Council Protest (6 Viewers)

[ccfcway]

A lot of clubs deliberately confuse fans? I'm sure you're right to some degree but sisu take the biscuit. They could have put this ownership question to bed at the very start, and I don't mean from the first mumblings of stadium development or owning the ricoh freehold, I mean from day one of ownership. The fact that they haven't only lead me to one of 3 conclusions.

1) They don't have a forward thinking business plan so can't tell us.

2) Joy has a plan but TF and ML are incapable of understanding it so are unable to convey it to us fans.

3) They don't want to tell us because we won't support it as it's a hindrance to the club not a benefit meaning they will lose the last of the tiny percentage of fans they still have on board.

I find it hard to believe that scenario 3 isn't the most likely. After all if it was going to be good for the club we would all be on side and this would be a huge benefit to them in bashing ACL/CCC. Yet they remain tight lipped, why?

absolutely !

Here is transparacy and the fans respected it !

Evertons CEO - "Everton accepts the close scrutiny of its fans. Contrasting with others, we stand up to that accountability. Fans have a right to know about their Club and we respect that. And almost all our fans respect there's a right way to go about getting the answers they want."

http://www.evertonfc.com/evertoninteractive/where-the-money-goes

 

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[Bennets Afro]

Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes

I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes

I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.

Ok, tell me why you think this?

 

[blend]

I'm saying you have no evidence that they haven't - and your lame reply is proof.

There is no evidence they will not negotiate
There is no evidence they only want the freehold and wouldn't actually take a long lease (ML said they would)
There is no evidence they would charge the club millions in rent if they owned the ground
They is no evidence they would pile debt onto the ground
There is no evidence that they couldn't have the unencumbered freehold (before you start ive seen businesses with sub contracts get taken over)

All the evidence you have gathered have been council based quotes. Its not facts and its not evidence.

To be fair in the article linked on this thread Joy clearly states in an interview that we have to own 100% of the freehold of the Ricoh and that she will not negotiate, so that's certainly the top 2 crossed of your list. I don't take any notice of what someone has said behind closed doors in private, it's what they announce in public that counts. As another poster has just said they're confusing the hell out of everybody and it's highly likely to be an important part of their strategy.

Unfortunately, I do not agree that SISU do not know what they are doing. They may be gamblers, but they have master plan in place and in my opinion it does not take into the account the best interests of the club and its fans. Many of our opinions are no longer based in football they are based upon our political beliefs. Those that believe in free market enterprise over anything else including the public, ethics and morales seem to think juggernaut SISU is alright so long as in the end THEY get what they want. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

To be fair in the article linked on this thread Joy clearly states in an interview that we have to own 100% of the freehold of the Ricoh and that she will not negotiate, so that's certainly the top 2 crossed of your list. I don't take any notice of what someone has said behind closed doors in private, it's what they announce in public that counts. As another poster has just said they're confusing the hell out of everybody and it's highly likely to be an important part of their strategy.

Unfortunately, I do not agree that SISU do not know what they are doing. They may be gamblers, but they have master plan in place and in my opinion it does not take into the account the best interests of the club and its fans. Many of our opinions are no longer based in football they are based upon our political beliefs. Those that believe in free market enterprise over anything else including the public, ethics and morales seem to think juggernaut SISU is alright so long as in the end THEY get what they want. Be careful what you wish for.

Good point, must agree with this statement.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes

I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.

Come on, why do you believe this?

 

[torchomatic]

And if SISU left and City returned to the Ricoh tomorrow who would own our ground? Certainly not CCFC. Our ground owning days ending a decade ago thanks to Bryan Richardson.

Fisher himself has stated "SISU will own any ground(Including the Ricoh) and NOT CCFC"

 

[skybluetony176]

Haha I have been taken in by the all the SISU shit??? We will have this chat in a month after the JR and then lets see how well the council sit in everyones eyes

I don't live in Cov either, but am just a tad pissed off with a council screwing over the team i support.

I'm more concerned about what sisu intend to do with my club after the JR than I am about any possible bad publicity for ACL/CCC.

This is why I can't get on board with sisu ownership of the Ricoh. I don't know what the consequences are for our club and sisu seem reluctant to tell us. They don't need to win the JR to tell us that.

 

[Bennets Afro]

Because i do!!!

I've evaluated what i've been told and have come to the conclusion that the council have screwed the club over

 

[torchomatic]

But you are not allowed to have those kind of subversive thoughts. Schmeee will be after you.

Because i do!!!

I've evaluated what i've been told and have come to the conclusion that the council have screwed the club over

 

[Bennets Afro]

I'm more concerned about what sisu intend to do with my club after the JR than I am about any possible bad publicity for ACL/CCC.

This is why I can't get on board with sisu ownership of the Ricoh. I don't know what the consequences are for our club and sisu seem reluctant to tell us. They don't need to win the JR to tell us that.

Thing is no one knows what will happen, everyone just laps up all the council pr about what SISU could do

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Leicester own their stadium...... well actually they don't there owners own their stadium (the lease any way) its all under the King Power Umbrella, speaking to ML this will be near enough exactly the same with CCFC IF they ever owned the Ricoh or there own stadium! Also means IF any one wanted to by the club, then they would have to buy Otium or buy into Otium! I think theres a lot of confusion and it comes from the club and the way its interpretation to the fans!

"Chalk and Cheese" difference between the two owners. Leicester owners actually WANT their team to do well. SISU CBA. I think you should wait and see if SISU get to OWN/LEASE the Ricoh or build legoland and see if they charge CCFC a rent along with the £1.5m pa interest and £2.7m pa management fees. Then, and only then, will you see if your argument/point "Stands up"

 

[Astute]

Leicester now own their own stadium and wasn't ripped off by their own council

Do you mean that the stadium that should have cost 37m to build......looks like 28m was paid in the end via bonds which the club was paying back........was sold to the owners for 17m.

So at this rate the Ricoh would cost about 75m if sold. Or can you twist it into another way where it looks good for their local council?

 

[Bennets Afro]

"Chalk and Cheese" difference between the two owners. Leicester owners actually WANT their team to do well. SISU CBA. I think you should wait and see if SISU get to OWN/LEASE the Ricoh or build legoland and see if they charge CCFC a rent along with the £1.5m pa interest and £2.7m pa management fees. Then, and only then, will you see if your argument/point "Stands up"

Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do

 

[torchomatic]

Personally, as long as the council are protected with some legal stuff then there's no reason CCFC shouldn't have the stadium and enjoy all the revenue that goes with it. Surely, even our most ardent Ann Droids must agree with that?

Do you mean that the stadium that should have cost 37m to build......looks like 28m was paid in the end via bonds which the club was paying back........was sold to the owners for 17m.

So at this rate the Ricoh would cost about 75m if sold. Or can you twist it into another way where it looks good for their local council?

 

[torchomatic]

No, and that's the annoying thing in all this. It's like a few years ago when people on here were actually WRITING letters to the council saying "don't sell, don't sell". Amazing, that they would side against their own team. And there's no evidence that SISU would do anything. It seems people are happy to moan about Northampton and equally moan about the prospect of coming back to a SISU owned Ricoh.

Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do

 

[Astute]

Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do

Correct. So what is wrong with wanting a more secure future for our football club?

 

[Bennets Afro]

Correct. So what is wrong with wanting a more secure future for our football club?

Nothing wrong at all. We all want the same thing

 

[Grendel]

Do you mean that the stadium that should have cost 37m to build......looks like 28m was paid in the end via bonds which the club was paying back........was sold to the owners for 17m.

So at this rate the Ricoh would cost about 75m if sold. Or can you twist it into another way where it looks good for their local council?

The net cost of the actual stadium didn't cost £113 million to build wgen you factor in land sales and at best cost the council £10 million net.

 

[skybluetony176]

And if SISU left and City returned to the Ricoh tomorrow who would own our ground? Certainly not CCFC. Our ground owning days ending a decade ago thanks to Bryan Richardson.

Why do we need to own the ground to be a successful business? The truth is ground ownership will load the club for decades with debt and hinder it's on field capabilities.

Yes you're right, BR screwed it up and our ground owning days are over. What we need now is the right rental deal for the Ricoh, at least until the club is in a better position to earn decent revenue and reassess our long term finances.

 

[Astute]

Personally, as long as the council are protected with some legal stuff then there's no reason CCFC shouldn't have the stadium and enjoy all the revenue that goes with it. Surely, even our most ardent Ann Droids must agree with that?

You know that I for one would be all for this, just like many others would be. I would be delighted for it to be gifted to our club and not able to get into the hands of current or future owners. All I would want to see would be Higgs getting most of their money back. But how watertight could any legal document be when SISU love litigation so much?

 

[Bennets Afro]

Why do we need to own the ground to be a successful business? The truth is ground ownership will load the club for decades with debt and hinder it's on field capabilities.

Yes you're right, BR screwed it up and our ground owning days are over. What we need now is the right rental deal for the Ricoh, at least until the club is in a better position to earn decent revenue and reassess our long term finances.

Why rental???? why not a long lease and let the club manage the stadium???

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Bennets Afro.....On the contrary mate, unlike Grenduffy and his "Estimated facts" My post IS fact. SISU charge CCFC £1.5m pa interest charges on a loan from Arvo and charge £2.7m pa management fees charges.....If you read what I said, "Wait and see IF they charge CCFC a rent" along with the interest, and management charges.

 

[skybluetony176]

Thing is no one knows what will happen, everyone just laps up all the council pr about what SISU could do

What have the council said exactly about what sisu could do? I seem to have missed them speculating on what sisu will do next.

I've based my opinion on what sisu aren't telling us, not what CCC apparently have.

 

[dongonzalos]

I think the point is and always has been most people want the likes of Rob with his energy and passion to join with Michael, the SBT and the CET. All get together and run a thorough campaign against all sides. Aiming to expose falsehoods and get us back.
This particular protest was a waste of time IMO. As is a handful of people going to SISU HQ.
all come together and galvanise us all into action.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Bennets Afro.....On the contrary mate, unlike Grenduffy and his "Estimated facts" My post IS fact. SISU charge CCFC £1.5m pa interest charges on a loan from Arvo and charge £2.7m pa management fee charges.....If you read what I said, "Wait and see IF they charge CCFC a rent" along with the interest, and management charges.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why rental???? why not a long lease and let the club manage the stadium???

This may well still saddle the club with a long term debt that hinders the footballing investments.

 

[ccfcway]

Personally, as long as the council are protected with some legal stuff then there's no reason CCFC shouldn't have the stadium and enjoy all the revenue that goes with it. Surely, even our most ardent Ann Droids must agree with that?

wasnt there "legal stuff" to ensure the rent was paid ?

 

[Spionkop]

Robo, just that the majority don't want to be united behind a cause that pillories the council, when they feel the council is not to blame.
The council may have been slow to reduce rent, that's about it as far as anyone can see.
The rest is down to Tim and Joy.
If - sadly - we do kick off again at Sixfields in August - (what a prospect) - I really do hope the SBA mount some kind of demonstration. Peaceful mind.
This debacle has gone on long enough.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Ok WM. I completely disagree with that. You ask for proof etc which is fair but no one on here has access to figures and don't work for ccfc or ccc. Now I like everyone on here but I am not certain and I would bet on 1 person to not be a genuine fan but that's not really my point.

My point is you and Grendel ask for proof which is fair but I and others don't work for ccfc or ccc so sometimes it's hard. We can't quote and find that proof.

Grendel said that 30 or less people would turn up to a sisu headquarters in Coventry. Now I can't prove this but neither can he so it's hard to take a side on this debate except that more than 30 would turn up and if you don't believe that then get tim fisher and joy seppala to stand in broadgate and publish the number. It would be more than 30 I can prove because me and my family would be there and that's over 30 for a start. Easy decision.

Now I now that this is not hard proof to you but If I said I ran the London marathon is 32 minutes would you need to see proof or just think what a donkey he is off his rocker? Now this is my point.

I respect grendels opinion and if he has a season ticket that he claims then great I won't distrust him but not paying ccc tax is probably why he doesn't care about Cov taxpayers losing out like I do. I don't mind ccfc getting a good deal as long as it's fair but I do mind a hedgefund holding the club to ransom 35 miles away for their own gain against my team and arguably me as a taxpayer.

Hi KoK, no worries about disagreeing...that's what a forum is all about.

I don't recall asking for proof myself (can't be arsed to go back and read!) but your point about people not being able to provide proof to answer Grendels questions is fair and justified. I'd back that up and say it works both ways.

A lot of what is posted on here is pure conjecture. There's no hard factual truth in a lot of the summising that goes on. I think the last court case probably told us more than we assumed and I have no doubt the JR will do the same.

But hey, the forum gives everyone a great opportunity to rant, right?!

Respectfully,

WM

 

[Jack Griffin]

Your talking fact from speculation. no one knows what SISU will do

So if you don't know their strategy why do you trust the people who took our club away? Odd..

 

[Skyblueweeman]

The reality is Sisu are 99.99% responsible for everything.

FFS! This is why people are so vitriolic on this place! Are you saying that Bryan Richardson is a max, 0.01% responsible for where we are???? Man alive....

SISU have right royally screwed things up...NO ONE disagrees with that. The thing that really pi*ses me off with this place is that some people appear blinkered and only think about the past 7 or so years. Yes, I know BR didn't move us 34 miles away to alienate 97% of the fanbase, but until people realise that our issue stems from more than 'just SISU being repsonsible', no one is going to get on in this place, which is a pretty sad state of affairs.

We all want the same thing...CCFC back in Cov at the Ricoh with a sustainable business model leading to success on the pitch. But all this 'SISU are 99.9% responsible' is total b*ollocks.

Respectfully,

WM

 

[Jack Griffin]

The net cost of the actual stadium didn't cost £113 million to build wgen you factor in land sales and at best cost the council £10 million net.

More bullshit & lies, the £21M loan and the £2M ACL seed capital is in addition to this..

And all the profit from the council and sale to Tesco went on the project.

 

[Grendel]

More bullshit & lies, the £21M loan and the £2M ACL seed capital is in addition to this..

And all the profit from the council and sale to Tesco went on the project.

The council have the loan - I thought that was the private management company?

 

[duffer]

So it's not costing the city anything, is that your position? Or am I misreading your ad hominems?

You can get as arsey and defensive as you like, it's really no skin off my nose, but the fact is that this situation is causing damage. Damage to the city, damage to the fans' unity. There is a section of our support (you included) who have decided that they are correct in their opinions about the situation. That leads them to see those who differ as being in opposition. Which is really quite weird, because those who contest your absolute faith that you are fully and wholly correct are not actually in opposition, they (me included) are in the middle, ie believe several parties' intransigence have led us to where we are. You pay lip service to the 'all parties are at fault' mantra but defend the council and ACL with an almost religious vigour.

None of the parties involved in getting us where we are today deserve to be defended. I sometimes ponder whether or not it's the tribal element of football fandom that's fucking us all up (the you pick a side and support it 'til you die thing) but I'm not so misanthropic as to truly believe this.

People are just idiots.

Seriously, how on earth can you post about ad hominem attacks when you're pretty much the worst offender here calling people idiots and wankers because they dare to disagree with you. You do know what ad hominem means, right?

If you want to debate based on facts, then this isn't a bad place to do it. But this is just rank hypocrisy - calling for unity whilst throwing in insults, accusing people of ad homs whilst calling them wankers!

Unbelievable. Do you read what you post?