Match Thread Coventry City v Real Betis (Friendly) - 30th July - 7PM (25 Viewers)

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
I find this an interesting point. Our fans often state what a good coach FL is (and I am not arguing against that).

Wright and Simms scored 19 goals each across all competitions for us in their first season. That combined out scored the brilliant Gyokeres the season before.

Okay last season Wright 12 (but injured for a long time). Simms 7 exceptionally disappointing.

Now I am just throwing this in for consideration. Their partnership was broken up (I'm not suggesting they combined like Wallace and Ferguson). But their goals took pressure of each other.

What I am really curious about is, are our fans saying Frank can't develop or get the best out of these players.
Click to expand...

I don't think they suit our formation, Simms in particular.
 
Offhegoes

Offhegoes

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
I find this an interesting point. Our fans often state what a good coach FL is (and I am not arguing against that).

Wright and Simms scored 19 goals each across all competitions for us in their first season. That combined out scored the brilliant Gyokeres the season before.

Okay last season Wright 12 (but injured for a long time). Simms 7 exceptionally disappointing.

Now I am just throwing this in for consideration. Their partnership was broken up (I'm not suggesting they combined like Wallace and Ferguson). But their goals took pressure of each other.

What I am really curious about is, are our fans saying Frank can't develop or get the best out of these players.
Click to expand...
Frank improved so many players in his 6-7 months. Dasilva, Kitching ,Thomas, EMC, Torp, Rudoni, and got the best out of MVE and Saka.
Strange that none of our strikers improved. Wright was injured for a while granted. Simms despite looking like hitting form then stopped scoring. BTA was BTA. I quite like him actually as a squad player. Bassette probably declined slightly. He was hardly influencing games by the end of the season when coming on, compare that to the Sheff Utd home game where he was brilliant. He's going to have to work probably 3 of those 4 this season so it will be interesting to see. I still hold the belief Simms will come good, and Bassette too with more time.
 
C

CV22SBA

Well-Known Member
Viktor17 said:
There will be a lot of walk up for both I would think.
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Might be wrong but aren't the new turnstiles all digital tickets meaning there is no longer pay on the gate? think walkup is a thing of the past once people realise they have to buy the ticket on their phone first.
 
Irish Sky Blue

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Watching the Bristol Rovers friendly it really stood out for me how difficult it is to play as a striker for us and to make an impression. I am certainly no tactical expert but the amount of times that they, and to a lesser extent our midfield, show for a pass but are ignored, the preference being to play it back or sideways to our full backs or centre half. The amount of touches our centre forward gets is ridiculously low. I’m sure the goalkeeper has more touches of the ball in a game, never mind the centre halves. You can certainly say that someone like Simms needs to impose himself on the game more than he does but at the same time it must be really frustrating for our forwards who continually make runs but don’t receive the ball.

Again, maybe it’s me with a lack of tactical understanding, but the way that we used to play the ball through the thirds and have intricate little moves around the opposition box seems to have gone. Our main attacking threat seems to be getting the ball out wide and peppering the opposition box with crosses. Now the tactic obviously works to an extent considering how many goals we scored from crosses last season. I just think it would be good to have the ability to mix things up more and have more than one attacking arrow in the quiver. (you can tell I enjoy Indian films, as in Cowboys and……).

It is maybe that Lampard was just being pragmatic last season, using the most effective tactics to go with the players he inherited. I realise that O’Hare and to a lesser extent Palmer were big components in us playing more through the middle, but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be any sign of us bringing in that tricky number ten type player. ( Rudoni has been a great signing but for me a different player to O’Hare and doesn’t really operate in this way). However, after the Rovers game I feel we will see more of the same, ball recycled up and down each wing, little involvement from the forward and not much forward momentum through the middle of the field. If we’re scoring goals and winning games then I don’t suppose many will care. I just miss some of the fantastic moves we used to see. (think of O’Hare and Godden combining for the goal at Derby).
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Irish Sky Blue said:
Watching the Bristol Rovers friendly it really stood out for me how difficult it is to play as a striker for us and to make an impression. I am certainly no tactical expert but the amount of times that they, and to a lesser extent our midfield, show for a pass but are ignored, the preference being to play it back or sideways to our full backs or centre half. The amount of touches our centre forward gets is ridiculously low. I’m sure the goalkeeper has more touches of the ball in a game, never mind the centre halves. You can certainly say that someone like Simms needs to impose himself on the game more than he does but at the same time it must be really frustrating for our forwards who continually make runs but don’t receive the ball.

Again, maybe it’s me with a lack of tactical understanding, but the way that we used to play the ball through the thirds and have intricate little moves around the opposition box seems to have gone. Our main attacking threat seems to be getting the ball out wide and peppering the opposition box with crosses. Now the tactic obviously works to an extent considering how many goals we scored from crosses last season. I just think it would be good to have the ability to mix things up more and have more than one attacking arrow in the quiver. (you can tell I enjoy Indian films, as in Cowboys and……).

It is maybe that Lampard was just being pragmatic last season, using the most effective tactics to go with the players he inherited. I realise that O’Hare and to a lesser extent Palmer were big components in us playing more through the middle, but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be any sign of us bringing in that tricky number ten type player. ( Rudoni has been a great signing but for me a different player to O’Hare and doesn’t really operate in this way). However, after the Rovers game I feel we will see more of the same, ball recycled up and down each wing, little involvement from the forward and not much forward momentum through the middle of the field. If we’re scoring goals and winning games then I don’t suppose many will care. I just miss some of the fantastic moves we used to see. (think of O’Hare and Godden combining for the goal at Derby).
Click to expand...
I agree about it being hard for the strikers.

The only time they really showed any bite (apart from Wright's hat-trick) was Simms and BTA playing as a pair.
 
C

CV22SBA

Well-Known Member
Irish Sky Blue said:
Watching the Bristol Rovers friendly it really stood out for me how difficult it is to play as a striker for us and to make an impression. I am certainly no tactical expert but the amount of times that they, and to a lesser extent our midfield, show for a pass but are ignored, the preference being to play it back or sideways to our full backs or centre half. The amount of touches our centre forward gets is ridiculously low. I’m sure the goalkeeper has more touches of the ball in a game, never mind the centre halves. You can certainly say that someone like Simms needs to impose himself on the game more than he does but at the same time it must be really frustrating for our forwards who continually make runs but don’t receive the ball.

Again, maybe it’s me with a lack of tactical understanding, but the way that we used to play the ball through the thirds and have intricate little moves around the opposition box seems to have gone. Our main attacking threat seems to be getting the ball out wide and peppering the opposition box with crosses. Now the tactic obviously works to an extent considering how many goals we scored from crosses last season. I just think it would be good to have the ability to mix things up more and have more than one attacking arrow in the quiver. (you can tell I enjoy Indian films, as in Cowboys and……).

It is maybe that Lampard was just being pragmatic last season, using the most effective tactics to go with the players he inherited. I realise that O’Hare and to a lesser extent Palmer were big components in us playing more through the middle, but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be any sign of us bringing in that tricky number ten type player. ( Rudoni has been a great signing but for me a different player to O’Hare and doesn’t really operate in this way). However, after the Rovers game I feel we will see more of the same, ball recycled up and down each wing, little involvement from the forward and not much forward momentum through the middle of the field. If we’re scoring goals and winning games then I don’t suppose many will care. I just miss some of the fantastic moves we used to see. (think of O’Hare and Godden combining for the goal at Derby).
Click to expand...
Spot on post. No plan B was our issue sometimes last season and judging by the Bristol game there appeared to be no change. The only difference was the team that played second half did it better.
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I don't think they suit our formation, Simms in particular.
Click to expand...

I think Simms does when he is on his game. I still maintain a lot of Rudoni's goals were tactical goals reliant on Simms dragging defenders away to the front post.

I still question the service Simms gets. Just as much as I question his first touch. I also question his mental strength (that is not to say you can't be quiet, but you still need inner strength).

The other overlooked quality of Simms is when we are defending set pieces.

People criticise Wright down the middle because he drifts to the left. Exactly what Gyokeres did. I always said if Gyokeres could attack the right side of the penalty area like he could the left he would be a world beater.

On that point Wright has shown signs that he can link well down the left with EMC.

I just think it is easy to look to the new and the unknown for the solutions. But I also don't think you can just dismiss what you already have.

The bottom line is, without mentioning names, Frank Lampard has to bring a few in to upgrade the squads quality while improving several that are already here.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
I think Simms does when he is on his game. I still maintain a lot of Rudoni's goals were tactical goals reliant on Simms dragging defenders away to the front post.

I still question the service Simms gets. Just as much as I question his first touch. I also question his mental strength (that is not to say you can't be quiet, but you still need inner strength).

The other overlooked quality of Simms is when we are defending set pieces.

People criticise Wright down the middle because he drifts to the left. Exactly what Gyokeres did. I always said if Gyokeres could attack the right side of the penalty area like he could the left he would be a world beater.

On that point Wright has shown signs that he can link well down the left with EMC.

I just think it is easy to look to the new and the unknown for the solutions. But I also don't think you can just dismiss what you already have.

The bottom line is, without mentioning names, Frank Lampard has to bring a few in to upgrade the squads quality while improving several that are already here.
Click to expand...

I just think in the formation we're playing we need a striker who can play with his back to goal who can get hold of the ball and bring others into play, something Simms is woeful at.
 
Briles

Briles

Well-Known Member
Irish Sky Blue said:
Watching the Bristol Rovers friendly it really stood out for me how difficult it is to play as a striker for us and to make an impression. I am certainly no tactical expert but the amount of times that they, and to a lesser extent our midfield, show for a pass but are ignored, the preference being to play it back or sideways to our full backs or centre half. The amount of touches our centre forward gets is ridiculously low. I’m sure the goalkeeper has more touches of the ball in a game, never mind the centre halves. You can certainly say that someone like Simms needs to impose himself on the game more than he does but at the same time it must be really frustrating for our forwards who continually make runs but don’t receive the ball.

Again, maybe it’s me with a lack of tactical understanding, but the way that we used to play the ball through the thirds and have intricate little moves around the opposition box seems to have gone. Our main attacking threat seems to be getting the ball out wide and peppering the opposition box with crosses. Now the tactic obviously works to an extent considering how many goals we scored from crosses last season. I just think it would be good to have the ability to mix things up more and have more than one attacking arrow in the quiver. (you can tell I enjoy Indian films, as in Cowboys and……).

It is maybe that Lampard was just being pragmatic last season, using the most effective tactics to go with the players he inherited. I realise that O’Hare and to a lesser extent Palmer were big components in us playing more through the middle, but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be any sign of us bringing in that tricky number ten type player. ( Rudoni has been a great signing but for me a different player to O’Hare and doesn’t really operate in this way). However, after the Rovers game I feel we will see more of the same, ball recycled up and down each wing, little involvement from the forward and not much forward momentum through the middle of the field. If we’re scoring goals and winning games then I don’t suppose many will care. I just miss some of the fantastic moves we used to see. (think of O’Hare and Godden combining for the goal at Derby).
Click to expand...
The modern game is obsessed about not losing the ball. This is why it's a breath of fresh air when someone tries something different. Football has become quite boring as a general rule.

 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Offhegoes said:
Frank improved so many players in his 6-7 months. Dasilva, Kitching ,Thomas, EMC, Torp, Rudoni, and got the best out of MVE and Saka.
Strange that none of our strikers improved. Wright was injured for a while granted. Simms despite looking like hitting form then stopped scoring. BTA was BTA. I quite like him actually as a squad player. Bassette probably declined slightly. He was hardly influencing games by the end of the season when coming on, compare that to the Sheff Utd home game where he was brilliant. He's going to have to work probably 3 of those 4 this season so it will be interesting to see. I still hold the belief Simms will come good, and Bassette too with more time.
Click to expand...

The number of players you debate he improved is questionable. Dasilva possibly but not long enough to say yes. Rudoni was playing well in a struggling team but looked better once we found our form. So that one is half and half. Kitching came back after being out of favour, but I think that was down to learning from his mistakes and growing up a bit. EMC improved but he needed time to find his feet and step up, again half and half. Torp has always shown potential but was below the fitness levels and his progress had been hampered by injuries. Saka was coming back from a serious injury and I would say he is looking more like his old self rather than improved.

So over all the team improved over the season results wise. Some of that was the team turning the corner and playing with more confidence. Not all down to players being improved through coaching.

As you say the attackers were the big disappointment and probably went backwards. I think that is a mix of injuries, confidence and service. Not just lack of quality.

It is certainly an area Frank has to address. Whether that is with new strikers time will tell. But whether he sticks or twists he has to get it right.
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I just think in the formation we're playing we need a striker who can play with his back to goal who can get hold of the ball and bring others into play, something Simms is woeful at.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree with that. Like I said I think his first touch is poor.

But it is very much about blending the right ingredients. Sometimes you gain in one area and detract from another.

Finding the right player is easier said than done. One thing I would say and it's not down to Frank - but non of our current strikers have what you are looking for. Sometimes you have to play to the strengths you have rather than the ideal.
 
TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
I don't necessarily disagree with that. Like I said I think his first touch is poor.

But it is very much about blending the right ingredients. Sometimes you gain in one area and detract from another.

Finding the right player is easier said than done. One thing I would say and it's not down to Frank - but non of our current strikers have what you are looking for. Sometimes you have to play to the strengths you have rather than the ideal.
Click to expand...
Or you get to the transfer window and the new manager tweaks the squad with players that fit the way he wants to play better.
 
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