Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (108 Viewers)

[hill83]

The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.

 

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[hill83]

Efficiency will improve in the Belgium factory and it will be all good soon anyway.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Read what I’ve said, I’m with you on some of those things being investigated. Things change though. Regarding closing borders do watch the documentary and read the SAGE minutes. It was advised against (as was stopping large outdoor gatherings)...they felt it was basically too late. The decision, especially out of context, is obviously horrifically wrong as whilst it wouldn’t have stopped the virus, it would have given us/NHS more time to prepare by slowing spread. However, this was also when Vallance and others felt herd immunity (gradual, not let it rip) might be best solution/course of action - Again if people retained immunity after catching it, it may well have been a viable option (alongside other strands such as protect/shield elderly/higher risk etc). Unfortunately time and science has proved otherwise

Said many-a-time, got no real issue with how we managed it early on. It's the making the same mistakes further down the line, once we had more information, where I lose synpathy.

Anyway, off to the Covid thread with this

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Potential bit of good news

COVID-19: Breakthrough treatment claims to stop 100% of symptomatic infections

Makers say early tests of the experimental drug indicate it may "break the chain" of rising coronavirus infections.

news.sky.com

Getting closer to the Covid-sip at Boots!

 

[clint van damme]

That's the one Trump said was a cure a couple of months ago.

Edit: Just seen it's in the article

4 more years, 4 more years

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Oxford University's Randomised Evaluation of COVid-19 thERapY (RECOVERY) study

Did an infant get the job of writing therapy for them...?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Potential bit of good news

COVID-19: Breakthrough treatment claims to stop 100% of symptomatic infections

Makers say early tests of the experimental drug indicate it may "break the chain" of rising coronavirus infections.

news.sky.com

Science is brilliant

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.

The EU haven’t even approved it for use yet and as it’s an unlicensed product there at the moment it cannot be imported from elsewhere anyway. There are legitimate biological reasons holding up production of viral vectors in the EU sites. Also seen they are struggling with fulfilling Australia’s orders but it will likely be a genuine primary manufacturing issue.

The UK sites are working and it has emergency approval here hence they can meet the UK demand easily

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Speaking to BBC Breakfast, he admits that "when we look back" on the coronavirus pandemic he is "sure" there are "lessons to be learned" adding he regrets the early restrictions on people attending funerals.

But he says he is "proud" of how the government has "looked after the most vulnerable in society like the homeless and the shielded".

How can anyone be proud of how we have looked after the vulnerable in society!!!!!!!!

Maybe I need some time in bed my heads about to explode

 

[chiefdave]

We got in there first so the contract should be honoured. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

That would be how any other business would work. You go through the orders as recieved. If we ordered first we get delivery first.

Didn't we gamble and place orders way before we knew if it worked and promised to pay even if it didn't?

Of course if I was in the EU and being told there's no jabs to be had as we're on a waiting list I'm sure I'd be demanding something be done, especially if while being told there was none available they were being exported to other countries.

Certainly questions to be asked about how many orders were accepted and more importanly what promises were made about delivery times and how realistic those promises were.

 

[David O'Day]

The EU haven’t even approved it for use yet and as it’s an unlicensed product there at the moment it cannot be imported from elsewhere anyway. There are legitimate biological reasons holding up production of viral vectors in the EU sites. Also seen they are struggling with fulfilling Australia’s orders but it will likely be a genuine primary manufacturing issue.

The UK sites are working and it has emergency approval here hence they can meet the UK demand easily

That's the argument but as I said the EU isn't accepting that.

I'm not saying it's right but as AZ have pulled out of a meeting with the EU scheduled for Wednesday the EU will take some form of action.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's the argument but as I said the EU isn't accepting that.

I'm not saying it's right but as AZ have pulled out of a meeting with the EU scheduled for Wednesday the EU will take some form of action.

The EU’s scientific advisers should know better assuming they have worked in primary manufacture before. It isn’t some cynical ploy by AZ to lose business. It is also still within the remit of any EU state to give them emergency approval before an EU license is granted.

 

[David O'Day]

The EU’s scientific advisers should know better assuming they have worked in primary manufacture before. It isn’t some cynical ploy by AZ to lose business. It is also still within the remit of any EU state to give them emergency approval before an EU license is granted.

AZ shouldn't just flounce away from planned meetings with people who have ponied up 300 million in advance.

The EU is legally allowed to block exports of things.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The EU have dropped a massive bollock on procurement & approval....... They are now attempting to cover their arse by planning to reduce the use of the AZ vaccine & only use in on under 65s......which is a spin-tastic get-out that even the tories would be proud of.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

AZ shouldn't just flounce away from planned meetings with people who have ponied up 300 million in advance.

The EU is legally allowed to block exports of things.

A member state could emergency approve it tomorrow if they wanted.

 

[David O'Day]

A member state could emergency approve it tomorrow if they wanted.

And would that give them the vaccines they need? So you can see why the EU is trying to look after the EU.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And would that give them the vaccines they need? So you can see why the EU is trying to look after the EU.

You can see why a company is prioritising a market where they already have approval and working production sites over one where it is unclear that it goes beyond a ‘best effort’ agreement. AZ cannot magic wand fix the EU production sites and making threats to the company isn’t going to accelerate the process.

They could try and bully Pfizer into not exporting to the UK, and we could then do the same with our AZ exports. Best to just get the production issues fixed and not start indulging in daft disputes

 

[David O'Day]

You can see why a company is prioritising a market where they already have approval and working production sites over one where it is unclear that it goes beyond a ‘best effort’ agreement. AZ cannot magic wand fix the EU production sites and making threats to the company isn’t going to accelerate the process.

They could try and bully Pfizer into not exporting to the UK, and we could then do the same with our AZ exports. Best to just get the production issues fixed and not start indulging in daft disputes

But we lose out more in that as the UK AZ is for the AZ market so we would lose out on Pfizer vaccines.

Even you can see that it is surely better to come to some sort of agreement rather flouncing off like AZ have done.

 

[David O'Day]

And also they don't have to bully anyone, they can legally as has bene pointed just say no vaccines made in the EU ca be exported out the EU

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But we lose out more in that as the UK AZ is for the AZ market so we would lose out on Pfizer vaccines.

Even you can see that it is surely better to come to some sort of agreement rather flouncing off like AZ have done.

Even me, unlike you, has worked in primary pharmaceutical manufacture in the past. They aren’t holding back supplies they already have, there’s a problem affecting production. There is no incentive for them not to meet the supply.

 

[David O'Day]

Even me, unlike you, has worked in primary pharmaceutical manufacture in the past. They aren’t holding back supplies they already have, there’s a problem affecting production. There is no incentive for them not to meet the supply.

That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone

The EU isn’t the only market they are having trouble supplying.

 

[jordan210]

Im sure I read somewhere about an interview with the boss of AZ who said they could pull out of the Eu deal.

It's all going to get a bit messy and isn't helped by the German gutter press. But EU member states will not be happy with the way this is being played out.

Get the popcorn out lads. Gonna be a blockbuster coming up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im sure I read somewhere about an interview with the boss of AZ who said they could pull out of the Eu deal.

It's all going to get a bit messy and isn't helped by the German gutter press. But EU member states will not be happy with the way this is being played out.

Get the popcorn out lads. Gonna be a blockbuster coming up.

The AZ boss argues that there was no signed obligation to fulfil all of the orders, just a ‘best effort’ agreeement. The EU argues the opposite in which case they could easily publish the proof.

 

[Liquid Gold]

This is fucking horrific

 

[fernandopartridge]

The EU's argument is they paid in full up front and thus partly funded the research of the vaccine.

Sadly this isn't going to go away and AZ will need to sort something out as the EU isn't going to sit back and accept only 605 ofg the vaccines it needs.

That is not the argument that the EU is saying.

The EU is saying why when you can supply other markets can you not fulfil our order we paid in cash up front for.

As i said flouncing away like AZ have done today isn't going to help anyone

The EU's contractual dispute with them does not mean that AZ shouldn't honour its contract with the UK. Two wrongs don't make a
right.

Threatening to use the law to ban exports to third countries is Trumpian, let's be honest.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The EU isn’t the only market they are having trouble supplying.

I get the feeling that the UK isn't immune from their supply issues either.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I get the feeling that the UK isn't immune from their supply issues either.

Which is quite possible, but it won’t be for some sinister reason and is why we have ordered from a load of different suppliers.

 

[shmmeee]

I think the main difference between pre and post vaccine strategy has been that there’s no Tory backbencher against rapid vaccination. No matter where you stand, whether it’s humanitarian or economic or freedom concerns, mass vaccinations as quickly as possible are the answer.

Also the fact that supplies will have been procured through large existing companies means no chance for the usual cronyism.

The lockdown strategy has been beset by Johnson’s weakness and inability to accept people not liking him and he’s ended up dithering and waiting to the last minute and fudging trying to keep all the lobbyists happy.

 

[David O'Day]

The AZ boss argues that there was no signed obligation to fulfil all of the orders, just a ‘best effort’ agreeement. The EU argues the opposite in which case they could easily publish the proof.

Best effort? They paid 300 million up front which is a pretty valid contract of sale.

 

[David O'Day]

The EU's contractual dispute with them does not mean that AZ shouldn't honour its contract with the UK. Two wrongs don't make a
right.

Threatening to use the law to ban exports to third countries is Trumpian, let's be honest.

If the shoe was on the other foot then the clamour to ban exports would be deafening which I just find a tad hypocritical.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Best effort? They paid 300 million up front which is a pretty valid contract of sale.

No necessarily - if the contract is just based on best endeavours then they're paying £300m for that. It'd be interesting to see the contract.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If the shoe was on the other foot then the clamour to ban exports would be deafening which I just find a tad hypocritical.

I agree but it doesn't make it right.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Best effort? They paid 300 million up front which is a pretty valid contract of sale.

No it is a type of agreement that accounts for unexpected production issues.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think the main difference between pre and post vaccine strategy has been that there’s no Tory backbencher against rapid vaccination. No matter where you stand, whether it’s humanitarian or economic or freedom concerns, mass vaccinations as quickly as possible are the answer.

Also the fact that supplies will have been procured through large existing companies means no chance for the usual cronyism.

The lockdown strategy has been beset by Johnson’s weakness and inability to accept people not liking him and he’s ended up dithering and waiting to the last minute and fudging trying to keep all the lobbyists happy.

He’s like some of the worst teachers I’ve worked with