Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

No, it was making poor quality cars mostly

Same shit happened in telecomms, Huawei took out UK industry, UK management was unimaginative, innovation and quality was not really pursued, partly because Chinese/Far East workers have a better work ethic and more to gain by being successful.

 

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[The Philosopher]

No, it was making poor quality cars mostly

Great insight. Nuanced reply. Smart.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I can confirm that Nigel does like a pint, having partaken with him on several occasions.

I’ve had several one on one convo’s with him and can say that the bloke is very clued up geopolitically, has a good grasp of economics, history, law, social diversity etc. To call him stupid or racist or a charlatan is quite ridiculous.

I’ve met and debated and swapped ideas with countless Labour MP’s and MEP’s - never met one with a clue about anything. All of them identikit clowns with a chip on their shoulder

I’m a Tory. To be honest there’s not much gravitas in our ranks atm. I’ve met Kemi, indeed I endorsed her to be leader. She’s not cutting through yet. Penny M would have been a good leader as too would Miriam Cates, but alas both out of office now.

Nigel connects far better and makes them all like 6th form debate participants. Unfortunately.

To be fair, I got on well with Clegg, decent bloke who was more suited to the Tories at the time.

These people who go slegging Farage without knowing any real facts about the guy are a bit sad.

He’s a charlatan

Various heartlands?

Let’s talk about the Coventry car industry - it’s poignant to this forum I suppose.

Was it opposing immigration that destroyed that or Labour backed unions and the politics of envy and entitlement coupled with EU law restricting protectionist measures and allowing manufacture to be taken to other EU nations where competition rules were broken (PSA)?

Or was it “dimwits” that didn’t get themselves into mega-debt studying pointless degrees at universities who now feel a sense of injustice at people who have contributed nothing getting what they see to be preferential treatment?

I didn’t write the script, I’m just reading the audience.

The demise of car manufacturing was nothing to do with immigration. It was one industry that should never have been nationalised.

 

[mmttww]

to calm him stupid or racist or a charlatan...

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do migrants get priority for housing, genuinely? I don't know. I do know that we have not built any public housing on any meaningful scale for 35 years which has led to an absolute scarcity of supply vs demand.

Is the NHS struggling because of migration? The biggest driver of hospital use for non-elderly population is deprivation, this coincides quite often with ethnicity but is not exclusive to ethnicity. Somebody aged between 1 and 4 is twice as likely to be referred to a consultant if they live in the most deprived decile than somebody in the least deprived decile. By the time people reach their 20s, it is nearly 3 times the likelihood. Where's the outcry? What are governments going to do about this? Some of it might be explained by the rise of personal insurance but it's unlikely.

There have been 15 years or more of governments telling the public the public realm has to look completely shit because they cannot afford otherwise, look at the bin strikes in Cov and now those in Birmingham, they could be solved in an instant but the government of the times was unwilling to do so. In spending on public services like health, a complete unwillingness to look reality in the face.

I don't have a position on whether immigration is too high or not, it feels high but I think like I've said above, everything feels a lot worse because of the context.

36000 in 2024 can’t be making that much difference surely

 

[shmmeee]

Do migrants get priority for housing, genuinely? I don't know. I do know that we have not built any public housing on any meaningful scale for 35 years which has led to an absolute scarcity of supply vs demand.

Is the NHS struggling because of migration? The biggest driver of hospital use for non-elderly population is deprivation, this coincides quite often with ethnicity but is not exclusive to ethnicity. Somebody aged between 1 and 4 is twice as likely to be referred to a consultant if they live in the most deprived decile than somebody in the least deprived decile. By the time people reach their 20s, it is nearly 3 times the likelihood. Where's the outcry? What are governments going to do about this? Some of it might be explained by the rise of personal insurance but it's unlikely.

There have been 15 years or more of governments telling the public the public realm has to look completely shit because they cannot afford otherwise, look at the bin strikes in Cov and now those in Birmingham, they could be solved in an instant but the government of the times was unwilling to do so. In spending on public services like health, a complete unwillingness to look reality in the face.

I don't have a position on whether immigration is too high or not, it feels high but I think like I've said above, everything feels a lot worse because of the context.

Genuine Q cos I don’t know but (bare with me here hypotheticals) if all immigrants are poor and move to deprived areas how can you disentangle that’s immigration and what’s deprevation?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You just decide the link is immigration and say get rid of everyone from the last 10 years and everyone will be rich like inner city 70’s and 80’s when we didn’t have any issues at all

 

[fernandopartridge]

Genuine Q cos I don’t know but (bare with me here hypotheticals) if all immigrants are poor and move to deprived areas how can you disentangle that’s immigration and what’s deprevation?

Genuine Q cos I don’t know but (bare with me here hypotheticals) if all immigrants are poor and move to deprived areas how can you disentangle that’s immigration and what’s deprevation?

Good question. The data published is on pure ethnicity which includes British born people of other BME origin. I'm not sure if there is any data collected on immigration status.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do migrants get priority for housing, genuinely? I don't know. I do know that we have not built any public housing on any meaningful scale for 35 years which has led to an absolute scarcity of supply vs demand.

Is the NHS struggling because of migration? The biggest driver of hospital use for non-elderly population is deprivation, this coincides quite often with ethnicity but is not exclusive to ethnicity. Somebody aged between 1 and 4 is twice as likely to be referred to a consultant if they live in the most deprived decile than somebody in the least deprived decile. By the time people reach their 20s, it is nearly 3 times the likelihood. Where's the outcry? What are governments going to do about this? Some of it might be explained by the rise of personal insurance but it's unlikely.

There have been 15 years or more of governments telling the public the public realm has to look completely shit because they cannot afford otherwise, look at the bin strikes in Cov and now those in Birmingham, they could be solved in an instant but the government of the times was unwilling to do so. In spending on public services like health, a complete unwillingness to look reality in the face.

I don't have a position on whether immigration is too high or not, it feels high but I think like I've said above, everything feels a lot worse because of the context.

Yeah but the left don't want to debate the issue....

What always happens is that "the left aren't listening!" so the left say they accept there are issues around immigration and it can put pressure on public services etc., but the issues are far more complex than "it's all because of the immigrants!" And then you point out these nuances and you get "the left aren't listening!" and round and round we go...

Also with the NHS the fact we have a massive increase in older people, who will by their very nature require more health and social care. And because we're not investing in social care (again largely staffed by immigrants) there's bed blocking increasing waiting times further.

And we don't employ locals in these jobs because we don't really want to do them, and not for the wages being offered certainly. But then if you encourage children to have aspirations and become educated and skilled, you shouldn't be surprised when they turn round and say they don't want to be cleaning up piss and shit for a living. So what do you do there? Stop encouraging kids to have aspiration? Start paying the job lots more (and thus make it even more costly to the public purse?) Not an easy answer is it...?

But again, we don't want to have the debate....

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah but the left don't want to debate the issue....

What always happens is that "the left aren't listening!" so the left say they accept there are issues around immigration and it can put pressure on public services etc., but the issues are far more complex than "it's all because of the immigrants!" And then you point out these nuances and you get "the left aren't listening!" and round and round we go...

Also with the NHS the fact we have a massive increase in older people, who will by their very nature require more health and social care. And because we're not investing in social care (again largely staffed by immigrants) there's bed blocking increasing waiting times further.

And we don't employ locals in these jobs because we don't really want to do them, and not for the wages being offered certainly. But then if you encourage children to have aspirations and become educated and skilled, you shouldn't be surprised when they turn round and say they don't want to be cleaning up piss and shit for a living. So what do you do there? Stop encouraging kids to have aspiration? Start paying the job lots more (and thus make it even more costly to the public purse?) Not an easy answer is it...?

But again, we don't want to have the debate....

We’ll put

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I can confirm that Nigel does like a pint, having partaken with him on several occasions.

I’ve had several one on one convo’s with him and can say that the bloke is very clued up geopolitically, has a good grasp of economics, history, law, social diversity etc. To call him stupid or racist or a charlatan is quite ridiculous.

I’ve met and debated and swapped ideas with countless Labour MP’s and MEP’s - never met one with a clue about anything. All of them identikit clowns with a chip on their shoulder

I’m a Tory. To be honest there’s not much gravitas in our ranks atm. I’ve met Kemi, indeed I endorsed her to be leader. She’s not cutting through yet. Penny M would have been a good leader as too would Miriam Cates, but alas both out of office now.

Nigel connects far better and makes them all like 6th form debate participants. Unfortunately.

To be fair, I got on well with Clegg, decent bloke who was more suited to the Tories at the time.

These people who go slegging Farage without knowing any real facts about the guy are a bit sad.

I don't think many people think Farage isn't savvy. By saying he's a charlatan and snake oil salesman it's kind of implying he has the intelligence to pander to a crowd and get the image right even though his background is massively removed from "one of us".

He's admitted he's not overly fussed about immigration - it just gets him votes. His main benefactors and people he wants to help are the rich, and they benefit more from immigration because it keeps their wage costs down, and he'll go for that everytime. He also favours massive tax cuts for the rich at the expense of decimating public services. The Reform manifesto pretty much said as much. He IS a charlatan playing to the crowd and telling them what they want to hear, not the reality or what his actual intentions are.

 

[Evo1883]

Well since ive been in my street (6 years ) every family that have moved out has been replaced by foreign born nationals with families .

The problem is the way housing is prioritised , people with families are generally classed as high priority because they are homeless and sometimes living in crowded conditions so will love to band A and top priority for housing .

The new housing estate in Willenhall near the glade seems to be majority African and eastern european .

There is no list anymore , its a bullshit priority system that definitely favours migrants

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well since ive been in my street (6 years ) every family that have moved out has been replaced by foreign born nationals with families .

The problem is the way housing is prioritised , people with families are generally classed as high priority because they are homeless and sometimes living in crowded conditions so will love to band A and top priority for housing .

The new housing estate in Willenhall near the glade seems to be majority African and eastern european .

There is no list anymore , its a bullshit priority system that definitely favours migrants

Where’s that evo?

 

[Evo1883]

Where’s that evo?

Tile hill i live

 

[Evo1883]

Long story short , how can people suggest migrants / refugees are not being housed first when entire new build housing areas are being taken up by them and they've not been here that long ?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Tile hill i live

Unlikely to be immigrants who’ve come in boats over the channel

 

[Evo1883]

Unlikely to be immigrants who’ve come in boats over the channel

No im talking about all migrants sorry , the channel migrants are such a Small insignificant number compared to the overall figure im surprised people talk about it so much

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well since ive been in my street (6 years ) every family that have moved out has been replaced by foreign born nationals with families .

The problem is the way housing is prioritised , people with families are generally classed as high priority because they are homeless and sometimes living in crowded conditions so will love to band A and top priority for housing .

The new housing estate in Willenhall near the glade seems to be majority African and eastern european .

There is no list anymore , its a bullshit priority system that definitely favours migrants

Is that all social housing? I can envisage a system which could (purposefully or accidentally) favour migrants because of the way it prioritises.

Also, what are they like in terms of the community? Are they quiet, courteous or loud and troublemaking? I know a fair few native families in social housing that are practically feral and wouldn't want them living near me. Much prefer a honest migrant.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No im talking about all migrants sorry , the channel migrants are such a Small insignificant number compared to the overall figure im surprised people talk about it so much

Agreed
Then the issue is lack of housing and families are prioritised

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Long story short , how can people suggest migrants / refugees are not being housed first when entire new build housing areas are being taken up by them and they've not been here that long ?

Most housing developments only have a small number of social housing so if they're being completely filled with migrants then most of them will be buying those houses (or private renting).

 

[Evo1883]

Is that all social housing? I can envisage a system which could (purposefully or accidentally) favour migrants because of the way it prioritises.

Also, what are they like in terms of the community? Are they quiet, courteous or loud and troublemaking? I know a fair few native families in social housing that are practically feral and wouldn't want them living near me. Much prefer a honest migrant.

I only see what i see in areas like Willenhall when im at work , in terms of tile hill there is no issue really its quiet but we dont really communicate with eachother besides 1 somali family whose daughter is at school with my daughter

 

[fernandopartridge]

Long story short , how can people suggest migrants / refugees are not being housed first when entire new build housing areas are being taken up by them and they've not been here that long ?

Are they new build council housing?

 

[mmttww]

The problem is the way housing is prioritised...

Probably, I don't know enough about it, just not sure it's 'the' problem. If we'd have built houses at the rate we needed them, situation might be very different.

I get that doesn't help in the here and now, but if the argument keeps on re: immigration as if it's the root cause of a shortage, then it might never get fixed.

Just feel that for as long property is seen as a route to being wealthy rather than people having homes, you won't solve it however you prioritise waiting lists.

 

[Evo1883]

Are they new build council housing?

I couldn't tell you the split if im honest id be making it up

 

[Evo1883]

The immediate answer is to control how many people come here to such an extent it gives the country's infrastructure time to catch up whilst still allowing people here to work key jobs and learn

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I think new builds have to have a percentage of them which are social housing. Percentage depends on the area. I know near me its only something like 15%

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The immediate answer is to control how many people come here to such an extent it gives the country's infrastructure time to catch up whilst still allowing people here to work key jobs and learn

Pretty much what labour are trying to do

 

[Evo1883]

On my street , its all social housing , we ony got our house as my partner works for the company that provides them and as we are both ex military they gave us higher priority .

Its not council though, its housing association

However we are fortunate in that respect

 

[mmttww]

The immediate answer is to control how many people come here to such an extent it gives the country's infrastructure time to catch up whilst still allowing people here to work key jobs and learn

Don't think there's any evidence that this is realistic or achievable. Nothing anyone's done in my lifetime seems to have made a real difference. I'd rather people accept that and offer an honest set of policies to accelerate house building and infrastructure investment to catch-up.

 

[Evo1883]

Don't think there's any evidence that this is realistic or achievable. Nothing anyone's done in my lifetime seems to have made a real difference. I'd rather people accept that and offer an honest set of policies to accelerate house building and infrastructure investment to catch-up.

But in our lifetime the levels have become unsustainable and out of control , we allowed that to happen , so we can make it unhappen

Staying on the same path but trying to dig out of an ever filling grave isnt the answer

 

[mmttww]

...so we can make it unhappen

Brexit was sold as the path to that. Stop the Boats, Rwanda, tinkering with visas, min. income levels etc. No real change. People find a way to get here, invited or not, welcome or not. Not convinced Reform have a magic medicine for it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think new builds have to have a percentage of them which are social housing. Percentage depends on the area. I know near me its only something like 15%

They don't always, many developers get round those requirements in any case.

In my opinion the country needs to build estates of 100% houses at social rents at scale.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Great insight. Nuanced reply. Smart.

It's better than your predictable drivel about unions you clown

 

[Evo1883]

Brexit was sold as the path to that. Stop the Boats, Rwanda, tinkering with visas, min. income levels etc. No real change. People find a way to get here, invited or not, welcome or not. Not convinced Reform have a magic medicine for it.

I think we can do more , and I dont vote reform

 

[Evo1883]

They don't always, many developers get round those requirements in any case.

In my opinion the country needs to build estates of 100% houses at social rents at scale.

I agree