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Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (73 Viewers)

  • Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
  • Start date Feb 23, 2020
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,341
CCFCSteve said:
Fernando, I was just raising one issue with the manifesto that I questioned. I know a lot of people who haven’t been to uni and quite rightly some question why they should cover the cost for others to go (I’ve said before I’d personally provide grants/subsidise courses where we need graduates. Also the fees appear too high and all unis take the piss and charge the max amount). From memory it wasn’t just a promise to remove future tuition fees, it was clearing all past debts.
Click to expand...

Clearing past debts isn't an issue, they're all basically sat on the government books anyway through the SLC. Most of them will never be repaid so why not just write them off now?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,342
skybluesam66 said:
the reason why Labour dont win elections, is because they give the Far Left too much air time
If they put their policies forward properly without the extremism, they would win elections
That's how Blair got in , however he then his failings over Iraq, that cost Labour for a few years

Next time around, they really need somebody who Traditional Tory voters can relate to in order to win them over . Corbyn was never going to do that
Click to expand...

What was extreme? Go on.

Actually, fuck it. Don't bother.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,343
Ring Of Steel said:
First off thank you for typing that, I can now copy and paste "Taoiseach"

Yes I think thats right- there are meetings going in between Fianna Fail, Fine Gael (sorry if spelled wrong) and Sinn Fein to thrash out a deal but according to the news there is a lot of gameplaying, bargaining etc going on and obvioulsy the Coronavirus thing means its taking longer anyway.

In fact scrap that- just googled and my adopted country is apparently going for a "Shilton/ Clemence" type arrangement where they rotate power, Sinn Fein out of the picture. Clearly as an Englishman in Ireland that instinctively makes me happy, although they are the growing force to be honest.

Micheal Martin to get first go as Taoiseach as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael 'agree' to rotating powers | The Irish Post
Click to expand...

FF and FG should probably merge and compromise, then realign themselves economically. McDonald can say till she’s blue in the face that unionists would have a place in a UI but surely nobody can buy that in the north
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,344
Brighton Sky Blue said:
FF and FG should probably merge and compromise, then realign themselves economically. McDonald can say till she’s blue in the face that unionists would have a place in a UI but surely nobody can buy that in the north
Click to expand...
That would wipe out ff and fg at the next election
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,345
David O'Day said:
That would wipe out ff and fg at the next election
Click to expand...

They’re getting wiped anyway
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,346
Brighton Sky Blue said:
But yet also got over 40% of the vote make your mind up
Click to expand...

Labour don’t play the election game.

It’s like a duopoly and you need to be the biggest shareholder every 5 years

Corbyn gained share as May was a disaster in the media. Once she went labour should have ditched Corbyn as he was a busted flush and had no appeal

Milliband was a joke figure. mr Bean and just a fool. Even the grisly odious Clegg swept votes off him
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,347
Just for you ROS:

 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,348
Grendel said:
Labour don’t play the election game.

It’s like a duopoly and you need to be the biggest shareholder every 5 years

Corbyn gained share as May was a disaster in the media. Once she went labour should have ditched Corbyn as he was a busted flush and had no appeal

Milliband was a joke figure. mr Bean and just a fool. Even the grisly odious Clegg swept votes off him
Click to expand...

I can agree with part of that. Actually hoping for people to read the manifesto and vote based on policy is a big error in this country
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Ring Of Steel

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,349
Grendel said:
Labour don’t play the election game.

It’s like a duopoly and you need to be the biggest shareholder every 5 years

Corbyn gained share as May was a disaster in the media. Once she went labour should have ditched Corbyn as he was a busted flush and had no appeal

Milliband was a joke figure. mr Bean and just a fool. Even the grisly odious Clegg swept votes off him
Click to expand...
You mean the 2015 election where the lib dems didn't gain any seats?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,350
CCFCSteve said:
Fernando, I was just raising one issue with the manifesto that I questioned. I know a lot of people who haven’t been to uni and quite rightly some question why they should cover the cost for others to go (I’ve said before I’d personally provide grants/subsidise courses where we need graduates. Also the fees appear too high and all unis take the piss and charge the max amount). From memory it wasn’t just a promise to remove future tuition fees, it was clearing all past debts.
Click to expand...
Invest in a skills base, and a country becomes more competitive, more efficient, and wealthier.

We all benefit.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,351
I know this is going to offend a few and I am not saying Ireland is getting it all right, I don't agree its all bloody perfect here, but the final sentence sums up what most Irish people really think of the UK when you take away the 'banter'. And this summation of Johnson & Trump for me is spot on.

Virus crisis reveals Boris Johnson's astonishing incompetence | The Irish Post

"THESE are without doubt the strangest of strange days.

I’ve never known Ireland like this. And yet, amongst the disorientating weirdness and the rumbling fear, I can’t help feeling lucky and fortunate that we are here whilst this is happening.

Looking across the Irish Sea I find myself thinking surely now, surely the British can see how they’ve been hoodwinked. Boris Johnson is incompetent in a way that is astonishing even to those of us who thought he was a mere showman charlatan.

The Irish government, by contrast, have been measured, controlled and capable. They have brought us along with them. I am, politically, utterly opposed to Fine Gael and to Varadkar, Harris and Coveney. But this isn’t about that. It isn’t about politics. It is about the ability of those in a certain position at a certain time to do a certain thing. And faced with the Coronavirus the Irish government have made one sure step after another.

They have made it clear, as to be fair have all parties, that this is not about party politics, this is about life and death. It is about following the science and sticking to the facts.

By contrast Johnson told you one week to carry on, everything would be fine, and the following week to not step outside the door. For a man so fond of wartime imagery there is one that seems to fit him. An image from WW1 that was used to describe British soldiers in the trenches and the generals that ordered them to their deaths. Lions led by donkeys.

Much like those generals, Johnson’s initial idea of herd immunity seemed willing to sacrifice thousands of you only for him to turn around in the middle of no man’s land and run for cover.

Of all the European leaders he has looked the most out of his depth, the most shallow, and vacuous. These are dark times and rambling verbal buffoonery looks as essentially useless as it essentially is.

And on the other side of the Atlantic Donald Trump, the leader of the free world, has shown himself to be petty, astonishingly vain, and utterly lacking in basic human empathy.

As people die, as people worry and fret, wonder what is happening to their lives and to the world, the American President toured the Centre for Disease Control and told everyone there how wonderful and clever he was.

We live in the strangest of strange days.

Even in the face of growing numbers of dead Americans the American President focuses on telling his country how great he is.

It is as if the man has the most insecure personality we’ve ever known.

Whatever the situation, surrounded by any kind of expert, Trump insists he knows more than anyone there. He craves attention and is seething with anger if ever questioned.

He is a giant toddler and there’s not one thing funny about it. Especially now.

So, I do feel lucky that we are here in Ireland during all of this. Leo Varadkar may well be a man overly concerned with image and PR. Fine Gael may well be a right wing party overly focused on the magic of the free market.

But that all seems irrelevant. What we have to our advantage is the fact that we are a small, intimate island. We have a small population. We have a social cohesion that has appeared obvious in these days. People are looking out for each other. They are being kind and generous.

I’m sure there have been instances of shabby behaviour, I’m sure some people have been selfish and self-serving.

Reporting back, though, from Covid Ireland, I have to say I haven’t seen that.

Out there in the basements of the internet I’m sure the likes of the failed Presidential candidate and fully paid up conspiracy theorist Gemma O’Doherty, and all those like her, are formulating their messages of division and hate. But that only exists in the virtual world.

Out here in the actual world Irish society has come together.

If we lose people in the close communities we inhabit we will feel it. It will hit us hard.

We are not fooling ourselves. We know this could get bad. But we are not being led or spoken to by the blustering and the narcissistic.

We’re lucky. I hope we remain so.

And I dearly hope you, our neighbours, our friends, and our family, on the other side of the Irish Sea, I dearly hope you get lucky too."
 
Reactions: Johhny Blue, derbyskyblue, djr8369 and 3 others

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,352
Grendel said:
labour are just rubbish at developing strategy to win an election
Click to expand...

Never more so than the last election.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,353
Warwickhunt said:
great ! can you imagine how hard it will be to get face masks? we will have a situation where people going into hospital have them and staff treating them dont!
Click to expand...
We got some delivered the other day by the state, I’m sure De Pfeffel and his gang are planning the same for the UK right now.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,354
David O'Day said:
You mean the 2015 election where the lib dems didn't gain any seats?
Click to expand...

it was phrased badly. Clegg was finished and conservatives targeted him strategically - milliband had no such strategy at all and in key areas still made no ground. They again targeted the wrong area whereas Cameron did - labour always think policies win elections - they don’t
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,355
Ring Of Steel said:
And I dearly hope you, our neighbours, our friends, and our family, on the other side of the Irish Sea, I dearly hope you get lucky too."
Click to expand...

Sadly that is literally where we are, hoping that us or our families don't catch it
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Ring Of Steel

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,356
Brugge awarded the title in Belgium, the more major leagues that adopt this approach hopefully the better for us
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,357
Grendel said:
labour always think policies win elections - they don’t
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,358
riyadhskyblue said:
Footballers contracts are ring fenced. They are bullet proof with regards to what clubs are able to do.
I don't quite get the urge to strip footballers of their salaries TBH, many of them do very good charitable things without seeking publicity and after all the clubs agree to pay them without having a gun to their heads.
Where I do agree is that when other staff are being laid off it is a supportive gesture for players to back these staff. However you would have thought with the shitloads of money floating about in the top league these clubs could hold on to staff for 3/6 months or so before pulling the plug, especially those that compete in the champions league, but if you get 100 million pounds for coming last then perhaps all should have contingency money set aside?
Click to expand...

A football team with tens, if not hundreds, of millions in guaranteed TV revenue each season should not be having to get rid of or furlough any staff after a month. If they're running out of money that quick it shows how much is wrong with the game and how the players/agents take far too much of the money coming in.

I suspect however it's them taking the piss to not have to pay a particular outgoing rather than actual financial hardship.
 
Reactions: wingy and CCFCSteve
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,359
Deleted member 5849 said:
Invest in a skills base, and a country becomes more competitive, more efficient, and wealthier.

We all benefit.
Click to expand...

Cant disagree NW but I don’t think uni numbers have reduced post tuition fee introduction (stand to be corrected).

As I’ve indicated I’d overhaul the system, reintroduce grants/subsidies etc and ensure students got value for their courses (would also take a look at some of the principals salaries !). Id also question a proportion who are going to uni when they’d maybe be better on apprenticeships/vocational courses (and invest more in this area) or direct employment. I know many companies/practices are taking on A level students straight from college and providing their own training/qualifications.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,360
Ring Of Steel said:
I have no issue with people accumulating wealth and material ‘things’ if they like, but keep a sense of perspective, do the right thing, pay your taxes, don’t be asking for bailouts and handouts- basically don’t be a prick. Problem is that soon as these people accumulate extravagant wealth they do seem to turn into pricks.
Click to expand...

Likes of Branson who constantly complain about govt interference in the private sector, then the second there's the whiff of taking some public money they're straight in there with the begging bowl and quite happy for government to get involved.

Wonder how many of these businesses that have furloughed staff etc will somehow find money for big remuneration packages and dividends....?
 
Reactions: djr8369, wingy, CCFCSteve and 1 other person

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,361
Deleted member 5849 said:
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
Click to expand...

Labour has perceived economic competence issues. So shadow chancellor is a key role. Labour will probably hand it to Butler or Burgon
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,362
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Likes of Branson who constantly complain about govt interference in the private sector, then the second there's the whiff of taking some public money they're straight in there with the begging bowl and quite happy for government to get involved.

Wonder how many of these businesses that have furloughed staff etc will somehow find money for big remuneration packages and dividends....?
Click to expand...

Stelios took a £60m dividend the day before laying staff off
 
Reactions: wingy

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,363
Grendel said:
Labour has perceived economic competence issues. So shadow chancellor is a key role. Labour will probably hand it to Butler or Burgon
Click to expand...
There's every chance it could Reeves a trained economist.

If as likely starmer wins I'd be surprised to see burgon in the shadows cabinet

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: cc84cov

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,364
Grendel said:
Labour has perceived economic competence issues. So shadow chancellor is a key role. Labour will probably hand it to Butler or Burgon
Click to expand...
Enjoy reading your insight to these type of things G
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,365
Deleted member 5849 said:
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
Click to expand...

The only interesting bit of this turgid leadership contest was name the best labour leader and none of them could answer. The answer is Blair and they were right when they said we’ve moved on from Blair as he was a winner and has been followed by a succession of losers
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,366
cc84cov said:
Enjoy reading your insight to these type of things G
Click to expand...
His election prediction for 2017 was a classic to be fair.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue and Ring Of Steel
S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,367
Eddie Large died from Corona
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,368
Sick Boy said:
His election prediction for 2017 was a classic to be fair.
Click to expand...

A Tory victory? Still with the right leader the landslide cane two years later
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,369
SkyBlueDom26 said:
950 new deaths in spain and 8102 new cases up from yesterday, prayers for Spain
Click to expand...
Wonder what the percentage of health workers is?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,370
Ring Of Steel said:
I don't know about political parties being under serious pressure yet, but there is certainly a groundswell on social media against certain individuals at the moment

Click to expand...
Yep wanker
 
Reactions: wingy and CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,371
skybluesam66 said:
the reason why Labour dont win elections, is because they give the Far Left too much air time
If they put their policies forward properly without the extremism, they would win elections
That's how Blair got in , however he then his failings over Iraq, that cost Labour for a few years

Next time around, they really need somebody who Traditional Tory voters can relate to in order to win them over . Corbyn was never going to do that
Click to expand...

Yeah this would make sense if the Tories hadn’t just won with their extreme wing not only in power but having just kicked the moderates out.
 
Reactions: wingy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,372
Sky Blue Pete said:
Wonder what the percentage of health workers is?
Click to expand...

So far it’s been 13%
 

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,373
Six-week old baby becomes 'youngest person in the world' to die from coronavirus

This is real sad
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,374
CCFCSteve said:
Possible other reasons for Brown - tarnished by the Iraq war legacy, the messy situation with Blair (the agreement/that fact that he became PM shortly after people voted for Blair in election) and labour had been in power for 15 years.
Click to expand...

Brown lost because that’s what happens when you’re in the chair when a recession hits generally.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 2, 2020
  • #11,375
Boris still showing mild symptoms so will carry on hiding
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Ring Of Steel
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