Or you could argue that they were just ticking time bombs that would have blown up at some point in the future...
Which is also just as plausible
Two big ones spring to mind. The church/centre and the Orlando gay nightclub. Combined I’m sure that’s around 100 dead.
I mean ultimately in the states gun crime / shootings is a much bigger problem for them... But that's alot to do with legislation and law
I think the figures pre and post Iraq prove that's not the case, (though maybe the Russian incursion into Afghanistan was a major driver as well).
Though as I said on another post, even if there's consensus that it was, it doesn't go anyway to providing a solution to what is going on now.
Also worth mentioning that ISIS killed 2 university students in Afghanistan yesterday, that's how much they love their fellow Muslims.
It's not really at all about isis being the dark side of the religion is it tbh...
There are 3 separate types of Muslims, 2 being the main ones Shia and sunni and they don't particularly like each other at all... And people have died because of this which is nothing to do with groups like isis... It's a religion already fractured within
what was the church one? You're right about the Orlando one, forgot about that.
yeah, I don't think the two issues should be conflated.
but is that schism behind attacks like the one in Vienna? I don't believe it is. Or were you referring to the Afghanistan attack?
Muslims as a whole appear to be the most loyal to their religion and its scripture... This is concerning when the scripture is actually looked at.
Then obviously you have to distinguish between hard line Muslims and pacifists
The problem is terrorism in Islamic countries goes back much further than isis, and terrorism in Europe goes back further than 9/11 or the Iraq war...
I'm Doing my best to stay in line today
The thing is, there’s literally billions of Muslims world wide. And those you call “pacifists” are clearly the massive majority. So you’ve cast your net and only caught a minority it suggests you’ve cast your net too wide.
If it was just Islam itself that’s the problem, why do most adherents not take up arms?
I think the real problem in Europe is Internet radicalisation TBH. There’s a masculinity and mental health crisis that’s radicalising young men all over the political spectrum. So many of these terrorists aren’t massively religious they’ve just spent too long watching ISIS propaganda online.
There may have been terrorism before but this type of disconnected line wolf stuff has definitely risen with the internet the last 20 years.
Muslims as a whole appear to be the most loyal to their religion and its scripture... This is concerning when the scripture is actually looked at.
Then obviously you have to distinguish between hard line Muslims and pacifists
The problem is terrorism in Islamic countries goes back much further than isis, and terrorism in Europe goes back further than 9/11 or the Iraq war...
I'm Doing my best to stay in line today
I dont want to argue, and my best wishes are with the people in Vienna ultimately
Fucking cunts. Vienna is a great city. Big increase in attacks recently, I can't see why Austria is a target though.
In town the other day (I live in Brum these days) there were a few religion stalls pushing their “message” outside the bullring.
One stall appeared to be hard line Islam blaring music and messages bordering on IS propaganda.
Next to them was a stall called (something along the lines of) Friends in Islam and with livery promoting peace in the West etc.
Both Muslim obviously and both giving away free Qua-rans.
There was also the Christian stall with a guy barking out passages from the bible.
All of it is a waste of an afternoon to me (staunch atheist) but shows the possible divide on our own doorstep.
You won't get an argument from me about the Internet and social mediaI agree.
I dont agree that the huge majority are pacifist... I think they are in Europe, especially the ones born here... But again that ultimately goes back to European values and the way we live our lives as opposed to Muslim majority countries
Does that hold up though? Indonesia is the most Muslim country in the world and it’s hardly a failed state. Looking at this it’s pretty similar to the US, especially when you factor in poverty.
Indonesia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
Intentional homicide rate, Crime levels, Murder rate, Murder rate per million people, Guns per 100 residents and 52 More Interesting Facts and Statswww.nationmaster.com
Albania is one of the most Muslim countries but looks like most European countries.
I think you’ve got to separate the standard stuff that leads to violent states (resource rich, poor civic infrastructure) from religion. Most Muslim countries are African or Middle Eastern and we know why those areas are fucked up.
I agree to an extent.
I always attached hard-line religion to education and poverty until I realised how fucking religious alot of Americans were
I was reading a really interesting thing on America and it’s love of nonsense.
I agree to an extent.
I always attached hard-line religion to education and poverty until I realised how fucking religious alot of Americans were
America is as religious as Britain was I imagine about 500 years ago
Would never have a godless president over there (or so the saying goes)
And that casino oneTwo big ones spring to mind. The church/centre and the Orlando gay nightclub. Combined I’m sure that’s around 100 dead.
Again not to argue but it’s something I admire so much in our grown up society. The ability to allow someone to shout at the top of their lungs something that I would spend my life campaigning against. It’s called freedom of speech. It has limits of course but I don’t know where the line must be drawn. And it comes with responsibility it shouldn’t be without limits but society should decide them and be consistent.I mean ultimately the guy ringing the bell telling us all the rapture is coming is a fruit loop, but far less likely to walk into a city centre and shoot people... Just harmless.
Same goes for the muslim on the stall next to the isis careers centre... Why don't these people get shut down and arrested?
It's the little things like that, that baffle me and I'd imagine many of us
And that casino one
Malaysia, Singapore both Muslim countriesDoes that hold up though? Indonesia is the most Muslim country in the world and it’s hardly a failed state. Looking at this it’s pretty similar to the US, especially when you factor in poverty.
Indonesia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
Intentional homicide rate, Crime levels, Murder rate, Murder rate per million people, Guns per 100 residents and 52 More Interesting Facts and Statswww.nationmaster.com
Albania is one of the most Muslim countries but looks like most European countries.
I think you’ve got to separate the standard stuff that leads to violent states (resource rich, poor civic infrastructure) from religion. Most Muslim countries are African or Middle Eastern and we know why those areas are fucked up.
And that casino one
It was partly the point I was making to evo about uk and USA. It certainly wasn’t an Islamic one. Lots died though and it was probably terrifyingWasn’t an Islamic one. Me and the missus were at Mandalay Bay a couple of months before. Frightening.
The America part.. Was ofcourse light Hearted poking.. RelaxIgnoring the fact that Britain didn't exist 500 years ago, that's uhhhh quite a spicy take. You're literally talking pre-Reformation, Henry VIII-era levels of religiosity. Americans are a surprisingly religious bunch in places, but in fairness most of them would agree that the earth travels around the sun.
Or you could argue that they were just ticking time bombs that would have blown up at some point in the future...
Which is also just as plausible
Lederhosen?I wonder what Austria have done to deserve it?
Again not to argue but it’s something I admire so much in our grown up society. The ability to allow someone to shout at the top of their lungs something that I would spend my life campaigning against. It’s called freedom of speech. It has limits of course but I don’t know where the line must be drawn. And it comes with responsibility it shouldn’t be without limits but society should decide them and be consistent.
That's much better than saying Islam is not a peaceful religion.Muslims as a whole appear to be the most loyal to their religion and its scripture... This is concerning when the scripture is actually looked at.
Then obviously you have to distinguish between hard line Muslims and pacifists
The problem is terrorism in Islamic countries goes back much further than isis, and terrorism in Europe goes back further than 9/11 or the Iraq war...
I'm Doing my best to stay in line today
I dont want to argue, and my best wishes are with the people in Vienna ultimately
That's much better than saying Islam is not a peaceful religion.
There are extreme elements within Islam and that is the problem that needs to be confronted.
The America part.. Was ofcourse light Hearted poking.. Relax
You won't get an argument from me about the Internet and social mediaI agree.
I dont agree that the huge majority are pacifist, I think that's a massive over estimate .. I think they are in Europe, especially the ones born here... But again that ultimately goes back to European values and the way we live our lives as opposed to Muslim majority countries.
OK i take it back they’ve had a few.
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