A lot of clubs deliberately confuse fans? I'm sure you're right to some degree but sisu take the biscuit. They could have put this ownership question to bed at the very start, and I don't mean from the first mumblings of stadium development or owning the ricoh freehold, I mean from day one of ownership. The fact that they haven't only lead me to one of 3 conclusions.
1) They don't have a forward thinking business plan so can't tell us.
2) Joy has a plan but TF and ML are incapable of understanding it so are unable to convey it to us fans.
3) They don't want to tell us because we won't support it as it's a hindrance to the club not a benefit meaning they will lose the last of the tiny percentage of fans they still have on board.
I find it hard to believe that scenario 3 isn't the most likely. After all if it was going to be good for the club we would all be on side and this would be a huge benefit to them in bashing ACL/CCC. Yet they remain tight lipped, why?
Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes
I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.
I'm saying you have no evidence that they haven't - and your lame reply is proof.
There is no evidence they will not negotiate
There is no evidence they only want the freehold and wouldn't actually take a long lease (ML said they would)
There is no evidence they would charge the club millions in rent if they owned the ground
They is no evidence they would pile debt onto the ground
There is no evidence that they couldn't have the unencumbered freehold (before you start ive seen businesses with sub contracts get taken over)
All the evidence you have gathered have been council based quotes. Its not facts and its not evidence.
To be fair in the article linked on this thread Joy clearly states in an interview that we have to own 100% of the freehold of the Ricoh and that she will not negotiate, so that's certainly the top 2 crossed of your list. I don't take any notice of what someone has said behind closed doors in private, it's what they announce in public that counts. As another poster has just said they're confusing the hell out of everybody and it's highly likely to be an important part of their strategy.
Unfortunately, I do not agree that SISU do not know what they are doing. They may be gamblers, but they have master plan in place and in my opinion it does not take into the account the best interests of the club and its fans. Many of our opinions are no longer based in football they are based upon our political beliefs. Those that believe in free market enterprise over anything else including the public, ethics and morales seem to think juggernaut SISU is alright so long as in the end THEY get what they want. Be careful what you wish for.
Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes
I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.
Fisher himself has stated "SISU will own any ground(Including the Ricoh) and NOT CCFC"
Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes
I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.
Because i do!!!
I've evaluated what i've been told and have come to the conclusion that the council have screwed the club over
I'm more concerned about what sisu intend to do with my club after the JR than I am about any possible bad publicity for ACL/CCC.
This is why I can't get on board with sisu ownership of the Ricoh. I don't know what the consequences are for our club and sisu seem reluctant to tell us. They don't need to win the JR to tell us that.
"Chalk and Cheese" difference between the two owners. Leicester owners actually WANT their team to do well. SISU CBA. I think you should wait and see if SISU get to OWN/LEASE the Ricoh or build legoland and see if they charge CCFC a rent along with the £1.5m pa interest and £2.7m pa management fees. Then, and only then, will you see if your argument/point "Stands up"Leicester own their stadium...... well actually they don't there owners own their stadium (the lease any way) its all under the King Power Umbrella, speaking to ML this will be near enough exactly the same with CCFC IF they ever owned the Ricoh or there own stadium! Also means IF any one wanted to by the club, then they would have to buy Otium or buy into Otium! I think theres a lot of confusion and it comes from the club and the way its interpretation to the fans!
Leicester now own their own stadium and wasn't ripped off by their own council
"Chalk and Cheese" difference between the two owners. Leicester owners actually WANT their team to do well. SISU CBA. I think you should wait and see if SISU get to OWN/LEASE the Ricoh or build legoland and see if they charge CCFC a rent along with the £1.5m pa interest and £2.7m pa management fees. Then, and only then, will you see if your argument/point "Stands up"
Do you mean that the stadium that should have cost 37m to build......looks like 28m was paid in the end via bonds which the club was paying back........was sold to the owners for 17m.
So at this rate the Ricoh would cost about 75m if sold. Or can you twist it into another way where it looks good for their local council?
Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do
Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do
Correct. So what is wrong with wanting a more secure future for our football club?
Do you mean that the stadium that should have cost 37m to build......looks like 28m was paid in the end via bonds which the club was paying back........was sold to the owners for 17m.
So at this rate the Ricoh would cost about 75m if sold. Or can you twist it into another way where it looks good for their local council?
And if SISU left and City returned to the Ricoh tomorrow who would own our ground? Certainly not CCFC. Our ground owning days ending a decade ago thanks to Bryan Richardson.
Personally, as long as the council are protected with some legal stuff then there's no reason CCFC shouldn't have the stadium and enjoy all the revenue that goes with it. Surely, even our most ardent Ann Droids must agree with that?
Why do we need to own the ground to be a successful business? The truth is ground ownership will load the club for decades with debt and hinder it's on field capabilities.
Yes you're right, BR screwed it up and our ground owning days are over. What we need now is the right rental deal for the Ricoh, at least until the club is in a better position to earn decent revenue and reassess our long term finances.
Thing is no one knows what will happen, everyone just laps up all the council pr about what SISU could do
Why rental???? why not a long lease and let the club manage the stadium???
Personally, as long as the council are protected with some legal stuff then there's no reason CCFC shouldn't have the stadium and enjoy all the revenue that goes with it. Surely, even our most ardent Ann Droids must agree with that?
Ok WM. I completely disagree with that. You ask for proof etc which is fair but no one on here has access to figures and don't work for ccfc or ccc. Now I like everyone on here but I am not certain and I would bet on 1 person to not be a genuine fan but that's not really my point.
My point is you and Grendel ask for proof which is fair but I and others don't work for ccfc or ccc so sometimes it's hard. We can't quote and find that proof.
Grendel said that 30 or less people would turn up to a sisu headquarters in Coventry. Now I can't prove this but neither can he so it's hard to take a side on this debate except that more than 30 would turn up and if you don't believe that then get tim fisher and joy seppala to stand in broadgate and publish the number. It would be more than 30 I can prove because me and my family would be there and that's over 30 for a start. Easy decision.
Now I now that this is not hard proof to you but If I said I ran the London marathon is 32 minutes would you need to see proof or just think what a donkey he is off his rocker? Now this is my point.
I respect grendels opinion and if he has a season ticket that he claims then great I won't distrust him but not paying ccc tax is probably why he doesn't care about Cov taxpayers losing out like I do. I don't mind ccfc getting a good deal as long as it's fair but I do mind a hedgefund holding the club to ransom 35 miles away for their own gain against my team and arguably me as a taxpayer.
Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do
The reality is Sisu are 99.99% responsible for everything.
The net cost of the actual stadium didn't cost £113 million to build wgen you factor in land sales and at best cost the council £10 million net.
More bullshit & lies, the £21M loan and the £2M ACL seed capital is in addition to this..
And all the profit from the council and sale to Tesco went on the project.
So it's not costing the city anything, is that your position? Or am I misreading your ad hominems?
You can get as arsey and defensive as you like, it's really no skin off my nose, but the fact is that this situation is causing damage. Damage to the city, damage to the fans' unity. There is a section of our support (you included) who have decided that they are correct in their opinions about the situation. That leads them to see those who differ as being in opposition. Which is really quite weird, because those who contest your absolute faith that you are fully and wholly correct are not actually in opposition, they (me included) are in the middle, ie believe several parties' intransigence have led us to where we are. You pay lip service to the 'all parties are at fault' mantra but defend the council and ACL with an almost religious vigour.
None of the parties involved in getting us where we are today deserve to be defended. I sometimes ponder whether or not it's the tribal element of football fandom that's fucking us all up (the you pick a side and support it 'til you die thing) but I'm not so misanthropic as to truly believe this.
People are just idiots.
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