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Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
  • Start date Feb 23, 2020
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David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,731
LastGarrison said:
Not necessarily as they have the option of either adjustment or to self release into clearing if they receive an offer from another, more preferred university.
medicin
The rumour now is that the OFS introduced cap on student numbers (home/EU only) is not going to be enforced and at least one Russell Group Uni is rumoured to already be 2000 students over the cap!!
Click to expand...

Also kids who wanted to study to be a doctor are in trouble as these places are capped by the DHSC and Oxbridge colleges just don't have the capacity to take many people in.

You also have to take into account the issues with social distancing and you can see that a lot of these kids that have lost places are in the shit
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,732
David O'Day said:

Read some of these stories and try not to be fucking angry - the girl who was downgraded to a U in maths because someone once got a U from her school and the "standardisation"decided some from her school needed to get a U this year
Click to expand...
I read this particular story and it’s utterly disgraceful! Her predicted grade was C but she was bottom of the ranking.
This just demonstrates about the lacking of basic competency here - if that’s gone through any kind of QA post algorithm it gets corrected.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,733
David O'Day said:

Wow
Click to expand...
This is why I think certain schools may have had advance knowledge of how this would work.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,734
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The truth is that if a decision seems unpopular they reverse it and that forms the basis of how they govern. Now he has done something that will tell all of my students what grade I thought they should get.
Click to expand...
This is a side effect of this change. It will create some problems - significantly less than before but I’m sure your rationale will have been spot on.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,735
Ian1779 said:
I read this particular story and it’s utterly disgraceful! Her predicted grade was C but she was bottom of the ranking.
This just demonstrates about the lacking of basic competency here - if that’s gone through any kind of QA post algorithm it gets corrected.
Click to expand...

Exactly because she was bottom of her class (for the tories out there this was a small very good class where her grade even though it was bottom was a C OFQUAL decided someone had to get a U as someone once did get a U at her school.

Madness. This was the kind of downgrade that gets you having to go to a lesser uni, it's thekind of downgrade that means no uni will touch you
 
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,736
David O'Day said:
Also kids who wanted to study to be a doctor are in trouble as these places are capped by the DHSC and Oxbridge colleges just don't have the capacity to take many people in.

You also have to take into account the issues with social distancing and you can see that a lot of these kids that have lost places are in the shit
Click to expand...
Which was my original point about competition for places at for instance, Medical Schools and top universities will have only limited places. This year's cohort in the aggregate have had grades massively over-predicted at the top end.

A lot of students who get their teacher assessed grades this year who would otherwise not have performed as well in an examination cycle will have their competitiveness level artificially inflated. They may then decide to 'take a punt' and apply to what they perceive as a more prestigious place next year, instead of taking up a place at their university this year.

So the only way to square this next year would be for Medical schools, Oxbridge etc to allocate the same proportion of places to 'reapplicants' as they would in any ordinary year, lest we end up with a situation where there are too many over-qualified candidates who picked up their 'exam results' this year getting places at the expense of more able students next year. Interviews could help with this.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,737
Walsgrave said:
Which was my original point about competition for places at for instance, Medical Schools and top universities will have only limited places. This year's cohort in the aggregate have had grades massively over-predicted at the top end.

A lot of students who get their teacher assessed grades this year who would otherwise not have performed as well in an examination cycle will have their competitiveness level artificially inflated. So the only way to square this next year would be for Medical schools, Oxbridge etc to allocate the same proportion of places to 'reapplicants' as they would in any ordinary year, lest we end up with a situation where there are too many over-qualified candidates who picked up their 'exam results' this year getting places at the expense of more able students next year. Interviews could help with this.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

I'm okay with that as it's far more morally right than have kids from poorer backgrounds punished for those back grounds.

Top unis already interview
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and SBT
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,738
Walsgrave said:
This will screw over competent students from next year who will have missed months of teaching and also have to take the exams. I'm all for the concessions but the grades from this 2020 cohort must be presented to employers in future as a 'teacher predicted' grade and only that. Also disadvantages the genuinely able from this year's cohort who won't be able to differentiate themselves.

There's going to be serious implications for comparability as lots of students will reapply in an attempt to get into a 'better' university.
Click to expand...

To help with my planning I’ve been told that huge chunks of the syllabus have been removed to mitigate the Covid disruption. So students won’t leave having covered all they should have. To be honest I’m still freaking out about how to teach a practical subject with minimal laboratory access
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,739
Ian1779 said:
This is a side effect of this change. It will create some problems - significantly less than before but I’m sure your rationale will have been spot on.
Click to expand...

I’m thinking more in terms of receiving waves of parental complaints and queries-it puts us in an impossible position
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,740
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’m thinking more in terms of receiving waves of parental complaints and queries-it puts us in an impossible position
Click to expand...
Parents/students have to go through a subject access request if they want to challenge a grade we’ve given them. To be fair your HOD should be the one to deal with this as they would have signed off your grades so it’s on them now.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,741
David O'Day said:
No one is going to release into clearing as all the places have been taken and how to do you get a more preferred univewrsity than your first choice?

Removing the cap does free up more places but these places aren't unlimited as all they are likely to be is UK students replacing international students who don't come. Universities will still have a finite amount of kids they can teach a year.
Click to expand...
All the places haven’t been taken and even some of the Russell Groups are struggling to fill their places.

The option is now there for the students to contact universities to see if there are opportunities to ‘trade up’. Plus students may not have chose X university as their firm as they felt the conditions of their offer were unachievable yet in clearing universities lower these, some by a lot, giving students a better chance.

The cap was introduced to try and help out some of the smaller or lower ranked universities losing their students to higher ranked universities attempting to recruit as many students as possible due to a number of universities being in precarious positions financially (between 25 and 30 I hear). Lifting the cap now, after the OFS taking such a hard line, would be laughable and potentially see the demise of numerous universities.

Obviously places will depend on the physical space universities have but believe me if universities have an opportunity to over recruit this year they definitely will.

With regards to international students many are still planning to come to the UK but naturally this is going to be a lot lower this year and particularly from key markets such as China, Hong Kong, Nigeria etc for obvious reasons.
 
Reactions: jimmyhillsfanclub

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,742
LastGarrison said:
All the places haven’t been taken and even some of the Russell Groups are struggling to fill their places.

The option is now there for the students to contact universities to see if there are opportunities to ‘trade up’. Plus students may not have chose X university as their firm as they felt the conditions of their offer were unachievable yet in clearing universities lower these, some by a lot, giving students a better chance.

The cap was introduced to try and help out some of the smaller or lower ranked universities losing their students to higher ranked universities attempting to recruit as many students as possible due to a number of universities being in precarious positions financially (between 25 and 30 I hear). Lifting the cap now, after the OFS taking such a hard line, would be laughable and potentially see the demise of numerous universities.

Obviously places will depend on the physical space universities have but believe me if universities have an opportunity to over recruit this year they definitely will.

With regards to international students many are still planning to come to the UK but naturally this is going to be a lot lower this year and particularly from key markets such as China, Hong Kong, Nigeria etc for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

most places have been taken already but you know better than the education experts

bye
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 17, 2020
  • #30,743
David O'Day said:
most places have been taken already but you know better than the education experts

bye
Click to expand...
In fairness to LG given what he does I would suggest he knows quite a bit
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,744
fernandopartridge said:
In fairness to LG given what he does I would suggest he knows quite a bit
Click to expand...

in fairness the news is full of "too many students, not enough places" so I'll take the words of the many over someone who I can can see wants to prove he is right.

My Cousin works in admissions and they don't have enough space for everyone.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,745
Also as universities UK said it's just far too late for a lot of universities to upscale to meet demand
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,746

Not all UK students will get first-choice place, universities warn

Vice-chancellors say despite government U-turn, it will not be possible to honour all original offers
www.theguardian.com
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,747
Ian1779 said:
It does matter I know, I just find it sickening to see it exploited.
Click to expand...

It is exploited. Farage doesn’t give a shit about Britain, he’s probably made a mint betting against it and just sees the working class as a cash machine like Yaxley-Lennon does.

But they’re only able to do it because they’re the only gig in town. The left abandoned the things that working class people care about then whined when then right picked them up. If you want people to have a choice of voting for patriots who don’t use it like that then you have to offer that choice.

If you’re like most of the people I grew up with the only party close to your personal values are the Tories and these are all traditional Labour voters.
 
Reactions: TomRad85
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,748
It'd be revealing to know the extent to which the message of "don't overload the NHS" , specifically in relation to Covid and other conditions individually,lead to poor outcomes.


NHS coronavirus triage hotline stops nurses handling calls over safety fears

Exclusive: Nursing and non-medical staff stopped from taking calls after more than half of those audited were unsafe
www.independent.co.uk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,749
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The truth is that if a decision seems unpopular they reverse it and that forms the basis of how they govern. Now he has done something that will tell all of my students what grade I thought they should get.
Click to expand...

Weren’t they centre assessed? Was there no standardisation and moderation process?
 

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,750


Well this isn't annoying
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,751
Saddlebrains said:


Well this isn't annoying
Click to expand...

From wet markets to wet nightclubs
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,752
Am I the only one that wants to go to a water park rave now? And I can’t swim or dance.
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,753
wingy said:
It'd be revealing to know the extent to which the message of "don't overload the NHS" , specifically in relation to Covid and other conditions individually,lead to poor outcomes.


NHS coronavirus triage hotline stops nurses handling calls over safety fears

Exclusive: Nursing and non-medical staff stopped from taking calls after more than half of those audited were unsafe
www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...

The excess deaths at home figure remains high even where the death in hospital figure has fallen, think that tells a story
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,754
shmmeee said:
Loads of kids do that. What next? Stop kids playing in the CCFC academy from taking PE?
Click to expand...

Girl I went to primary with moved to Germany for about 5 years. Came back and saw her in 6th form and she was doing German A level. Don't think she had to bother going to lessons other than to find out about exam structure etc.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,755
David O'Day said:

Dido Harding to run agency replacing Public Health England

Tory peer has been widely criticised over responsibility for England’s test-and-trace system
www.theguardian.com

Did someone say something about being promoted over your ability level?
Click to expand...

"PHE needs disbanding as it's useless"
"who shall we get to oversee it's replacement"
"Dido Harding?"
"Hasn't she been in charge of the monumental fuck-up that is track and trace?"
"yeah, but she's one of us"
"Well that's that decided then"
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,756
David O'Day said:

Dido Harding to run agency replacing Public Health England

Tory peer has been widely criticised over responsibility for England’s test-and-trace system
www.theguardian.com

Did someone say something about being promoted over your ability level?
Click to expand...

Something else to be mindful of.

She wants the NHS to be turned into a US style insurance based system. Just as we're going into negotiations with the US in which opening up the NHS is widely believed to be part of the deal.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,757
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Girl I went to primary with moved to Germany for about 5 years. Came back and saw her in 6th form and she was doing German A level. Don't think she had to bother going to lessons other than to find out about exam structure etc.
Click to expand...

I hate a mate who did Urdu GCSE at school. Why not recognise talents TBH? I walked through Computing because I practiced it at home from an early age. Ditto my sister and Dance.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,758
shmmeee said:
Am I the only one that wants to go to a water park rave now? And I can’t swim or dance.
Click to expand...

Just jump in the pool and the thrashing about will look like most people's dancing at raves anyway.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,759
Walsgrave said:
Which was my original point about competition for places at for instance, Medical Schools and top universities will have only limited places. This year's cohort in the aggregate have had grades massively over-predicted at the top end.

A lot of students who get their teacher assessed grades this year who would otherwise not have performed as well in an examination cycle will have their competitiveness level artificially inflated. They may then decide to 'take a punt' and apply to what they perceive as a more prestigious place next year, instead of taking up a place at their university this year.

So the only way to square this next year would be for Medical schools, Oxbridge etc to allocate the same proportion of places to 'reapplicants' as they would in any ordinary year, lest we end up with a situation where there are too many over-qualified candidates who picked up their 'exam results' this year getting places at the expense of more able students next year. Interviews could help with this.
Click to expand...

I was thinking if a student missed out on their place this year many of them might reapply next year and have a gap year. With all the pandemic stuff next year might well be a difficult one to start uni with disrupted classes, accommodation etc.

Plus if the A levels students also suffer in terms of being able to be taught this year but have to sit the exams there may be a drop off in grades next year so this years kids upgraded results makes them more likely to get into a better uni.

Although I expect we're going to have a similar situation next year with kids wanting upgrading to reflect the disruption.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,760
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I was thinking if a student missed out on their place this year many of them might reapply next year and have a gap year. With all the pandemic stuff next year might well be a difficult one to start uni with disrupted classes, accommodation etc.

Plus if the A levels students also suffer in terms of being able to be taught this year but have to sit the exams there may be a drop off in grades next year so this years kids upgraded results makes them more likely to get into a better uni.

Although I expect we're going to have a similar situation next year with kids wanting upgrading to reflect the disruption.
Click to expand...

Not sure a gap year in a huge recession with no global travel will work out too well TBF.

And yeah something will happen next year, kids have missed a term of prep and that’s going to show.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,761
shmmeee said:
Not sure a gap year in a huge recession with no global travel will work out too well TBF.

And yeah something will happen next year, kids have missed a term of prep and that’s going to show.
Click to expand...

Also a lot of the kids who would of been downgraded unfairly are from poorewr backgrounds so taking a year out whne there are no jobs for them is not really an option
 
Reactions: Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,762
shmmeee said:
I hate a mate who did Urdu GCSE at school. Why not recognise talents TBH? I walked through Computing because I practiced it at home from an early age. Ditto my sister and Dance.
Click to expand...
My school has about 40% EAL but I don’t think we do enough of it. However as the DFE don’t value ‘home language’ exams as they are only allowed to be in bucket 3 and can’t count in the EBACC schools decide it isn’t in the schools interest (never mind it being good for the kid)
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,763
shmmeee said:
Weren’t they centre assessed? Was there no standardisation and moderation process?
Click to expand...

In my case I gave a grade and then the students were ranked across the year by mock result and topic test average. It would still be perceived as ‘my’ choice
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,764
shmmeee said:
Not sure a gap year in a huge recession with no global travel will work out too well TBF.

And yeah something will happen next year, kids have missed a term of prep and that’s going to show.
Click to expand...

The syllabus has been chopped to accommodate this I believe
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 18, 2020
  • #30,765
Brighton Sky Blue said:
In my case I gave a grade and then the students were ranked across the year by mock result and topic test average. It would still be perceived as ‘my’ choice
Click to expand...

When you say ranked across the year do you mean like the OfQual algorithm, ie they decided how many of each grade “should” be awarded and then used the ranking to assign grades? Or something else?
 
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