Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2015
7,227
5,222
263
so you're lying, thats fine (y)
Go outside and take a walk ROS.

Honestly, I am slightly concerned about you. I'm not sure why you keep setting out to try and have arguments. We're all a bit frustrated at the moment, but you are coming across as completely unreasonable on a considerable regularity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grendel

Nick

Administrator
Feb 25, 2008
112,779
35,740
1,063
Coventry
Will be interesting watching the government react and play politics with the situation as they seem unable to decide if they want devolution or centralism depending on the circumstances.
The whole thing is about politics. Anybody who can make a decision is playing politics.

The media are playing politics.

Nonces.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
26,799
17,363
263
Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
From what I can see the only politics here is:

Johnson doing a Brexit Corbyn and trying to please both his newfound base (generally pro lockdown) and his party (generally anti lockdown) and as with all people stood in the middle of the road is getting run over.

Sunak sticking rigidly to his dogma despite interest rates being at an all time low and borrowing making sense.

If we weren’t scared of short/local lockdowns for those two reasons we’d just do the strategy as devised. It’s trying to square that circle that’s causing all the issues. Burnham wouldn’t be being crowned King of the North right now if Tier 3 came with furlough support.
 
  • Like
Reactions: djr8369 and Ian1779

wingy

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
25,996
5,096
213
Got to say I was quite surprised that Sturgeon was prepared to run with the tiered system .
Looking like an outlier now with the devolved power's .
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,576
4,638
113
We previously shielded everyone and that didn't work.

I don't really like comparing with other countries, but the data on Sweden suggests they are not having a second wave like the rest of the world. That should be investigated fully.

There has to be some common sense and ideas put forward on how to deal with this. I'm not a scientist and I'm not an economist, but I do not see how anyone can argue that the current method is working.
Did we? Last time I checked sending positive cases into a largely closed environment of the most vulnerable people isn't shielding
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
16,921
6,568
313
What’s Boris on about now. Announcing a whole host of new stuff he’s not got a cat in hells chance of pulling off
 

Bugsy

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
732
357
213
Coventry
MR Johnson : "In two weeks, there will be more patients in ICU than at the peak of the first wave,"

we need a 4 week national lock-down and we need it now or by Monday the latest. fucking with the inevitable the doughnut
 

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2013
2,604
1,217
213
MR Johnson : "In two weeks, there will be more patients in ICU than at the peak of the first wave,"

we need a 4 week national lock-down and we need it now or by Monday the latest. fucking with the inevitable the doughnut
Yes, but we must protect the economy.

How much of a sociopath do you have to be to toe this line?

Its all about the money.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2013
22,783
13,017
363
Yes, but we must protect the economy.

How much of a sociopath do you have to be to toe this line?
Well... I can understand the argument that if we run out of cash to fund the NHS, we're all shafted.

However we could, of course, consider raising taxes on those lucky enough to be earning, to help pay for rehabilitation both medically and economically of those who won't be after this finishes...
 
  • Like
Reactions: djr8369

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2013
2,604
1,217
213
Well... I can understand the argument that if we run out of cash to fund the NHS, we're all shafted.

However we could, of course, consider raising taxes on those lucky enough to be earning, to help pay for rehabilitation both medically and economically of those who won't be after this finishes...
Or we could of just raised business rates in the good times and used it in the bad.
 

Tommo1993

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
2,966
2,057
163
It was said that our economy wouldn’t fully recover for at least 65 years just after we peaked first time around.
As mad as it might sound we need to take it head on. First wave was catastrophic, not sure there’s a word can be used for a second one.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2015
7,227
5,222
263
Did we? Last time I checked sending positive cases into a largely closed environment of the most vulnerable people isn't shielding
Well, I would consider being allowed out once a day for exercise across the whole nation as pretty much shielding.

Sending patients into care homes from hospital is a completely different thing.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
6,213
3,676
163
It was said that our economy wouldn’t fully recover for at least 65 years just after we peaked first time around.
As mad as it might sound we need to take it head on. First wave was catastrophic, not sure there’s a word can be used for a second one.
Deadly is a word.... think that’s slightly more important for me.
 

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2019
904
305
63
Anyone here actually had the virus? I gotta self isolate as someone I know tested positive and I had been with them recently and she works in the hospital 🙄.
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2018
2,440
1,368
113
Allegations from Lancashire MPs that they were pressured into T3 with threats of transport lockdowns and withdrawn financial support.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
26,799
17,363
263
Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Well... I can understand the argument that if we run out of cash to fund the NHS, we're all shafted.

However we could, of course, consider raising taxes on those lucky enough to be earning, to help pay for rehabilitation both medically and economically of those who won't be after this finishes...
A country that has a fiat currency can’t run out of money.

As long as growth and inflation beat interest rates it’s always worth borrowing to invest.

It’s absolutely insane and economically illiterate to destroy the economy worrying about today’s deficit when you will need to spend exponentially more to get back what you’ve lost.

Jesus can you imagine these morons in charge during WW2? “Sorry we’re out of money for spitfires, got to keep the deficit under control” ... ten years later your deficit doesn’t matter cos you trade in Deutschmarks.

If we push millions out of work, destroy viable businesses, push people into mental health crises, it’ll cost us so much to get back.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
21,512
15,962
263
Yes, but we must protect the economy.

How much of a sociopath do you have to be to toe this line?

Its all about the money.
It doesn't protect 'the economy'.

As i've posted previously, 'the economy' to a Conservative (and New Labour) politician does not mean the livelihoods of the masses, it means the very wealthy.

The inaction the first time around left our economy in a worst state and now the job losses are piling up.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
19,930
21,345
263
the excess death rate since March is similar to the worse 7 months of the Blitz, were people then saying fuck going down air raid shelters any more, or wearing gas masks or shipping kids out to the country, let's get back to normal, get those kids back in school?!
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
21,512
15,962
263
A country that has a fiat currency can’t run out of money.

As long as growth and inflation beat interest rates it’s always worth borrowing to invest.

It’s absolutely insane and economically illiterate to destroy the economy worrying about today’s deficit when you will need to spend exponentially more to get back what you’ve lost.

Jesus can you imagine these morons in charge during WW2? “Sorry we’re out of money for spitfires, got to keep the deficit under control” ... ten years later your deficit doesn’t matter cos you trade in Deutschmarks.

If we push millions out of work, destroy viable businesses, push people into mental health crises, it’ll cost us so much to get back.
Inflation is the only thing to really worry about.

@NorthernWisdom have a read of 'The Deficit Myth' which exposes the completely false paradigm presented to us since the 70s
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,576
4,638
113
Well, I would consider being allowed out once a day for exercise across the whole nation as pretty much shielding.

Sending patients into care homes from hospital is a completely different thing.
We previously shielded everyone and that didn't work.

That was your original quote. Maybe I'm mad but when we talk about everyone I assume that to include the people in care homes.

Besides which we had the lockdown and the number of cases, deaths etc fell. We've opened stuff up and their rising again. So it's easy to argue that it did work as there's a correlation. Of course there will likely be other factors (the change in temperatures etc) that made a difference but when you look at other places like Brazil with a hotter climate than us that didn't shut down and their cases haven't dropped off it adds more credibility to the thought it was the lockdown that had the bigger effect than the weather.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
7,576
4,638
113
It doesn't protect 'the economy'.

As i've posted previously, 'the economy' to a Conservative (and New Labour) politician does not mean the livelihoods of the masses, it means the very wealthy.

The inaction the first time around left our economy in a worst state and now the job losses are piling up.
The reason the economy to them is based around the wealthy is because of the metric used to assess 'success'. As long as the overall mean average growth improves then the economy has improved and getting a handful of billionnaires significant increases in wealth is far easier to achieve than getting millions of people a few grand better off.