Do you want to discuss boring politics?

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
6,364
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To be fair to Cummings I’d keep Hancock away from any tv appearances as well !!! (The boycott was just churlish though)

Ps rumours of a cabinet reshuffle in Jan with Hancock and Williamson potentially being moved/removed. Would be a wise !
They are both deeply incompetent but there are others even worse - Patel immediately springs to mind.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
26,570
14,800
363
Coventry
Who remembers the good old days when we were all taking the piss out of Trumps Space Force?

Johnson is set to announce spending £4billion a year on Space Command.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
6,364
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This £4billion keeps coming up as an investment value for all sorts of initiatives.

I reckon it’s the same £4billion.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
8,061
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Who remembers the good old days when we were all taking the piss out of Trumps Space Force?

Johnson is set to announce spending £4billion a year on Space Command.
Is anyone actually remotely surprised they're just apeing whatever America does?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
8,061
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Is it a surprise he's rejected it?

They follow the experts unless the experts don't tell them what they want to hear. All they want is confirmation and if they don't get it they ignore it.

True of all govts - Labour ignored the findings of Prof. Nutt because it didn't support their stance of a war on drugs.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
6,364
3,830
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We have a government of liars, bully’s and racist who indulge in cronyism and unaccountability and the majority of the press don’t scrutinise this and a large percentage of the public don’t care. We’re fucked until people wake up.
Apparently being ‘woke’ is some kind of bad thing as well.
We’re proper fucked.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,119
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I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
27,372
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)
Its lies Steve. It’s always lies with this lot. And no manager needs to be told it’s inappropriate to swear and and berate your staff.

 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,119
1,358
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Its lies Steve. It’s always lies with this lot. And no manager needs to be told it’s inappropriate to swear and and berate your staff.

Thanks. Id not see that shmmeee, only the summary of the report on BBC website. strange that it contradicts the reports verdict. If true then, she should resign. I only say ‘if’ as he does have a vested interest in the matter (as he’s suing government)., As I say, pretty sure she won’t be able to change her style/manner anyway (which is obviously causing offence) so may as well walk now

Ps surely Sir Alex would’ve spoken to those involved in the recent incidents and asked if they had flagged her conduct to her and/or others, as part of his report ?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
26,266
5,224
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Thanks. Id not see that shmmeee, only the summary of the report on BBC website. strange that it contradicts the reports verdict. If true then, she should resign. I only say ‘if’ as he does have a vested interest in the matter (as he’s suing government)., As I say, pretty sure she won’t be able to change her style/manner anyway (which is obviously causing offence) so may as well walk now

Ps surely Sir Alex would’ve spoken to those involved in the recent incidents and asked if they had flagged her conduct to her and/or others, as part of his report ?
Well somebody ,one of two is lying.
PM has tried to influence content of the report, and the guy who wrote it felt the PM contradicts the outcome he came to after his investigation .
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
26,003
10,769
263
I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)
But she has form. This wasn’t a first time offence or a one off

 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
8,061
4,927
113
I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)
There is a point there, but Patel comes across as someone who wouldn't take that constructive criticism. She'd make your life a misery and look to get rid of you at the first opportunity. The fact that johnson has backed her and rejected the report tells you everything you need to know about who has the power. The Home Office is going to be an horrendous workplace from now on now that's she's effectively got away with it and the PM has basically given her carte blanche to treat the civil servants like crap.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,119
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There is a point there, but Patel comes across as someone who wouldn't take that constructive criticism. She'd make your life a misery and look to get rid of you at the first opportunity. The fact that johnson has backed her and rejected the report tells you everything you need to know about who has the power. The Home Office is going to be an horrendous workplace from now on now that's she's effectively got away with it and the PM has basically given her carte blanche to treat the civil servants like crap.
No, I think DOD is right, she’s done. She’ll be walking on eggshells (impossible for her by all accounts) knowing if anything is leaked she finished. The HO staff will know that and if anything her position will be weakened. As I said earlier she’d be better resigning now as I can’t imagine she be able to change, it’s her style/manner. The Home Secretary position is known as a bit of a graveyard ministerial role, probably for good reason.

ps reshuffle in Jan by all accounts...if she lasts.

Edit - Thinking about it if Gove did leak the lockdown info he could end up there (or Health)
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
8,061
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No, I think DOD is right, she’s done. She’ll be walking on eggshells (impossible for her by all accounts) knowing if anything is leaked she finished. The HO staff will know that and if anything her position will be weakened. As I said earlier she’d be better resigning now as I can’t imagine she be able to change, it’s her style/manner. The Home Secretary position is known as a bit of a graveyard ministerial role, probably for good reason.

ps reshuffle in Jan by all accounts...if she lasts
IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,119
1,358
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IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.
No sure she’ll get another post due to these issues. Who knows though....Education secretary anyone ?!! (Kidding 😊)
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
20,445
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IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.
She got bought back in after colluding with a foreign government. There are no standards any more
 
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CCFCSteve

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Aug 11, 2011
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She got bought back in after colluding with a foreign government. There are no standards any more
Standards and integrity in politics are long gone Clint (reminded myself of that when I stumbled across someone talking about the expenses scandal the other day)

Ps not all politicians, there’s a small handful of decent ones across the house
 

dubed

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2012
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Who would have thought a former ring-leader of the bullingdon club would condone bullying......


In fairness, the civil service itself doesn't have a good track record when it comes to bullying. Whilst behaviours are 'noted', I've never known a senior leader or senior manager be brought to book and action taken. If it's particularly bad, the person might be moved on in the next re-org, but that's about it. So there's quite of the pot calling the kettle black here.
 

It’sabatch87

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
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MPs getting a three grand pay rise I see,The leaders of all parties should come out and give it to a kids charity.
Didn’t Dave Nellist refuse his MPs salary when he was an MP in the 80’s? Just took a living wage etc?
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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MPs getting a three grand pay rise I see,The leaders of all parties should come out and give it to a kids charity.
Didn’t Dave Nellist refuse his MPs salary when he was an MP in the 80’s? Just took a living wage etc?
tbfm I have no problem with MPs getting a rise in principle - they're underpaid really, given they run the country.

I do have an issue with them getting a rise whilst they're imposing pay freezes on other public sector areas, mind you.
 
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It’sabatch87

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Jun 29, 2020
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tbfm I have no problem with MPs getting a rise in principle - they're underpaid really, given they run the country.

I do have an issue with them getting a rise whilst they're imposing pay freezes on other public sector areas, mind you.
Just think at times like these they should lead by example tbh.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2012
4,387
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here
Given the year we’ve had those in healthcare and education should be getting a pay rise without question
Frontline healthcare workers aside, I'm afraid public sector pay rises this year generally would be seen as a slap in the face for the millions of folks who have lost their jobs, had their earnings decimated, seen their businesses go under & look forward to more of the same in 2021....

Disgraceful that the MPs are taking theirs.......but not at all surprising.