Deering now a Director (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

I did, that's why I was referring to the £2m rather than the £0.

You can ask Italia his business arrangement It has been mentioned a few times on here.

I was asking you though. You apparently seem to know.

 

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[Sky Blue Kid]

Act of disloyalty to Coventry? I assume then you are just as appalled with the council for moving a London club to Coventry? In the interests of fairness. And of not being called a hypocrite? That's not slagging ccc just stating the obvious.

And if you care to go over my posts from the last 18 months or so, you will see I also blame CCC for our situation. Regarding Disloyalty to the City of Coventry, I stand behind that 100%. SISU took CCFC to Northampton, quite a while before Wasps came on the scene. They had numerous opportunities to sit down and talk about "Buying into the Ricoh" but refused(Only thing on SISU's mind was get something for nothing, or as near as) I didn't want Wasps in Coventry, but where would our Football Club be now if Wasps didn't offer us a rent at a massive discount to what we were paying to CCC? I'm saying that, to quote you.. In the interests of fairness.

 

[Nick]

And if you care to go over my posts from the last 18 months or so, you will see I also blame CCC for our situation. Regarding Disloyalty to the City of Coventry, I stand behind that 100%. SISU took CCFC to Northampton, quite a while before Wasps came on the scene. They had numerous opportunities to sit down and talk about "Buying into the Ricoh" but refused(Only thing on SISU's mind was get something for nothing, or as near as) I didn't want Wasps in Coventry, but where would our Football Club be now if Wasps didn't offer us a rent at a massive discount to what we were paying to CCC? I'm saying that, to quote you.. In the interests of fairness.

1. Wasps were interested and on the scene before sixfields.
2. The rent was agreed with ACL before Wasps bought it wasn't it?

 

[skybluetony176]

1. Wasps were interested and on the scene before sixfields.
2. The rent was agreed with ACL before Wasps bought it wasn't it?

So if Wasps were on the scene when you claim are you saying that they had no input to the deal that took us back home to Coventry? Not exactly on the scene if they didn't surely?

 

[Nick]

So if Wasps were on the scene when you claim are you saying that they had no input to the deal that took us back home to Coventry? Not exactly on the scene if they didn't surely?

They could have been on the scene but then not owners.

Unless they had already bought it and it wasn't announced

They could well have made it a demand CCFC came back.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes it was a couple of years later and things had changed.

Did Wasps pay Higgs at least £3.5m for their share? I know there is the addon about ticket sales also.

No but you know that. But then again neither SISU nor Wasps made an offer based on a formula included in the original agreement either.

They paid 2.77m or in total £5.54m ........ using your £2m value that made ACL worth £4m ....... so Wasps were prepared to pay significantly more than SISU were prepared to pay in 2012. And that after the value of ACL had been distressed by the dispute for over 18 months

The value changed Nick and at least part of the change was initiated by the actions of SISU. The verbal "value" in 2012 has no relationship to the value in 2014 in reality

 

[Nick]

No but you know that. But then again neither SISU nor Wasps made an offer based on a formula included in the original agreement either.

They paid 2.77m or in total £5.54m ........ using your £2m value that made ACL worth £4m ....... so Wasps were prepared to pay significantly more than SISU were prepared to pay in 2012.

The value changed Nick and at least part of the change was initiated by the actions of SISU

But then they didn't offer £1.5 more to Higgs, that would have been £1.5m for everything. I was only comparing difference on the 50% so yes it would be £1.5m in total for the whole of ACL.

 

[skybluetony176]

They could have been on the scene but then not owners.

Unless they had already bought it and it wasn't announced

They could well have made it a demand CCFC came back.

So they could have had input into our return then like SBK claimed?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

1. Wasps were interested and on the scene before sixfields.
2. The rent was agreed with ACL before Wasps bought it wasn't it?

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rug...-coventry-stadium-plan-for-wasps-9769264.html .........................CCFC prepaired to play there first home game in Northampton on Sunday 11th August 2013. Take a look at the date when Wasps first showed interest. It is in my link... Now tell me I'm wrong Nick!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Thats why i put 1.5m in TOTAL value in the original post

 

[Nick]

So they could have had input into our return then like SBK claimed?

They couldn't have "offered us rent at a low price" no.

Well they could have, if they had bought it and were running it before they were announced. I guess officially they couldn't

 

[oldskyblue58]

Pointless argument though isnt it. There never was any deal at £2m. The valuations gave different figures and the actual value that counts is what was actually paid. Value in 2012 was never going to be the same as in 2014

I am also not sure how this has very much relevance to the reasons Ms Deering has been appointed director recently

 

[Nick]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rug...-coventry-stadium-plan-for-wasps-9769264.html .........................CCFC prepaired to play there first home game in Northampton on Sunday 11th August 2013. Take a look at the date when Wasps first showed interest. It is in my link... Now tell me I'm wrong Nick!

Where is the date they first showed interest?

They were interested in around 2012, March time.

Justice Treacy asks for evidence to show Wasps was in the wings at the time of the loan.
Sisu QC says the document with reference to this was from March 2012.
Council QC admits he may have been overdoing it to say it was “in the wings”, “but certainly it had been mentioned”.

Also the article from the Cov Rugby bloke who had chats in 2012 with the Wasps owner about it. (Can't remember his name and can't search at the minute)

Edit : Peter Rossborough also said he spoke to them in 2012.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

This is a joke. People point blank refuse to acknowledge this was a shambles before SISU, during SISU and will be after. Manhattan sports group walked away stating the council were unworkable. So how is it SISU are held mostly to blame. The council screwed the club since day one. You can all bang on about SISU but none of you are being objective and looking at the whole sorry saga. Just the bit where you don't like SISU. Still let the club die because you don't like the owners.

 

[Nick]

Pointless argument though isnt it. There never was any deal at £2m. The valuations gave different figures and the actual value that counts is what was actually paid. Value in 2012 was never going to be the same as in 2014

I am also not sure how this has very much relevance to the reasons Ms Deering has been appointed director recently

I agree, it is more about the public perception of it.

Back onto the director, it could be a good thing as them taking closer control and keeping an eye on it having a SISU person rather than hired help in around there.

 

[chiefdave]

This is a fuss about nothing isn't it. Don't see it of a sign of impending doom - well not anymore doom than their usually is. Would be more concerned if anyone connected to SISU and their associates were rushing to get their names removed.

In any case a lot happened between 2012 and 2014 that affected the value of the ACL shares and therefore the two "values" are not linked

Isn't the point less to do with what was or wasn't accepted and more that people on here, in the CT etc were outraged that SISU offered £2m, comments about Higgs being a charity, think of the children etc, yet when Wasps came along and paid not a great deal more to Higgs it was a fantastic deal that went unquestioned.

If "Big Dave" was working with SISU, let's say for example he owned a hotel and 70 - 80% of his business was done via SISU.

Does average Dave the Rugger fan get stick? Certainly not off me.

I don't work with SISU, own a hotel or like rugby

 

[SkyBlueZack]

So the rumour is true and you are 'BIG' Dave

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

This is a fuss about nothing isn't it. Don't see it of a sign of impending doom - well not anymore doom than their usually is. Would be more concerned if anyone connected to SISU and their associates were rushing to get their names removed.



Isn't the point less to do with what was or wasn't accepted and more that people on here, in the CT etc were outraged that SISU offered £2m, comments about Higgs being a charity, think of the children etc, yet when Wasps came along and paid not a great deal more to Higgs it was a fantastic deal that went unquestioned.





I don't work with SISU, own a hotel or like rugby

Who hasn't questioned the Wasps deal? and as for SISU's offer which amounted to peanuts more than Wasps, but with Proviso's proved they had no intention of "Buying in" they only wanted information to take to the JR.

 

[skybluetony176]

They couldn't have "offered us rent at a low price" no.

Well they could have, if they had bought it and were running it before they were announced. I guess officially they couldn't

So they wasn't on the scene then?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

A statement made by Coventry City football club this afternoon said: “This morning the liquidator’s offer for a stake in the Ricoh Arena company, was turned down by the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
“Naturally, the club are extremely disappointed. Our proposal was for a far-reaching partnership with the Higgs Charity to work together on community projects. Our offer was a unique opportunity to meet the twin objectives of the Club and the charity, using the power of football and sport in creating community cohesion and for the benefit of the whole Coventry community.
“Despite the fact that access to critical documentation was denied, the liquidator’s offer for the charity’s 50% stake in the Ricoh Arena was generous – around £2.8 million."


Like I said, almost identical offer to wasps' but with proviso of wanting "Critical documentation" which could be used in the JR/'s

 

[Nick]

So they wasn't on the scene then?

They were on the scene and interested weren't they? Different from owning it completely

 

[SkyBlueZack]

A statement made by Coventry City football club this afternoon said: “This morning the liquidator’s offer for a stake in the Ricoh Arena company, was turned down by the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
“Naturally, the club are extremely disappointed. Our proposal was for a far-reaching partnership with the Higgs Charity to work together on community projects. Our offer was a unique opportunity to meet the twin objectives of the Club and the charity, using the power of football and sport in creating community cohesion and for the benefit of the whole Coventry community.
“Despite the fact that access to critical documentation was denied, the liquidator’s offer for the charity’s 50% stake in the Ricoh Arena was generous – around £2.8 million."


Like I said, almost identical offer to wasps' but with proviso of wanting "Critical documentation" which could be used in the JR/'s

Or perhaps they wanted to ensure they were getting the same deal as Wasps? Not being taken to the cleaners? Or is that what people want? The club to pay more than Wasps because of SISU? Couldn't make it up!

 

[dongonzalos]

But then they didn't offer £1.5 more to Higgs, that would have been £1.5m for everything. I was only comparing difference on the 50% so yes it would be £1.5m in total for the whole of ACL.

They paid 40% more than what JS is alleged to have offered and the ticket sales deal which is ongoing.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What if the majority of tickets in that stand are the free ones? Just a thought. Rugby seats behind the posts are cheaper also.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

They were on the scene and interested weren't they? Different from owning it completely

Wasn't Haskell, and Hoffman, and Elliott also on the scene? Not untill any offer is accepted can anyone "Have a say" in how the situation can be run!

 

[skybluetony176]

They were on the scene and interested weren't they? Different from owning it completely

So they were on scene in the same way as SISU were then?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Or perhaps they wanted to ensure they were getting the same deal as Wasps? Not being taken to the cleaners? Or is that what people want? The club to pay more than Wasps because of SISU? Couldn't make it up!

And you believe that SISU only wanted to "Not be taken to the cleaners?" To quote you... Couldn't make it up!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Or perhaps they wanted to ensure they were getting the same deal as Wasps? Not being taken to the cleaners? Or is that what people want? The club to pay more than Wasps because of SISU? Couldn't make it up!

Not going to argue with you mate. If SISU had made the same offer as Wasps without the proviso's, then I'd be as mad as the next man. So don't twist my words . Ok?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Given the previous with the council then yes. What would have been in the documentation that would have helped them with the JR? If there was, surely that would be evidence of wrongdoing by the council? Which I would hope you would like to come to the fore?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Weren't the provisos based on community work and knowing they were bidding on the same terms as Wasps? I'm not arguing with you, you make your point and I offer something in return. I would call it discussing and debating.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

How do we know the Wasps offer was not with provisos?

 

[chiefdave]

Like I said, almost identical offer to wasps' but with proviso of wanting "Critical documentation" which could be used in the JR/'s

I think you would find that the documentation would form part of due diligence and would have already been seen by Wasps.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

How do we know the Wasps offer was not with provisos?

“In rejecting the offer from Otium, the Sisu company which owns the Coventry City Football Club name and the licence to play in the Football League, the Trustees are fully aware of the possibility that they may be subjected to criticism, as they were by Sisu Capital Limited in the court proceedings between the Charity and Sisu Capital Limited earlier this year.”
“Notwithstanding the history of Sisu’s behaviour, the Trustees considered carefully the offer to purchase made by Otium through the Joint Liquidators of CCFC Ltd. In addition to the financial aspects of the offers, the Trustees considered all other factors.
“Amongst other factors considered, the Wasps offer was unconditional; the Otium offer was conditional. The Wasps offer requires in effect nothing of the Trustees other than the transfer of the shares.
“The offer from Otium through the Joint Liquidators is expressly stated to be non-binding and subject to a number of conditions. It contains conditions, none of which can be fulfilled wholly by the Trustees owing to duties of confidentiality to third parties.
“Further the question of ownership of the Option agreement has been made ambiguous by the Joint Liquidators.“


Perhaps next time you might make your own research

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ chiefdave... No proof what you say is true. and... SkyBlueZack.... Hope this is proof enough

 

[Grendel]

Not going to argue with you mate. If SISU had made the same offer as Wasps without the proviso's, then I'd be as mad as the next man. So don't twist my words . Ok?

PWKH said they had already agreed to sell to wasps before the alternative offer was even made.