Are SISU bad owners? (1 Viewer)

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Of course the council don't escape blame for how the Wasps sale was orchestrated. But they were given the chance and the excuse to do so by our self-imposed exile and Joy's refusal to allow the club to sign revised terms. It was a gamble that has permanently cost us the ground.
The council were hostile from the beginning - we had access to buy 50% for a formula price for a 45 year lease.

They also quoted us 26 million for F&B - ludicrous price.

The council half was never up for sale to us.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Fair enough, I miss read that bit then :)

I don't think there has been any evidence that we were offered half the Ricoh (again happy to be corrected) but as I said before I really do think you can split their tenure into two periods, first one they were terrible terrible owners, second one much better and at least we still have a club

Shortly after they bought the club it was expected that they were going to buy the Higgs' stake. Ranson commented on it around that time to say they weren't interested, presumably because they thought the club would be promoted quickly and sold at a profit. When that went pear shaped the strategy obviously shifted to getting at least a stake in the ground if not all of it. I don't see how being stuck in the bottom 2 divisions can be seen as 'much better' and having a club in existence is the absolute bare minimum to expect. They have taken up pursuing legals for years while Fisher and Boddy run it day to day.
 

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
Of course the council don't escape blame for how the Wasps sale was orchestrated. But they were given the chance and the excuse to do so by our self-imposed exile and Joy's refusal to allow the club to sign revised terms. It was a gamble that has permanently cost us the ground.

But it's been proven they were talking to wasps before the revised quote and the move to Northampton (don't get me wrong, the club doing that was an appalling thing to do) and it's been proven that there was never any intention for the council to do a deal with Sisu as they wanted to get wasps in and we're using the negotiations with Sisu to hide behind...

The reason why we are in Birmingham now is almost entirely the council's fault.. and it's obvious they are worried about the wasps experiment failing which is why they refuse to engage with Sisu over woodlands as if the club build their own stadium and wasps go to shit (which is a very real possibility) then they are left with an empty white elephant ricoh
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Why do people not realise that it isn't SISU 'bankrolling' Robins but instead recycling of money from player sales?

Well it's a bit of both really. They're using the transfer fees but there is also an annual loss that needs to be covered by SISU (which they do stand to gain from long term)
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
But it's been proven they were talking to wasps before the revised quote and the move to Northampton (don't get me wrong, the club doing that was an appalling thing to do) and it's been proven that there was never any intention for the council to do a deal with Sisu as they wanted to get wasps in and we're using the negotiations with Sisu to hide behind...

The reason why we are in Birmingham now is almost entirely the council's fault.. and it's obvious they are worried about the wasps experiment failing which is why they refuse to engage with Sisu over woodlands as if the club build their own stadium and wasps go to shit (which is a very real possibility) then they are left with an empty white elephant ricoh

Go back further.
 

richnrg

Well-Known Member
..which is why they refuse to engage with Sisu over woodlands as if the club build their own stadium and wasps go to shit (which is a very real possibility) then they are left with an empty white elephant ricoh

surely SISU don't have (and have never had) any intention whatsoever to build a stadium
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
It would be unfair to simply say SISU have been all bad. There are things like cost control that they have improved, the club is more stable, recovering not just from previous owners instability but also the instability SISU had a large part in creating under their tenure

Day to day running of the club has improved recently as has the communication and you would have credit SISU with input in to that but the idea that the club is living within its means is a fallacy. It isn't, over the financial three years 2016 to 2018 they had to put a net £1.17m into the club to keep it afloat. The alternative to not meeting the day to day running costs was insolvency. SISU have been bank of last resort, otherwise CCFC could not have paid its bills. The club is not profitable in each of the financial years to date under their stewardship. Indeed even if you exclude the interest payment it still isn't profitable in 2018 despite £973K in player sales.

Since the administration in 2013 when the deficit on the balance sheet was zero they have put the club (Otium) in to a deeper financial hole of over 19m. Since 2008 SBS&L Group shows total losses of £55m with SISU in control. Hardly prudent management of a club with few assets and restricted income streams and off the back of a clean slate regarding previous owners.

If self sufficiency (which we have not achieved) is such a good idea (and it is) then why didn't they do it from the start. Gambling with the club is not prudent or clever, just the same as it isn't for any other club or owners. They could at the start have come in and said "we saved the club but now we need to safeguard its future" they didn't they gambled until they ran out of money. Running out of money is probably what drove this so far failed drive to self sufficiency, it was not the plan because the plan was to have been long gone by now.

There is no evidence of admin fees being paid to SISU btw.

On the pitch things have improved recently and i think this clouds peoples memory. Things are looking good now but lets see where we are next May. But under SISU we have been relegated twice, achieved our lowest position in 50 years (and it could have been worse), had more bad seasons than good against which we had one cup win and one promotion.

Off the pitch, SISU have made numerous decisions that have focused on their investors needs not the strategy needed for a successful sustainable club. CCFC became a tool in a high stakes game and is still at risk. A business cannot operate in a bubble "of my way or the highway" it must develop positive relationships and it hasn't with key stake holders in Coventry. Yes there has to be forceful dialogue the owners must fight the clubs corner but SISU fight for their investors first and foremost aggressively and in an antagonistic way. No i am not ignoring the part played in this by other parties most notably the CCC they all have a case to answer but the question was about our owners.

SISU gambled when they bought in and made glaring errors (lack of due diligence and not breaking the lease when they could have demanded it), they gambled when they took us to the administration they set up (it very nearly worked was a clever plan to break the lease but had unforeseen repercussions) gambled when they took us to Sixfields and made glaring miscalculations, in my opinion gambled with the EC case and move to Birmingham (i accept not just their doing).................... have they learnt anything since other than better PR ? History does seem to keep repeating itself

For years they have gone on about the need for better income and our own stadium. Not once have they detailed a plan, a strategy, the costs or given a straight answer on the subject. Just trotted the same lines out to the fans expecting them to simply believe it. There is still no believable explanation as to how CCFC returns to Coventry. Disrespected their main customers on many occasions on this and other matters. Alienated many by being less than honest or transparent, which puts future generations interest at risk

They are owners is really the best i can say for them.......... they have some good points, one of the gambles could have worked and very nearly did............ but against that they have many actions, decisions, disputes etc that simply have left the club at risk, deeper in debt and short of the stability a permanent home brings. Despite this the team has now begun to achieve consistently better - how much is down to SISU though? (some but not really that much, its more to do with the club staff & players making the best of what they have got).

Bad owners - Yes not unlike many others though
 
Last edited:

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
It would be unfair to simply say SISU have been all bad. There are things like cost control that they have improved, the club is more stable, recovering not just from previous owners instability but also the instability SISU had a large part in creating under their tenure

Day to day running of the club has improved recently as has the communication and you would have credit SISU with input in to that but the idea that the club is living within its means is a fallacy. It isn't, over the financial three years 2016 to 2018 they had to put a net £1.17m into the club to keep it afloat. The alternative to not meeting the day to day running costs was insolvency. SISU have been bank of last resort, otherwise CCFC could not have paid its bills. The club is not profitable in each of the financial years to date under their stewardship. Indeed even if you exclude the interest payment it still isn't profitable in 2018 despite £973K in player sales.

Since the administration in 2013 when the deficit on the balance sheet was zero they have put the club (Otium) in to a deeper financial hole of over 19m. Since 2008 SBS&L Group shows total losses of £55m with SISU in control. Hardly prudent management of a club with few assets and restricted income streams and off the back of a clean slate regarding previous owners.

If self sufficiency (which we have not achieved) is such a good idea (and it is) then why didn't they do it from the start. Gambling with the club is not prudent or clever, just the same as it isn't for any other club or owners. They could at the start have come in and said "we saved the club but now we need to safeguard its future" they didn't they gambled until they ran out of money. Running out of money is probably what drove this so far failed drive to self sufficiency, it was not the plan because the plan was to have been long gone by now.

There is no evidence of admin fees being paid to SISU btw.

On the pitch things have improved recently and i think this clouds peoples memory. Things are looking good now but lets see where we are next May. But under SISU we have been relegated twice, achieved our lowest position in 50 years (and it could have been worse), had more bad seasons than good against which we had one cup win and one promotion.

Off the pitch, SISU have made numerous decisions that have focused on their investors needs not the strategy needed for a successful sustainable club. CCFC became a tool in a high stakes game and is still at risk. A business cannot operate in a bubble "of my way or the highway" it must develop positive relationships and it hasn't with key stake holders in Coventry. Yes there has to be forceful dialogue the owners must fight the clubs corner but SISU fight for their investors first and foremost aggressively and in an antagonistic way. No i am not ignoring the part played in this by other parties most notably the CCC they all have a case to answer but the question was about our owners.

SISU gambled when they bought in and made glaring errors (lack of due diligence and not breaking the lease when they could have demanded it), they gambled when they took us to the administration they set up (it very nearly worked was a clever plan to break the lease but had unforeseen repercussions) gambled when they took us to Sixfields and made glaring miscalculations, in my opinion gambled with the EC case and move to Birmingham (i accept not just their doing).................... have they learnt anything since other than better PR ? History does seem to keep repeating itself

For years they have gone on about the need for better income and our own stadium. Not once have they detailed a plan, a strategy, the costs or given a straight answer on the subject. Just trotted the same lines out to the fans expecting them to simply believe it. Disrespected their main customers on many occasions on this and other matters. Alienated many, which puts future generations interest at risk

They are owners is really the best i can say for them.......... they have some good points, one of the gambles could have worked and very nearly did............ but against that they have many actions, decisions, disputes etc that simply have left the club at risk, deeper in debt and short of the stability a permanent home brings. Despite this the team has now begun to achieve consistently better - how much is down to SISU though? (some but not really that much its more to do with the club staff & members making the best of what they have got).

Good owners - NO not unlike many others though

What do you think their endgame is/will be?
 

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
It would be unfair to simply say SISU have been all bad. There are things like cost control that they have improved, the club is more stable, recovering not just from previous owners instability but also the instability SISU had a large part in creating under their tenure

Day to day running of the club has improved recently as has the communication and you would have credit SISU with input in to that but the idea that the club is living within its means is a fallacy. It isn't, over the financial three years 2016 to 2018 they had to put a net £1.17m into the club to keep it afloat. The alternative to not meeting the day to day running costs was insolvency. SISU have been bank of last resort, otherwise CCFC could not have paid its bills. The club is not profitable in each of the financial years to date under their stewardship. Indeed even if you exclude the interest payment it still isn't profitable in 2018 despite £973K in player sales.

Since the administration in 2013 when the deficit on the balance sheet was zero they have put the club (Otium) in to a deeper financial hole of over 19m. Since 2008 SBS&L Group shows total losses of £55m with SISU in control. Hardly prudent management of a club with few assets and restricted income streams and off the back of a clean slate regarding previous owners.

If self sufficiency (which we have not achieved) is such a good idea (and it is) then why didn't they do it from the start. Gambling with the club is not prudent or clever, just the same as it isn't for any other club or owners. They could at the start have come in and said "we saved the club but now we need to safeguard its future" they didn't they gambled until they ran out of money. Running out of money is probably what drove this so far failed drive to self sufficiency, it was not the plan because the plan was to have been long gone by now.

There is no evidence of admin fees being paid to SISU btw.

On the pitch things have improved recently and i think this clouds peoples memory. Things are looking good now but lets see where we are next May. But under SISU we have been relegated twice, achieved our lowest position in 50 years (and it could have been worse), had more bad seasons than good against which we had one cup win and one promotion.

Off the pitch, SISU have made numerous decisions that have focused on their investors needs not the strategy needed for a successful sustainable club. CCFC became a tool in a high stakes game and is still at risk. A business cannot operate in a bubble "of my way or the highway" it must develop positive relationships and it hasn't with key stake holders in Coventry. Yes there has to be forceful dialogue the owners must fight the clubs corner but SISU fight for their investors first and foremost aggressively and in an antagonistic way. No i am not ignoring the part played in this by other parties most notably the CCC they all have a case to answer but the question was about our owners.

SISU gambled when they bought in and made glaring errors (lack of due diligence and not breaking the lease when they could have demanded it), they gambled when they took us to the administration they set up (it very nearly worked was a clever plan to break the lease but had unforeseen repercussions) gambled when they took us to Sixfields and made glaring miscalculations, in my opinion gambled with the EC case and move to Birmingham (i accept not just their doing).................... have they learnt anything since other than better PR ? History does seem to keep repeating itself

For years they have gone on about the need for better income and our own stadium. Not once have they detailed a plan, a strategy, the costs or given a straight answer on the subject. Just trotted the same lines out to the fans expecting them to simply believe it. Disrespected their main customers on many occasions on this and other matters. Alienated many by being lees than honest or transparent, which puts future generations interest at risk

They are owners is really the best i can say for them.......... they have some good points, one of the gambles could have worked and very nearly did............ but against that they have many actions, decisions, disputes etc that simply have left the club at risk, deeper in debt and short of the stability a permanent home brings. Despite this the team has now begun to achieve consistently better - how much is down to SISU though? (some but not really that much its more to do with the club staff & members making the best of what they have got).

Good owners - NO not unlike many others though
I thought Management fees show up in the accounts?

I know we haven’t paid them but hasn’t this added to the debt
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
What do you think their endgame is/will be?

either proceeds from ensuing legal cases if successful in EC claim or some kind of settlement and then sale of the team sufficient to clear their actual losses not the paper ones
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Sale of the team as in fire sale of players or sale of the club at a price?

They would want to sell at a decent price but it will depend on circumstances at the time so could be either in the end
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
They’ve obviously put money in. If they hadn’t we’d have done a Bury before Bury. But I’ve read that everything they’ve put in has been classed as a loan to the club. Is that right?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
They’ve obviously put money in. If they hadn’t we’d have done a Bury before Bury. But I’ve read that everything they’ve put in has been classed as a loan to the club. Is that right?

Yes or converted in to preference shares which are non voting shares that act as a form of loan in simple terms.

One of the loans (£6m) attract interest at 19.5% APR another £1.8m at 11.4% APR and a third £1.2m at 14.8% APR. Interest added to the debt each year so far

The preference shares are accruing dividends i think at 9% of their face value each year but cant be paid until there are distributable profits
 

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