly where corruption is involved (i.e. the police).

Now I’d like your answers to my questions please.

 

[fernandopartridge]

In the minds of the victims-turned-campaigners, clearly not enough people have gone to jail.

There are more pertinent questions actually. First, do you believe the authorities have done enough on this? Second, do you believe there is ethnic/religious dimension to this? Third, do you believe there has been a cover up? Finally, should people be angry about this?

Do I believe the authorities have done enough?

Which authorities?

Do you believe there is an ethnic / religious dimension to this?

Yes, there is a pattern of offending by men of similar ethnicity. Whether or not that has anything to do with religion I don't know, sounds speculative tbh.

Do I believe there has been a cover up?

No, numerous convictions and there has already been the Jay report. What's being covered up?

Should people be angry about this?

Angry about what specifically?

 

[tisza]

Do I believe there has been a cover up?

No, numerous convictions and there has already been the Jay report. What's being covered up?

Think there has to be questions on why it took so long from the first reported case in 2001 to get the first convictions in 2010.
Were police forces acting on their own initiative when they backed off the specific issue of nationality/ethnicity or was it guidance from Govts/Home office?
Whose decision exactly was it to try and suppress certain TV programmes and newspaper investigations because of concerns about the racial aspect?
Why so many cold cases are having to be reopened? Over 800 so far. Who closed the cases and why?

 

[shmmeee]

FFS the enquiry is about organised gangs and you are proving yourselves to be a bunch of barrack room lawyers keen to debate the technical meaning of rape.

Pathetic.

No the enquiry is about child sexual exploitation. You just only care if you get to shout about brown people. Disgusting TBH.

 

[Captain Dart]

No the enquiry is about child sexual exploitation. You just only care if you get to shout about brown people. Disgusting TBH.

You are a pedantic idiot, stop embarassing yourself by proving it.

 

[chiefdave]

Headlines chief?

This is the data from the original report


The Casey report then tries to factor in unrecorded ethnicity



So essentially we're back to what Casey said yesterday which is, despite numerous reports saying a change is needed, the data on ethnicity is very poor.

This is my concern with another inquiry really, we keep repeating the same process, draw roughly the same conclusions and do fuck all.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No the enquiry is about child sexual exploitation. You just only care if you get to shout about brown people. Disgusting TBH.

Yes, and what it find about the perpetrators of this? A disproportionate amount of the crimes were committed by non-UK nationals.

There was a systematic unwillingness to investigate those crimes due to fears of being labelled racist and/or inflaming community tensions.

That second paragraph is the actual scandal. We allowed this to happen because the perpetrators and victims were inconvenient for the authorities.

 

[chiefdave]

In the minds of the victims-turned-campaigners, clearly not enough people have gone to jail.

Think its important not to group all victims together as they are not all of the same opinion. There is certainly a group that want another inquiry, and as they have some political figures involved who receive a lot of media coverage this message is possibly getting a disproportionate level of coverage.

However there's also other groups who have spoken up in the last couple of days. I've heard one victims group representative saying they're sick of inquires, its consuming their lives when they just want the recommendations of previous inquiries to be implemented so they can try and draw a line under it and move on with their lives.

Then there was another group who are looking to pursue a judicial review over lack of action from previous inquires, this could halt the new inquiry in its tracks.

As you say for the scale of the crimes not enough people have been brought to justice but I'm not sure we need another inquiry for that to happen. Lets get on with getting those already identified into court and locked up.

Reopen cold cases to prosecute more perpetrators. Deport any non-UK born criminals successfully convicted.

These are both already things aren't they? The re-opening of hundreds of cases was announced in January and we already have a mechanism for deporting non-UK criminals, albeit one that could probably do with improvement. Again, this is not something that needs a new inquiry that could potentially delay things by years.

Find it very frustrating that we aren't just rounding the offenders up and dealing with them. We don't need further years of mulling over what we're going to do while they walk free.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, and what it find about the perpetrators of this? A disproportionate amount of the crimes were committed by non-UK nationals.

There was a systematic unwillingness to investigate those crimes due to fears of being labelled racist and/or inflaming community tensions.

That second paragraph is the actual scandal. We allowed this to happen because the perpetrators and victims were inconvenient for the authorities.

The first sentence should be easy enough to verify. To prove the second though, you’ll need evidence that similar crimes carried out by white British people were still investigated, or investigated more thoroughly than those by other groups.

I genuinely don’t know if that is the case.

 

[Grendel]

The first sentence should be easy enough to verify. To prove the second though, you’ll need evidence that similar crimes carried out by white British people were still investigated, or investigated more thoroughly than those by other groups.

I genuinely don’t know if that is the case.

The Casey report said there was an unwillingness to investigate. Witness statements were altered and any mention of the offenders being Pakistani removed. It is a national scandal and the defensiveness and deflection on here just seems odd.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The Casey report said there was an unwillingness to investigate. Witness statements were altered and any mention of the offenders being Pakistani removed. It is a national scandal and the defensiveness and deflection on here just seems odd.

That still doesn’t address the point.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The Casey report said there was an unwillingness to investigate. Witness statements were altered and any mention of the offenders being Pakistani removed. It is a national scandal and the defensiveness and deflection on here just seems odd.

In a nutshell, this is what the scandal actually is. The report hasn’t stated that there was an unwillingness to go after white perpetrators because there is insufficient evidence. The evidence in the case of Pakistani perpetrators, the local authorities just did not want

The defensiveness and deflection is galling.

Even Baroness Casey’s comments of ‘being a gift racists’ is a slip of the mask that demonstrates why this was covered up. The truth is uncomfortable for our society to digest.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In a nutshell, this is what the scandal actually is. The report hasn’t stated that there was an unwillingness to go after white perpetrators because there is insufficient evidence. The evidence in the case of Pakistani perpetrators, the local authorities just did not want

The defensiveness and deflection is galling.

Even Baroness Casey’s comments of ‘being a gift racists’ is a slip of the mask that demonstrates why this was covered up. The truth is uncomfortable for our society to digest.

You laugh above, but the proof has not been given that there was discrimination against white British sex offenders.

If you’d worked with children you’d understand why the question’s been asked.

 

[chiefdave]

The opening of HS2 will be delayed beyond the target date of 2033, the government will announce but it is not expected to say when the high speed railway line will begin operating.

Starting to wonder if this will open in my lifetime. How are we so bad at infrastructure.

 

[SBT]

In a nutshell, this is what the scandal actually is.

And here was I thinking this was a scandal about girls being abused.

Make no mistake, the attempts to play down the ethnic elements of this abuse which may have helped to allow it to continue are an outrageous scandal, and if this enquiry brings those responsible to justice then I’m all for it. But if it serves as a vehicle to turn this scandal solely into a question of the merits of multiculturalism then I don’t see how that properly serves the victims.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes, and what it find about the perpetrators of this? A disproportionate amount of the crimes were committed by non-UK nationals.

There was a systematic unwillingness to investigate those crimes due to fears of being labelled racist and/or inflaming community tensions.

That second paragraph is the actual scandal. We allowed this to happen because the perpetrators and victims were inconvenient for the authorities.

Yes it is and I’ve explained how that is downstream of the issue of accepting teenagers in inappropriate relationships. The stats show Pakistani origin men are overrepresented. Not that it’s exclusively Pakistani men. Kick all Pakistanis out as Douglas Carswell is currently arguing would not solve this problem.

What is the policy solution you are proposing? Is it by any chance “stop all immigration” like it is for every other policy challenge in the country?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is the data from the original report
View attachment 43705

The Casey report then tries to factor in unrecorded ethnicity

View attachment 43707

So essentially we're back to what Casey said yesterday which is, despite numerous reports saying a change is needed, the data on ethnicity is very poor.

This is my concern with another inquiry really, we keep repeating the same process, draw roughly the same conclusions and do fuck all.

Thank you and that makes a huge amount of sense
It’s why emotion and drama isn’t needed but hard headed evidence fact finding and implementing of changes that actually impact things for the better

I know it’s not grooming gang related but when I had to take an interest in this area the police expect an epedemic of convictions for child pictures and on line abuse with up to 500000 men likely to be acting criminally. You can’t imprison them all

It’s why the work of foundations like this Lucy Faithfull Foundation - Preventing child sexual abuse are so important

And they’ll be people on here who need to read and get help. It’s often those who are most vociferous who will be affected and finding they need the advice to stop what they are involved in before it becomes criminal.

Thanks chief

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The first sentence should be easy enough to verify. To prove the second though, you’ll need evidence that similar crimes carried out by white British people were still investigated, or investigated more thoroughly than those by other groups.

I genuinely don’t know if that is the case.

Great point

 

[Grendel]

Great point

Its missing the points that Casey made and diverting to something else - which seems very odd

 

[Grendel]

Yes it is and I’ve explained how that is downstream of the issue of accepting teenagers in inappropriate relationships. The stats show Pakistani origin men are overrepresented. Not that it’s exclusively Pakistani men. Kick all Pakistanis out as Douglas Carswell is currently arguing would not solve this problem.

What is the policy solution you are proposing? Is it by any chance “stop all immigration” like it is for every other policy challenge in the country?

Its nothing to do with "accepting teenagers in inappropriate relationships" - I'd love to see you tell the victims that. Some were as young as 10 and were turned into prostitutes where a succession of men would one after the other rape them. Some were mentally traumatised already and some were disabled.

There were no "relationships"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Its missing the points that Casey made and diverting to something else - which seems very odd

No, it isn’t. The claim made is that these crimes weren’t investigated because of the racial profile of the offenders. That has not been proven and cannot be without evidence that ‘homegrown’ offenders were investigated but foreign ones were dismissed.

Again, you also have never worked with children.

 

[Grendel]

No, it isn’t. The claim made is that these crimes weren’t investigated because of the racial profile of the offenders. That has not been proven and cannot be without evidence that ‘homegrown’ offenders were investigated but foreign ones were dismissed.

Again, you also have never worked with children.

So you dispute the findings? Fair enough but I would politely suggest her research is a bit more in depth than a guy on the internet.

Why was the racial profile of the offenders doctored in witness statements? Do you honestly believe if a person was white the word white would have been removed from a witness statement?