Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (23 Viewers)

shmmeee · Apr 26, 2020

The Lurker said:
Still didn’t answer my question.

hey? In English please. if you think its fine for certain groups to be stabbing eachother in broad daylight while in lockdown and supposedly helping the nhs and not burdening then god help you. last thing the nhs needs at the minute is going to stabbings. 4 stabbings in Birmingham today, 2 in cov last night. government will no doubt get the blame

“Certain groups”

fuck off mate. My point is you’re a massive racist. Now answer mine, what about melanin do you think makes people stab each other? There might be a Nobel Prize in this for you.

I’d you think only black people are involved in gangs I’ve got several people in Wood End for you to meet.

What’s your excuse for this guy? Man charged over petrol station stabbing appears in court

Fucking joker.

And don’t try and pull the NHS card (the NHS in which BAME people are massively over represented in its staff BTW), it’s actively telling people it’s got plenty of capacity. The people treating stab wounds aren’t the ones treating Covid and there’s far fewer white British drunkards beating the shit out of each other every Saturday so I think they’ll be fine.

tisza · Apr 26, 2020

The Lurker said:
there is videos on social media of the actual stabbing. i wont put the link on here as its horrible and not nice for the victim or his family but it is BAME

Shocking video.

fernandopartridge · Apr 26, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Boris is back!

It's like celebrating the return of Bigi

SkyBlueDom26 · Apr 26, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
It's like celebrating the return of Bigi

Erm okay?

Nick · Apr 26, 2020

Just seen that video, just looks like a normal day. Cowardly little rats.

Sick Boy · Apr 26, 2020

Open date for bars here put back to 1st June (luckily they 2nd is a public holiday)
Shops is around the 18th I think and hairdressers 1st June.
From 4th May it’ll be possible to visit close family within your region.

tisza · Apr 26, 2020

Nick said:
Just seen that video, just looks like a normal day. Cowardly little rats.

shocking how it ends up on YouTube within hours.

fernandopartridge · Apr 26, 2020

With Johnson back to 'work', it's becoming pretty clear there is a big push to get the economic pawns back to work asap regardless of the risk of death or serious illness. The Torygraph pushing misleading polls stating people want lockdown to end unconditionally, lots of air time given to cranks like Toby Young. Now the mass morgues are in place Plan A can be pursued once again.

I'm not sure if it is just being ignored that we're adding on 4k plus cases per day (and that's just diagnosed ones). I genuinely think we'll go to 100k+ excess deaths from this.

SkyBlueDom26 · Apr 26, 2020

Sick Boy said:
Open date for bars here put back to 1st June (luckily they 2nd is a public holiday)
Shops is around the 18th I think and hairdressers 1st June.
From 4th May it’ll be possible to visit close family within your region.

Great news mate, so happy Italy is seeing light at the end of the tunnel!

Wyken Sky Blue · Apr 27, 2020

I can see lockdown extending by another three weeks. The deaths just aren't falling, particularly on Saturday when over 800 were recorded.

We just haven't been tough enough with the lockdown enforcement, not like Spain or Italy. They deaths are just going to increase if people keep flouting the advice, either now or the second wave.

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Flying Fokker · Apr 27, 2020

skyblue1991 said:
I can see lockdown extending by another three weeks. The deaths just aren't falling, particularly on Saturday when over 800 were recorded.

We just haven't been tough enough with the lockdown enforcement, not like Spain or Italy. They deaths are just going to increase if people keep flouting the advice, either now or the second wave.

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So, social distancing isn’t working in your area? I think it’s working where I am. The only things I dislike is shopping and queuing for anything. Older generations seem to be doing this early in the day.

wingy · Apr 27, 2020

It's been unbelievably busy round by me the last 3-4 days .
Like back to normality.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

wingy said:
It's been unbelievably busy round by me the last 3-4 days .
Like back to normality.

People are getting fed up. The nonsense in London on that bridge won't have helped at all.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
With Johnson back to 'work', it's becoming pretty clear there is a big push to get the economic pawns back to work asap regardless of the risk of death or serious illness. The Torygraph pushing misleading polls stating people want lockdown to end unconditionally, lots of air time given to cranks like Toby Young. Now the mass morgues are in place Plan A can be pursued once again.

I'm not sure if it is just being ignored that we're adding on 4k plus cases per day (and that's just diagnosed ones). I genuinely think we'll go to 100k+ excess deaths from this.

It's actually where Johnson back might be helpful. Reports suggest he's not keen on lifting restrictions, unlike many in his party.

Wyken Sky Blue · Apr 27, 2020

Flying Fokker said:
So, social distancing isn’t working in your area? I think it’s working where I am. The only things I dislike is shopping and queuing for anything. Older generations seem to be doing this early in the day.

The last week I saw more cars on the road and people in the park compared to the start of lockdown it was almost like a standard day.

Lockdown would work but only if the public adhere to the rules and there are consequences if not.

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tisza · Apr 27, 2020

Sick Boy said:
Looking from the outside, I’m very concerned about the situation in the UK and the way it’s being handled in general, especially with the lockdown. Bars and restaurants will reopen in 18days here, which is testament to the plans put in place over the last month.

I appreciate it wasn’t you but some of the sneering arrogance about how badly other countries were handling it was ridiculous.

We're scheduled to start easing from May 4 but still going to be significant controls in place.
Early lockdown and people generally respecting it has kept things under control. Seemingly over 50% of deaths from retirement homes.
From here UK govt actions being questioned but also much being made of behaviour of people particularly in run up to lockdown there.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

Are they testing everybody who dies over there or are they guessing like here?

shmmeee · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Are they testing everybody who dies over there or are they guessing like here?

A doctor diagnosing something isn’t a “guess”

tisza · Apr 27, 2020

On a more positive note. My adopted daughter was allowed to reopen her stationery shop yesterday in Vienna after nearly 2 months closed.
Had people in buying something (not necessarily things they needed) just to show their support for a small local business even though money is tight.

tisza · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Are they testing everybody who dies over there or are they guessing like here?

If this is for me then answer is no.
One of the worst testing records in Europe.
Those that die on ventilator counted. Home deaths, non-hospital deaths not included. Don't have the autopsy facilities available here.
Govt keeping numbers low enough to justify their actions. Neighbour is a doctor who says numbers higher but new law is only Govt can release data/info or speak to media.

Sick Boy · Apr 27, 2020

tisza said:
We're scheduled to start easing from May 4 but still going to be significant controls in place.
Early lockdown and people generally respecting it has kept things under control. Seemingly over 50% of deaths from retirement homes.
From here UK govt actions being questioned but also much being made of behaviour of people particularly in run up to lockdown there.

Yeah, the enforcement and people obeying it seem to have really helped things along here. There's been surprise here about images and videos of how many people are out and about walking round in the UK, it's a very sharp contrast to how it's been here.
I think Serie A teams start training again from either the 4th or 11th as well.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
A doctor diagnosing something isn’t a “guess”

In which case what's the big fuss about testing if a doctor can just diagnose it?

People are obsessing about numbers and stats every day, they are hardly accurate and I am sure there's a massive drop in deaths from other things.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
In which case what's the big fuss about testing if a doctor can just diagnose it?

People are obsessing about numbers and stats every day, they are hardly accurate and I am sure there's a massive drop in deaths from other things.

The overall death figures are up though - that's an absolute.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
The overall death figures are up though - that's an absolute.

It still doesn't mean that the Corona deaths are accurate if people who die are instantly being classed as CovID.

How many less are dying of other things now?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
It still doesn't mean that the Corona deaths are accurate if people who die are instantly being classed as CovID.

It's safe to say it's had a large effect on deaths.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's safe to say it's had a large effect on deaths.

It will do if people dying of heart attacks of cancer are classed as dying from Corona.

skybluetony176 · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
It will do if people dying of heart attacks of cancer are classed as dying from Corona.

Getting pneumonia for any reason let alone Covid 19 puts an amazing amount of pressure on the heart for many reasons and if you die of a heart attack brought on by pneumonia as far as I understand in that case the cause of death is what caused the pneumonia as the heart attack is a side effect of pneumonia and the pneumonia is a side effect of something else. In these cases Covid 19. It’s a very simple trail, no Covid 19 = no pneumonia = no heart attack therefore the cause of death can only be Covid 19. Same with cancer, if you die prematurely while having Covid 19 whether your cancer is terminal or not the cause of death is Covid 19.
Doctors are qualified to make these calls.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Getting pneumonia for any reason let alone Covid 19 puts an amazing amount of pressure on the heart for many reasons and if you die of a heart attack brought on by pneumonia as far as I understand in that case the cause of death is what caused the pneumonia as the heart attack is a side effect of pneumonia and the pneumonia is a side effect of something else. In these cases Covid 19. It’s a very simple trail, no Covid 19 = no pneumonia = no heart attack therefore the cause of death can only be Covid 19. Same with cancer, if you die prematurely while having Covid 19 whether your cancer is terminal or not the cause of death is Covid 19.
Doctors are qualified to make these calls.

Is that like the young lad who died in Coventry of COVID but the doctor openly said it wasn't because of COVID?

Is every single person having a coroner investigation to see what it was?

This is what makes the statistics and comparing to other countries pointless.

tisza · Apr 27, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Getting pneumonia for any reason let alone Covid 19 puts an amazing amount of pressure on the heart for many reasons and if you die of a heart attack brought on by pneumonia as far as I understand in that case the cause of death is what caused the pneumonia as the heart attack is a side effect of pneumonia and the pneumonia is a side effect of something else. In these cases Covid 19. It’s a very simple trail, no Covid 19 = no pneumonia = no heart attack therefore the cause of death can only be Covid 19. Same with cancer, if you die prematurely while having Covid 19 whether your cancer is terminal or not the cause of death is Covid 19.
Doctors are qualified to make these calls.

one of the accusations pointed at Russia was the comparatively large numbers of deaths (yr on yr) attributed to pneumonia in Moscow in December and January.

skybluetony176 · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Is that like the young lad who died in Coventry of COVID but the doctor openly said it wasn't because of COVID?

Is every single person having a coroner investigation to see what it was?

That would take capacity in the coroner’s office, I doubt there is though. You’re taking one single case and broad stroking it by the sound of it. At the end of the day heart attack is a long known side effect of pneumonia and pneumonia is always I think a side effect of something else, the doctors have seen enough Covid 19 now to diagnose it so why don’t you try putting a little faith in them. They’ve earned that significantly more than they’ve earned your cynicism.

djr8369 · Apr 27, 2020

Grendel said:
If that really is the case though - no immunity - then what realistically are the options

Adapt life around it and test and trace as much as possible I guess.

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Nick · Apr 27, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
That would take capacity in the coroner’s office, I doubt there is though. You’re taking one single case and broad stroking it by the sound of it. At the end of the day heart attack is a long known side effect of pneumonia and pneumonia is always I think a side effect of something else, the doctors have seen enough Covid 19 now to diagnose it so why don’t you try putting a little faith in them. They’ve earned that significantly more than they’ve earned your cynicism.

That was one case locally and was in the local media.

So again, what's the issue with testing if doctors can just diagnose it when there are symptoms and differentiate it from anything else?

To compare death counts etc then surely every country must be using the same process to decide on causes of death? It's pointless people here put down as dying of Corona when they may not even have it when in a different country the stats are different.

fernandopartridge · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
In which case what's the big fuss about testing if a doctor can just diagnose it?

People are obsessing about numbers and stats every day, they are hardly accurate and I am sure there's a massive drop in deaths from other things.

It's all published Nick, there isn't a massive drop in deaths from other things - they are on the increase as well as the NHS is stretch to its limits:

Office for National Statistics said:
The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 10 April 2020 (Week 15) was 18,516; this represents an increase of 2,129 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 14), is 7,996 deaths more than the five-year average and is the highest weekly total since Week 1 in 2000

djr8369 · Apr 27, 2020

Grendel said:
It’s bound to be very low and though I’m not in anyway a conspiracy theorist I do think the deaths versus lockdown actions do not match up and you do wonder if the immunity issue is causing these actions

There is some correlation between lockdown actions, that’s clear based on how the curve has changed in countries who have implemented it, but I’d agree with you to an extent in that the correlation is not as strong as you might expect so there are clearly a lot of other factors going on.

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fernandopartridge · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
That was one case locally and was in the local media.

So again, what's the issue with testing if doctors can just diagnose it when there are symptoms and differentiate it from anything else?

Because you're talking about two different things, one is doctors putting COVID on a deceased person's death certificate, the other is about testing people who are walking about.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (23 Viewers)

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