Cyrus Christie (8 Viewers)

One thing that really irritates me on race debates is when people bring up the 200 years of slavery quote to justify why being picked on for being black is worse than ginger or fat or whatever else the difference might be to the 'norm'. Tell that to the kid who is bulied in the playground. I doubt whether he is black, ginger, fat, disabled, gay or whatever his reason for being bullied is, that he just wants to be accepted. A few years back this slavery slur was never mentioned, now its a way of justifying one over another when people make comparisons. The simple truth is that bullying is wrong as is racism and nobody should use anything to hide behind. It needs bringing to the attention of the public but for the right reasons so that narrow minded people learn to accept and appreciate everyones differences because imo this makes things more divisive and antagonises people who do not want disagreements over race, religion, money or whatever the current flavour of difference.

rob9872 said:

One thing that really irritates me on race debates is when people bring up the 200 years of slavery quote to justify why being picked on for being black is worse than ginger or fat or whatever else the difference might be to the 'norm'. Tell that to the kid who is bulied in the playground. I doubt whether he is black, ginger, fat, disabled, gay or whatever his reason for being bullied is, that he just wants to be accepted. A few years back this slavery slur was never mentioned, now its a way of justifying one over another when people make comparisons. The simple truth is that bullying is wrong as is racism and nobody should use anything to hide behind. It needs bringing to the attention of the public but for the right reasons so that narrow minded people learn to accept and appreciate everyones differences because imo this makes things more divisive and antagonises people who do not want disagreements over race, religion, money or whatever the current flavour of difference.

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Agreed Rob and I only raised it as someone used the "ginger" argument in a way I find very inappropriate: thousands of ginger people have not at any point been carried over an ocean away from their homeland to serve as slaves. When someone claims that "anti-black is just as bad as anti-ginger", the history is entirely relevant to pointing out why that is not the case. A black person would not have said that, and any black person who has researched their family history as far back as the point at which they find they are descended from slaves would be justifiably very pissed off at such a comment!

Nonleagueherewecome said:

Agreed Rob and I only raised it as someone used the "ginger" argument in a way I find very inappropriate: thousands of ginger people have not at any point been carried over an ocean away from their homeland to serve as slaves. When someone claims that "anti-black is just as bad as anti-ginger", the history is entirely relevant to pointing out why that is not the case. A black person would not have said that, and any black person who has researched their family history as far back as the point at which they find they are descended from slaves would be justifiably very pissed off at such a comment!

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But why that's like you say 200 years ago. We talking about 2012... Completely different nowadays.

Ginger people get bullied but I guess that's not as bad? Because any form of bulliness is wrong and is no worse or better then any other form.

CUS Wyken said:

Nonleagueherewecome

You need to realise something. It's the 21st century. Your still living in the dark ages.

Whatever happened hundred's of years with slavery is irrelevant. I'm talking about today 2012...

Racism is a two way thing... The PC brigade in my eyes have made this country worse which it's left Wing views. We live in England yet we are the minority nowadays. We can't celebrate certain days because it could upset certain Relgions. If we say anything about it then were 'racist' your words.

As for the black managers statement... That is very narrow minded thing to say. I doubt very much that the reason there's very few managers is because of there skin. John Barnes had his chance and failed miserabley for example. Paul ince another example.

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I'm sorry but you've just put yourself in the BNP box to my eyes. PC happened for a reason: to try and prevent prejudice. It used to be OK to call someone a "nigger". I'm sure we can all remember being at school, and if you picked up a penny, everyone shouted "Jew!" at you. It wasn't long ago that black footballers were subjected to monkey-chants and bananas being thrown at them on the pitch (ask John Barnes about the abuse he got playing for England): in many countries with less established immigrant communities (a product of Empire-look, history, relevant again!), racism is much more rampant than it is here. In the 80's, parts of our police force was still institutionally racist-and there are still plenty of nasty racist coppers about, as the stop-and-search statistics show alone.

History is always relevant: as Dennis Potter said, "It's not back there, in the past, to be looked at nostalgically-it's how we got here, and we should live alongside it, so that we can learn from it". And if you don't know your own history, ignorance is likely to fester and flourish.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Does it include Monty Panesar, Sacha Baron-Cohen, Dion Dublin, the bloke you buy your kebab off? Or are they all dirty foreigners? Man, you say I'm living in the dark ages? Yeah, what we need is a good old fashioned pogrom, it's been a while!

Why are they in this country? Were they not born here? Maybe their ancestors were brought here against their will whilst ours got rich and comfy on the profit they made from the enterprise? So what, d'yer wanna "send them all back where they came from"? England?!

Last time I checked, Christmas happened as per usual. It didn't get cancelled due to political correctness!

If you want to insult me by saying I'm left wing, epic fail: I'll happily admit to being what you'd call "left", although I don't like the label as it assumes so much.

I'm not intolerant, either: I like lots of non-PC comedy, like Family Guy, Derek & Clive, Ricky Gervais. But the difference between them & the likes of Jim Davison & Roy Chubby Brown (apart from the former being funny) is that they aren't relying on hatred to have an audience.

CUSW, I would imagine the Lawrence's would disagree with you there. I doubt many people have been murdered for having ginger hair and the comparisons are quite frankly laughable.

CUS Wyken said:

But why that's like you say 200 years ago. We talking about 2012... Completely different nowadays.

Ginger people get bullied but I guess that's not as bad? Because any form of bulliness is wrong and is no worse or better then any other form.

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You really just don't get it do you? Christ on a bike...I give up!

torchomatic said:

CUSW, I would imagine the Lawrence's would disagree with you there. I doubt many people have been murdered for having ginger hair and the comparisons are quite frankly laughable.

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Not just murdered, but also a completely botched up murder investigation due to institutional racism.

torchomatic said:

CUSW, I would imagine the Lawrence's would disagree with you there. I doubt many people have been murdered for having ginger hair and the comparisons are quite frankly laughable.

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Good edit there, fella. 'Cos it sounded like they were angry with me!

Well, I'm using my tablet and typing isn't easy. I was cursing you when youd posted before me!

stupot07 said:

Not just murdered, but also a completely botched up murder investigation due to institutional racism.

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Same could be said for Ross Parker's poor family eh. And you may ask who is Ross Parker well here you go...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ross_Parker

Now my Spider Sense is tingling.

torchomatic said:

CUSW, I would imagine the Lawrence's would disagree with you there. I doubt many people have been murdered for having ginger hair and the comparisons are quite frankly laughable.

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Who said anything about murder...? I'm on about bullies.

Like I said what about Ross Parker?

What about him. A murder is a murder, a terrible thing regardless of who the attackers were. You are making it racial with the old "its different when a white bloke gets killed'' line. Odd.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

You really just don't get it do you? Christ on a bike...I give up!

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You going way off my original point. I said racism is a two way thing..

If you didn't read earlier look at this what happened last weekend? Why has this been covered as a hate attack and not a racist attack? http://menmedia.co.uk/tamesideadvertiser/news/s/1475426_pictured-battered-and-bruised-face-of-trainee-chef-daniel-stringer-prince-17-after-gang-attack-in-hyde

To think this was all started by little Cyrus on Twitter! Racism is fundamentally the belief that you are superior than someone else on the grounds of race alone. No posts that I've read seem to fit that general description-indeed, whether JT used the word 'black' in his insult or not, isn't 'c***' far more offensive anyway? By condemning people for this sort of thing, all we do is reinforce the view that black people are 'different' from white people-when what we're trying to achieve is equality for everyone from all races. This is kind of a self-contradictory aspect of race laws-they imply the differences that they try to destroy.

torchomatic said:

What about him. A murder is a murder, a terrible thing regardless of who the attackers were. You are making it racial with the old "its different when a white bloke gets killed'' line. Odd.

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It was a racist attack yet according to you and Nonleague it's only a one way street. I'm saying there's good and bad in all walks of life. What can't you grasp?

Christmas has not been cancelled NLHWC. Just renamed seasons greetings by the poltically incorrect brigade

CUS Wyken said:

I remember the other week, i said that the majority of knife crime committed in London is by black youth hence why the police stop and search black people more.

I was called racist for it. Yet statistics from the police force showed the same.

Now for the telling the truth i was called a racist.

That’s the problem nowadays. If you say something UN PC then you’re automatically accused of racism.

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We all know the score, even the PC do-gooders, the only difference is some of us are open minded enough to see what's going on and admit it, que accusations of racism, whereas others would prefer to deny the reality, because in a perverse and backward logic kind of way, they think it shows how racist they aren't.

Surely, it's a Winter Festival?

CUS Wyken said:

What eveidence have you got to determine Terry racist apart from your view on the fella?

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Ultimately it is based on opinions based on what you know. We do know certain facts about John Terry from previous history. He has "form". This takes the form of inappropriate behaviour on several counts. This leads one to conclude he is potentially a tawdry individual and without his wealth the type of character you would not wish to accidentely nudge in a pub or walk past on a night out. It makes you form a judgement. If you were asked in a quiz which footballer was accused of making racist remarks and were told to select from John Terry or Garry Lineker who would you pick? Why?

Truth is he should never have been made captain in the first place. He was never fit for purpose and the reinstatement was the biggest error Cappello ever made. He was always going to be involved in another issue.

Innocent until proven guilty is irrelevant. Of course he is but this still means exclusion until trial is inevitable. In most walks of life you would be on leave with pay until the matter is resolved. There can be no debate about this at all, he should not even be playing football until after the trial.

Terry is totally self serving. He should have not forced the decision to be made but stood down. A man with dignity would have done this. Jason Roberts gave an excellent interview on Five Live about this and effectively said he would have real issues in playing with him. Others would think the same.

Now some will say what does Roberts know? He doesn't play for England and he is not fit to lace "J T's" boots. Well he talks passionately and with eloquence.

I know one thing if I was in the trenches I would rather have one Jason Roberts by my side than 100 John Terry's.

torchomatic said:

Surely, it's a Winter Festival?

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Seasonal greetings on cards and lights. What is wrong with CHRISTmas?

kduffy said:

Ultimately it is based on opinions based on what you know. We do know certain facts about John Terry from previous history. He has "form". This takes the form of inappropriate behaviour on several counts. This leads one to conclude he is potentially a tawdry individual and without his wealth the type of character you would not wish to accidentely nudge in a pub or walk past on a night out. It makes you form a judgement. If you were asked in a quiz which footballer was accused of making racist remarks and were told to select from John Terry or Garry Lineker who would you pick? Why?

Truth is he should never have been made captain in the first place. He was never fit for purpose and the reinstatement was the biggest error Cappello ever made. He was always going to be involved in another issue.

Innocent until proven guilty is irrelevant. Of course he is but this still means exclusion until trial is inevitable. In most walks of life you would be on leave with pay until the matter is resolved. There can be no debate about this at all, he should not even be playing football until after the trial.

Terry is totally self serving. He should have not forced the decision to be made but stood down. A man with dignity would have done this. Jason Roberts gave an excellent interview on Five Live about this and effectively said he would have real issues in playing with him. Others would think the same.

Now some will say what does Roberts know? He doesn't play for England and he is not fit to lace "J T's" boots. Well he talks passionately and with eloquence.

I know one thing if I was in the trenches I would rather have one Jason Roberts by my side than 100 John Terry's.

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You mention form? What form has John Terry got for racism?

Suarez who was found guilty has not got half te bad publicity which terry has had? Why is that? Kenny Dalglish still pleads his innocence... Does that make him racist?

CUS Wyken said:

Same could be said for Ross Parker's poor family eh. And you may ask who is Ross Parker well here you go...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ross_Parker

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I really don't want to get dragged in to this but there's a bit of difference between not getting much press coverage (but actually getting justice straight away) and having to wait nearly 20 years for justice because the police botched up the investigation due to institutional racism.

Ben Kinsella's murder got plenty of coverage.

Nothing, that's what call it. I'm trying to think what theyused to call it on my sons Thomas The Tankdvds. It was something stupid like Winter Festival.

Astute said:

Seasonal greetings on cards and lights. What is wrong with CHRISTmas?

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Talking passionately and with eloquence doesn't make an opinion any more valid than the next guys who may not find it as easy to get his point across.

Harry Redknapp isn't the most eloquent manager in the world, but I'd rather him be in charge of England than Jason Roberts, (and no, it has nothing to do with their skin colour).

Astute said:

Seasonal greetings on cards and lights. What is wrong with CHRISTmas?

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And schools across Cov and Warwickshire don't do nativity plays anymore and some school on rugby banned the word christmas and was told to use winter season holiday. Why is that? Because they didn't want to upset other religions.

Religion is the biggest culprit for hate in this world not race

Real said:

Talking passionately and with eloquence doesn't make an opinion any more valid than the next guys who may not find it as easy to get his point across.

Harry Redknapp isn't the most eloquent manager in the world, but I'd rather him be in charge of England than Jason Roberts, (and no, it has nothing to do with their skin colour).

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Or the fact that Jason Roberts isn't a manager and is still playing football?

stupot07 said:

I really don't want to get dragged in to this but there's a bit of difference between not getting much press coverage (but actually getting justice straight away) and having to wait nearly 20 years for justice because the police botched up the investigation due to institutional racism.

Ben Kinsella's murder got plenty of coverage.

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Ben Kinsella got coverage because of his sister. Simple. As for the incident last weekend in Manchester. The news appeal for the offenders has been very low key. Also the trial going on up Liverpool involving child abusers have had a media blackout. Why? Surely not because it involves 47 Asian fella's?

My sons school still has natvitiy plays. They are alive and well in Warwick.

CUS Wyken said:

And schools across Cov and Warwickshire don't do nativity plays anymore and some school on rugby banned the word christmas and was told to use winter season holiday. Why is that? Because they didn't want to upset other religions.

Religion is the biggest culprit for hate in this world not race

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kduffy said:

Ultimately it is based on opinions based on what you know. We do know certain facts about John Terry from previous history. He has "form". This takes the form of inappropriate behaviour on several counts. This leads one to conclude he is potentially a tawdry individual and without his wealth the type of character you would not wish to accidentely nudge in a pub or walk past on a night out. It makes you form a judgement. If you were asked in a quiz which footballer was accused of making racist remarks and were told to select from John Terry or Garry Lineker who would you pick? Why?

Truth is he should never have been made captain in the first place. He was never fit for purpose and the reinstatement was the biggest error Cappello ever made. He was always going to be involved in another issue.

Innocent until proven guilty is irrelevant. Of course he is but this still means exclusion until trial is inevitable. In most walks of life you would be on leave with pay until the matter is resolved. There can be no debate about this at all, he should not even be playing football until after the trial.

Terry is totally self serving. He should have not forced the decision to be made but stood down. A man with dignity would have done this. Jason Roberts gave an excellent interview on Five Live about this and effectively said he would have real issues in playing with him. Others would think the same.

Now some will say what does Roberts know? He doesn't play for England and he is not fit to lace "J T's" boots. Well he talks passionately and with eloquence.

I know one thing if I was in the trenches I would rather have one Jason Roberts by my side than 100 John Terry's.

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If he was adamant he didn't say these racist comments hes being accused off, then why would he stand down from his role as captain? Surely would be seen as an admission of guilt if he did. The FA have dealt with the whole situation completely wrong, it should have been done and dusted weeks ago.

Just look at the video. Guilty!

torchomatic said:

Just look at the video. Guilty!

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What the part where he said... I DIDN'T call you a black .....

CUS Wyken said:

Ben Kinsella got coverage because of his sister. Simple. As for the incident last weekend in Manchester. The news appeal for the offenders has been very low key. Also the trial going on up Liverpool involving child abusers have had a media blackout. Why? Surely not because it involves 47 Asian fella's?

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If there's a media blackout - how come you know about it? If it is true then I'm sure it would have been done for a legitimate reason, probably as not to cause greater racial tensions that may result in further violence and disorder, not to sweep it under the carpet.

Marty said:

If he was adamant he didn't say these racist comments hes being accused off, then why would he stand down from his role as captain? Surely would be seen as an admission of guilt if he did. The FA have dealt with the whole situation completely wrong, it should have been done and dusted weeks ago.

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The reason it hasn't been done and dusted is because of the criminal investigation.

stupot07 said:

If there's a media blackout - how come you know about it? If it is true then I'm sure it would have been done for a legitimate reason, probably as not to cause greater racial tensions that may result in further violence and disorder, not to sweep it under the carpet.

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I know a lad who works by Liverpool crown court. There were protesters outside. So it's ok to have media blackouts because it was Asian's involved. Wheres the equality there?