There's been that perception for much longer than recent years.Those polls are absolutely mad. I guess it shows how well Farage and the Mail etc have got their message across.
Think public perception of immigration versus the reality has been wrong for decades. High profile cases will lead people to tar the majority with the same brush.Those polls are absolutely mad. I guess it shows how well Farage and the Mail etc have got their message across.
Think public perception of immigration versus the reality has been wrong for decades. High profile cases will lead people to tar the majority with the same brush.
Can’t ever point this out without being called patronising though.Public perception on pretty much everything is wrong. It’s one of many reasons why referendums are such a bad idea. We pay Polticians to understand stuff for a reason.
British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows
Research shows public opinion often deviates from facts on key social issues including crime, benefit fraud and immigrationwww.independent.co.uk
As someone else said, I applaud you just being honest in admitting you don’t want ANY immigrants here (the use of “we’re in front” in your post is an eye-opener). But surely you’re in dreamland if you think the country will somehow save money by enforcing a system that keeps all immigrants, legal or illegal, away from our borders? The money you’re earmarking for housing would be frittered away on Heathrow detainment camps and gunboats in the Irish Sea within days.I get that, but the point was about migration in general. The often quoted stat higher up here was how the illegal migration was only 4%. Can't have it both ways. I'm saying stop the 96% and even if the illegal creeps to 10% with overstayed visas, then of current we're 90% in front, it really isn't the biggest issue. Our services and housing are creeking.
Can’t ever point this out without being called patronising though.
The best and the brightest tend not to stand for Parliament.I mean I’m part of the public. I too don’t have the time or resources to properly understand stuff beyond chatting shit on the Internet. Worryingly many MPs seems to ignore that in favour of the same social and other media that makes the public so misinformed.
I've never understood how they move between and head up departments so easily. Ideally, there should be people with actual industry expertise and experience in those roles.The best and the brightest tend not to stand for Parliament.
I've never understood how they move between and head up departments so easily. Ideally, there should be people with actual industry expertise and experience in those roles.
Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.Of course. So just ban students from coming here to study, ban professional athletes coming here to play sport, ban qualified professionals coming here to do research, to work in industry etc etc.
Make Britain look as unwelcoming and inward looking as possible for a few decades as you said, and by the end of it all will be well. I’m sure that tourism won’t take a hit either.
The best and the brightest tend not to stand for Parliament.
An ageing population + no migration would be a long-term recipe for disaster.Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.
We can't keep just saying oh but we need more. If that continues we'll always need more, it will never repair.
In what way is it and eye opener? Not sure if you've interpreted what I mean wrongly or if I've made a mistake. Genuinely not flaming, I'd really like to understand.As someone else said, I applaud you just being honest in admitting you don’t want ANY immigrants here (the use of “we’re in front” in your post is an eye-opener). But surely you’re in dreamland if you think the country will somehow save money by enforcing a system that keeps all immigrants, legal or illegal, away from our borders? The money you’re earmarking for housing would be frittered away on Heathrow detainment camps and gunboats in the Irish Sea within days.
Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.
We can't keep just saying oh but we need more. If that continues we'll always need more, it will never repair.
To me it seems a short term problem. Once that ageing population dies off, there will be less people with more services available and the equilibrium restored. As in supply and demand, care staff eould currently need to be paid more to make it more attractive, as that changes, it would be back in line. A bit like plumbers are currently.An ageing population + no migration would be a long-term recipe for disaster.
Again, I've already said I'd happily pay more tax if it was guaranteed to be used in the right area.The economic model relies on more people.
The system we have means that the taxes of working people pay for the care of the elderly (and the young but they pay off in the future)
More people are living longer (yay) and the longer you live the more expensive your care gets, plus you need pension, housing etc.
This was fine when we had a larger working age population, but now we’ve stopped having kids and the baby boom generation are well into retirement we don’t have enough taxpayers to fund the care of the elderly.
So either you magic up a way for people to start fucking, ideally 18 years ago.
Or you cut pensions and care to the bone and watch the elderly (who vote!) die in the streets.
Or you whack taxes up massively on the remaining workers (except you’ve got to promise not to do that to get elected in the first place).
Or you bring ready made workers in from elsewhere that you didn’t have to pay to educate, who can work now, and who you can worry about getting old later.
There is no economic model that doesn’t rely on growth.
Again, I've already said I'd happily pay more tax if it was guaranteed to be used in the right area.
I suppose I mean this suggestion that immigration can essentially be reduced to a game of sorts, where less immigration = “we’re in front ” and more immigration presumably = “we’re behind”In what way is it and eye opener? Not sure if you've interpreted what I mean wrongly or if I've made a mistake. Genuinely not flaming, I'd really like to understand.
To clarify what I meant by it, the population of the country already here, not you, me etc
Ok fair enough ta. Yes perhaps a little raw, although it is in line with how I intended.I suppose I mean this suggestion that immigration can essentially be reduced to a game of sorts, where less immigration = “we’re in front ” and more immigration presumably = “we’re behind”
Ok fair enough ta. Yes perhaps a little raw, although it is in line with how I intended.
Looking forward to reform trying and failing and then blaming EuropeThat's not a bad idea tbf.
Im sure if the will was there, we could temporarily stop all immigration, (the boats are just the tip of the iceberg)
The issue i see is that I really dont think the government have the will.
A big chunk of our migration figures include students.Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.
We can't keep just saying oh but we need more. If that continues we'll always need more, it will never repair.
As I said in the quoted post, I'm referring to net migration, not gross.A big chunk of our migration figures include students.
Good point on Ireland tbf, we share a land border and posting British troops on it may be…unwise.As someone else said, I applaud you just being honest in admitting you don’t want ANY immigrants here (the use of “we’re in front” in your post is an eye-opener). But surely you’re in dreamland if you think the country will somehow save money by enforcing a system that keeps all immigrants, legal or illegal, away from our borders? The money you’re earmarking for housing would be frittered away on Heathrow detainment camps and gunboats in the Irish Sea within days.
Net student migration was 250,000 last year.As I said in the quoted post, I'm referring to net migration, not gross.
What the old adage? "Politicians are wannabe celebrities without the looks."The best and the brightest tend not to stand for Parliament.
Not sure I'm understanding what you want. You've said let zero people in but tourists and students are fine? How do you make sure they leave the country?Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.
We can't keep just saying oh but we need more. If that continues we'll always need more, it will never repair.
My next question was going to be how do we stop services collapsing? We made a small change to visas for care workers and within a matter of weeks the care system nearly collapsed and it had to be 'temporarily' reversed.To me it seems a short term problem. Once that ageing population dies off, there will be less people with more services available and the equilibrium restored.
Why do you presume Reform would fail?Looking forward to reform trying and failing and then blaming Europe
Literally everyone has been waiting for Labour to fail from day 1 and is enjoying making it seem that things have never been worseWhy do you presume Reform would fail?
And what's really bizarre is you actually look forward to watching them fail !!!
It never ceases to amaze me that people would want a government to fail, this is our country ffs, surely you'd want to see any government succeed, and make the country a better place for all.
Personally I dont give a fuck who's in office, as long as they do a good and fair job for all.
We've had 14 years of a piss poor conservative government, and now Labour look even worse (if that's even possible)
Surely to God there has to be another solution, either Reform or whoever, but something drastic has to change.
Why do you presume Reform would fail?
And what's really bizarre is you actually look forward to watching them fail !!!
It never ceases to amaze me that people would want a government to fail, this is our country ffs, surely you'd want to see any government succeed, and make the country a better place for all.
Personally I dont give a fuck who's in office, as long as they do a good and fair job for all.
We've had 14 years of a piss poor conservative government, and now Labour look even worse (if that's even possible)
Surely to God there has to be another solution, either Reform or whoever, but something drastic has to change.
It doesn’t ensure any are returned and its legality is already being questioned
I think if you look at the people involved you would rate the chances of them 'failing', however you measure that in a government, if they ever came to power.Why do you presume Reform would fail?
Tourism and students bring income. Although if what BSB suggests that last year net student migration was 250k, then that accounts for over half of the year's net and I assume goes against the help that's needed gor caring and the NHS which is why everyone is saying we need more people. I doubt they're paying high student fees and working hard for 3 years to wipe the arses of our pensioners.Not sure I'm understanding what you want. You've said let zero people in but tourists and students are fine? How do you make sure they leave the country?
My next question was going to be how do we stop services collapsing? We made a small change to visas for care workers and within a matter of weeks the care system nearly collapsed and it had to be 'temporarily' reversed.
But it seems you plan is that the generation currently in old age, or rapidly approaching it, have to live out there years in pain and suffering because there's nobody to look after them and hope that it somehow sorts itself out by the time the following generation is in need of care.
So if you're letting tourists and students in how are you preventing overstays? Seems to me you'd be reducing legal migration but seeing a huge increase in illegal migration which by definition are people you don't know are here and haven't passed any checks.Tourism and students bring income. Although if what BSB suggests that last year net student migration was 250k, then that accounts for over half of the year's net and I assume goes against the help that's needed gor caring and the NHS which is why everyone is saying we need more people. I doubt they're paying high student fees and working hard for 3 years to wipe the arses of our pensioners.
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